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11 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

As i see it we can't sustain a top 6 challenge with our current midfield. Mid table finish for me is what i expect with the squad we have.

Agreed

I doubt anyone expects Top 6, why would you we're Bristol City FFS but it's been a good start and there's still a long season ahead of us with some decent young players coming through the ranks.  

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Let's take a breath.... Second in the league

One genuinely bad performance. Let's not throw the toys out yet.

It's a new coaching team with bags of experience behind DH..they'll earn their corn over the next few matches. Don't panic 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Matthew me said:

Let's take a breath.... Second in the league

One genuinely bad performance. Let's not throw the toys out yet.

It's a new coaching team with bags of experience behind DH..they'll earn their corn over the next few matches. Don't panic 

 

 

 

Yeh but where’s the fun in not overreacting 😂

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16 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Don't think dropping Moore after that mistake would achieve anything whoever was available.

Do something similar Saturday you might have a case.

First big test for Holden he's set his stall out on this formation getting rid of Eliasson with no other out and out wide players is where we are. 

As i see it we can't sustain a top 6 challenge with our current midfield. Mid table finish for me is what i expect with the squad we have.

 Yep I think it will be interesting to see how we cope without any obvious winger/flare options other than O'Dowda to change shape since shipping out Eliasson and Palmer. I don't blame Holden and neither might of been in his hands , a player like Adomah(but not him) wouldn't of been a bad bet.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Lose on Saturday and I guarantee there'll be people on here wanting Holden sacked.

I would go one further and say that if we’re trailing at half time there will be people on here wanting his head

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3 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Lose on Saturday and I guarantee there'll be people on here wanting Holden sacked.

If anyone does that , they need to be immediately banned and registered as Gas heads . They're better suited to the other side of the city 

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11 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Lose on Saturday and I guarantee there'll be people on here wanting Holden sacked.

Not unless he starts doing stupid stuff like over tweeking the side and not making changes or a different plan. I think if it was another terrible performance and mindset like tonight for a couple more games then yes, there probably would be.

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6 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I like this. Clearly not happy with what he's seen and no attempt to make excuses or try and pretend that it was better than everybody thinks it was.

Yep I like that. No messing, not happy and not prepared to try and justify the performance with pointless excuses. He looks pretty pissed off to be honest!! 

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39 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Its a worry when Wells a top striker in this league was completely off it as were many others. A huge worry is how similar this performance looked to many last season under LJ. 

Strikes me that Wells is very much a mood player, when everything’s going his way he’s fantastic, when it’s not he just looks completely disinterested and half hearted. Semenyo did more in his 20 mins than Wells did in 70 tonight and not for this first time. For all the grabbing of badge on the Masion Bet posters I still get the feeling that he didn’t really want to come here, and I honestly would not be surprised if a move was manufactured for him in Jan.

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16 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I like this. Clearly not happy with what he's seen and no attempt to make excuses or try and pretend that it was better than everybody thinks it was.

Honesty is far better than the bullshit we'd have got from LJ, and he says "we" which his predecessor couldn't do except when winning.

Can we analyse the cause and do something about it?  We'll see.

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12 minutes ago, Kibs said:

Yep I like that. No messing, not happy and not prepared to try and justify the performance with pointless excuses. He looks pretty pissed off to be honest!! 

Yes he does. Very much like me! No psycho babble analysis. We were second best they are all in tomorrow!

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We looked flat whereas Boro pressed liked their lives depended on it. 
 

A draw would have been a fair result no one could argue if it had ended up 0-0 or 1-1.
 

For those who complained about our gamesmanship v Barnsley I said we should play fair when officials and opponents play fair with us.

IMHO it was a stonewall penalty for TB  and Boro time wasted and fouled throughout the match. 

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9 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

Let’s be brutally honest here, we have had an outstanding start to the season and hopefully we can get back to winning ways Saturday....but does anyone genuinely think Holden will be the man to take us to a top 6 finish? seriously?

I do actually. We have makings of a good squad. When fully fit, somewhat well-balanced. 

Two or three really good keepers. 
With Mawson or Baker fit we have a really good back 3. Although without one of them then the back three works a lot less well and not sure how suited Vyner or Moore are to a two. 
hunt playing well. Dasilva to come in. 
We have a lot of central midfield options to go through to work out who works well together. We already know it’s likely to be Bakinson plus someone. And given his stats since restart, Patterson is in there too. That’s progress compared to last few seasons of midfield roundabout. 
Williams and Walsh to come. Williams we know can play at this level. Walsh we think could be very good. O’Dowda I can see having good season. And I still think there might be something to come from Nagy or HNM. So a lot of options to try. 
And up top we are fine. 

So when I look at other squads we are good. Watford have their ‘too good for champ’ players to come back that they didn’t sell. Bournemouth will fully click at some point but aren’t great up front. Norwich are improving fast and pukki really is too good for champ. Cardiff bought well. Forest have good squad. Reading have momentum. 

Who else?

Under LJ on the streaks we would often steal points playing really badly. In this run, we have looked good for large parts of games. So with all that, I remain really positive and am happy to say I think we could be top six. Seriously. 

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7 hours ago, Nibor said:

Honesty is far better than the bullshit we'd have got from LJ, and he says "we" which his predecessor couldn't do except when winning.

Can we analyse the cause and do something about it?  We'll see.

Agreed. The Johnson family trait of saying “We” and even “I” when it’s hunky dory and “they” when it isn’t won’t be missed..........like they thought everyone listening is so stupid they wouldn’t notice it.

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10 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Shock horror, novice manager, novice player make mistakes. Shit happens but hopefully they learn from it.

Absolutely no surprise a manager of Warnock's experience was able to get something from tonight. 

I thought the idea of the two ex England coaches were to give him the experienced support.So alleviating some of the lack of experience of Holden. Obviously never worked last night. 

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10 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Did anyone seriously expect us to be in top six this season?

This was always going to be a season for regrouping whoever came in as Head Coach 

Think in terms of three seasons.

 

Have I missed something here ,SL and me are expecting a top 6 finish anything less and Dean will be shown the door.

After a protracted interview process I can't imagine a give me 3 years line would have secured the job,( judge me after 4 transfer windows anyone)

Let not rewrite history this season is all about a top 6 finish

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10 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Well that's our first bad league performance all season so I don't see why not.

That was our first game with 90 poor minutes. 

1st half v Cov was poor

1st half v Wednesday was poor

Outplayed for much of the Forest game

1st half v Barnsley was poor

But... this is the Championship and you don't see many dominant performances for a full 90 because the teams are so evenly matched. It's more about winning key moments to gain the edge.

It's very knee-jerk for some posters (not you JD obvs) to be lamenting the end of the world after one defeat though. If we get 3 points from Swansea our start to the season looks spectacular again.

I think the biggest disappointment was that the side have shown us in long spells this season what they're capable of, and to a man they failed to show even a glimpse of that.

It was also frustrating because Boro's play was sloppy and wasteful too. They were organised but a bit of quality could have given them serious problems.

But had Moore not dozed off for a moment, the narrative would have probably been about an ugly 0-0. 

Swansea will be a good next test for us and it should be a good game.

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It's not the defeat that hurts. Over a lifetime, a team wins one, draws one and loses one.

It's the manner of defeat that is seriously concerning.

Monotonous passes across the back without any pace. Easy for Boro to press.

Little creativity in midfield. Did we have a midfield there?

No service to front men except long balls lumped anywhere in the vain hope that we could get lucky.

Holden came in promising a more attacking style of play. This was back to the wasted two previous seasons of Johnson. And how did DH hope to change the game by replacing Martin and Wells with like for like?

So what's different? We aren't going anywhere like this.

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13 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

It's not the defeat that hurts. Over a lifetime, a team wins one, draws one and loses one.

It's the manner of defeat that is seriously concerning.

Monotonous passes across the back without any pace. Easy for Boro to press.

Little creativity in midfield. Did we have a midfield there?

No service to front men except long balls lumped anywhere in the vain hope that we could get lucky.

Holden came in promising a more attacking style of play. This was back to the wasted two previous seasons of Johnson. And how did DH hope to change the game by replacing Martin and Wells with like for like?

So what's different? We aren't going anywhere like this.

It was weird because the players had 70% of their usual energy. 10% of their usual quality on the ball. 5% threat going forward. No surprise we got 0% of the points!

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

That was our first game with 90 poor minutes. 

1st half v Cov was poor

1st half v Wednesday was poor

Outplayed for much of the Forest game

1st half v Barnsley was poor

But... this is the Championship and you don't see many dominant performances for a full 90 because the teams are so evenly matched. It's more about winning key moments to gain the edge.

It's very knee-jerk for some posters (not you JD obvs) to be lamenting the end of the world after one defeat though. If we get 3 points from Swansea our start to the season looks spectacular again.

I think the biggest disappointment was that the side have shown us in long spells this season what they're capable of, and to a man they failed to show even a glimpse of that.

It was also frustrating because Boro's play was sloppy and wasteful too. They were organised but a bit of quality could have given them serious problems.

But had Moore not dozed off for a moment, the narrative would have probably been about an ugly 0-0. 

Swansea will be a good next test for us and it should be a good game.

Yeah I kind of mean over the 90 minutes. Its probably the one game we deserved to lose. Arguably forest  game, but then we did play well first half. 

Thinking about it Boro didn't really have many chances last night. And we did have one sitter and a clear pen. No doubt they were the better side though.

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9 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah I kind of mean over the 90 minutes. Its probably the one game we deserved to lose. Arguably forest  game, but then we did play well first half. 

Thinking about it Boro didn't really have many chances last night. And we did have one sitter and a clear pen. No doubt they were the better side though.

I think Boro went close twice with balls across the 6 yard box that the attacker sliced wide when a solid contact would have been a certain goal. You could also credit the duress they were under from our defenders perhaps. 

Even Holden admitted we were 2nd best in all areas so I don't think that's a controversial view.

But yeah it's our worst game so far (perhaps bar a Villa defeat with mitigating circumstances), and if we manage 4 pts from our next 2 games we'll soon forget this one.

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The main concern I have with Dean is reacting to issues on the pitch and whether he will make the tough calls LJ did not.

Tonight worryingly was the same trend.

All playing poorly; Bakinson, Rowe, Hunt, Paterson all struggling and due to this; Andi, Chris and Nahki seeing none of the ball - what shall I do?

I know - replace the front 2 in the vain hope we suddenly can suddenly string two passes together and put them in.

This panicky, non-sensical response was a hallmark of LJ and I hoped not to see it again but alas.

Brunt for Bakinson and in the strange absence of JD, COD for Rowe would have given Colin much more to think about - he had to change nothing in his game plan to combat our changes.

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3 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think Boro went close twice with balls across the 6 yard box that the attacker sliced wide when a solid contact would have been a certain goal. You could also credit the duress they were under from our defenders perhaps. 

Even Holden admitted we were 2nd best in all areas so I don't think that's a controversial view.

But yeah it's our worst game so far (perhaps bar a Villa defeat with mitigating circumstances), and if we manage 4 pts from our next 2 games we'll soon forget this one.

Still feel more gutted about the ending to the Barnsley game. After playing so well 2nd half to be seconds away from victory.

Last night was just a bad performance.

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Changes rely on options, we don't have too many at the moment. 

CENTRE DEFENCE
Mawson has to be a massive doubt, Baker long term, Rowe unconvincing, so the only left footed player with defensive experience is Brunt.
WINGBACKS
Be a big call to change both, I'd give DaSilva a start, Rowe is great to have on the bench. Probably play Sessignon in the following game just because I don't like too many changes in one go.
MIDFIELD
Every week, Walsh is a week or two away. Williams was training on grass, which we know means little. HNM & Nagy must have upset Holden somehow, which leaves Brunt. 
ATTACK
Wells and Martin weren't great, but absolutely no service. I'd give Fam a game and give Martin a rest .

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