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IGNORED

End this Pato / Weimann midfield combo madness NOW!!


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4 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Yep, don't think we needed the double subs up top. Midfield is where it was lost tonight. The only time we could play from the middle was when Boro decided to see the game out and sit back.

This, Why do you see this time and time again. Said manager (mostly city managers) brings on two forwards when we've created absolutely zero chances for said previous forwards, and then they wonder why there were no improvements after new forwards came on!!!!!!! 😖😖🙄🙄🙄🙄

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Bakinson had his worst performance for us so far.

Paterson was very poor and really not the game for him. Would rather have had O'Dowda in there who has more power and pace. Would have suited him I reckon more than Pato.

Thought Weimann was actually okay.

Wing backs were a problem for me tonight as well though.

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1 minute ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

This, Why do you see this time and time again. Said manager (mostly city managers) brings on two forwards when we've created absolutely zero chances for said previous forwards, and then they wonder why there were no improvements after new forwards came on!!!!!!! 😖😖🙄🙄🙄🙄

You're not saying Deano is emulating his predecessor are you?

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Yes, when they are on their game look decent, but Pattison in particular will go missing and leaves it all a bit light weight. Leaves Bakinson or Massengo or whoever so exposed. Just hope Williams and Walsh get back soon. 

Midfield blend was tonight and was last season the problem. Long term need 2 recognised midfield with either Pato or Weiman. Personally think Walsh, Bakinson and Williams would be my 3 though. Think Walsh could do the Pato bit and offer more aggression.

Interesting to see response on Saturday.

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Paterson has flashes of quality but disappears for large parts of the game and Weimann is a headless chicken who is rarely where you want him. Playing both of them together stops us playing through midfield and controlling any part of the game. I can’t wait until Walsh and Williams are fit. 

Edited by SuperRed
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1 minute ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

Cant just scapegoat Pato when the rest of the midfield and the team weren't up to standard tonight

I thought he was poor & Bakinson no better, Weimann kept going (he never stops) & was the only one of the 3 to even be 6/10.

I was really surprised by the double sub, which having already had to bring on Kalas, meant we couldn’t change it there. I would have brought on 1 of Famara or Antoine & kept the other sub back to freshen up the midfield.

We were poor all over the pitch tonight but worth remembering that if Moore hadn’t made a mistake that wouldn’t have looked out of place in park football, we would have drawn & although didn’t deserve much, had a good shout for a penalty, too.

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8 minutes ago, headhunter said:

You're not saying Deano is emulating his predecessor are you?

Dont mention the J word. How long do people think it will be before Deano extinguishes the ghost of.....? For me apart from the formations, all the games so far have still got (insert name here) written all over them. Hitting on the break home and away. Ball continually bypassing midfield. Poor possession stats and retention with the inability to string more than 4-5 passes together etc etc. Will it be when we see williams and walsh in midfield that things will truly begin to change?

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13 minutes ago, ray savino said:

Yes, when they are on their game look decent, but Pattison in particular will go missing and leaves it all a bit light weight. Leaves Bakinson or Massengo or whoever so exposed. Just hope Williams and Walsh get back soon. 

Midfield blend was tonight and was last season the problem. Long term need 2 recognised midfield with either Pato or Weiman. Personally think Walsh, Bakinson and Williams would be my 3 though. Think Walsh could do the Pato bit and offer more aggression.

Interesting to see response on Saturday.

Well it wouldn't be hard to offer more aggression than Pato. When the going gets tough he simply melts away and always has 

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14 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I thought he was poor & Bakinson no better, Weimann kept going (he never stops) & was the only one of the 3 to even be 6/10.

I was really surprised by the double sub, which having already had to bring on Kalas, meant we couldn’t change it there. I would have brought on 1 of Famara or Antoine & kept the other sub back to freshen up the midfield.

We were poor all over the pitch tonight but worth remembering that if Moore hadn’t made a mistake that wouldn’t have looked out of place in park football, we would have drawn & although didn’t deserve much, had a good shout for a penalty, too.

Agree, Boro did a job on our midfield 3, Weimann the only one close to getting into credit.  Morsy on Pato and then Howson and Saville picking up whoever out of Bakinson and Weimann was closest.  Robert’s sniffed around too.  They worked their nuts off, and physical too.

That meant the space was for Vyner and Mawson, and in our only brief spells of decent play it was Vyner moving into midfield.  But perhaps both weren’t courageous enough?

I still haven’t seen the goal...perhaps best not to.

Dean saying not tired, poor performances.

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28 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Bakinson had his worst performance for us so far.

Paterson was very poor and really not the game for him. Would rather have had O'Dowda in there who has more power and pace. Would have suited him I reckon more than Pato.

Thought Weimann was actually okay.

Wing backs were a problem for me tonight as well though.

Holden was keen to stress in an early interview that he viewed the system as a 3-5-2, not a 5-3-2 but it's all to easy to slip into the latter (which is just a horrible system IMO). 

Would much rather see Sessegnon/Dasilva or even O'Dowda but I've got a feeling he's reluctant to go with more attack-minded Wing Backs whilst we have what I would consider 2 relatively inexperienced players in the Back 3. 

 

Edited by Kibs
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1 minute ago, Kibs said:

Holden was keen to stress in an early interview that he viewed the system as a 3-5-2, not a 5-3-2 but it's all to easy to slip into the latter. 

Would much rather see Sessegnon/Dasilva or even O'Dowda but I've got a feeling he's reluctant to go with more attack-minded Wing Backs whilst we have what I would consider 2 relatively inexperienced players in the Back 3. 

 

Yep agree. I would have played Dasilva and Sessegnon tonight. Thing is though I think Dasilva is actually a fine defender. If he's fit then I don't understand why he isn't playing.

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I’ve always felt playing Weimann and Paterson left us a bit unbalanced. Right to persevere with it whilst winning, but probably time to change it up. I think ideally I’d play one of them not both.

Sounds like Joe Williams will give us a bit more natural balance in midfield with Bakinson. Hope we’ll get to see Walsh too before too long. 

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45 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

That was probably the worst midfield performance I’ve seen in a long time. All 3 couldn’t control or pass the ball? I mean, isn’t that a midfielder’s bread and butter?

 

Yes. Our new hero Tyreeq couldn’t find one of our players all night. Patterson was anonymous in the second half as was weimann. We didn’t find a single forward pass or look threatening all night, then I have to listen to people on radio Brizz moaning about the forwards. We didn’t get the ball forward, the forwards were not the problem. 
 

We got done by Warnock a high press and more intensity. We were languid at times by comparison losing the ball in awful positions, which led to the goal, and not finding our players. 
 

All a bit pony....Enter Taylor Moore to get robbed the same way we were being robbed all over the field. 
 

Apparently though it was all about Chris Martin and Nahki Wells according to some!

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40 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Problem is Dean obviously doesn't rate Nagy and Massengo and I suspect Walsh and Williams won't be back any time soon. So we are stuck with what we have 

Have they the longest short term injuries in history? Think we have bluffed our way through the opening games with this setup.

Swansea a really big game in the big scheme, tough game with our up coming fixtures lose on Saturday and i fear we could be in the bottom half come the end of November.

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DH can't win!!!

If he rotates and we lose, he would get hammered for being a tinkerman

He went with a team that's managed to keep us in the top two. No issue with his selection 

Calm down!.... I'm sure we will rotate a couple to allow for some rest. Fresh legs and competition for places, all good.

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1 hour ago, David Brent said:

Don’t anyone pretend they would’ve picked a different midfield 😂 Warnock and Middlesbrough did a job on us. It happens.

Defo would have personally. Pato out whose gone of the boil the last two, provided we're simply keeping Andi in for work rate; main reason he goes missing is he doesnt come deep enough to collect and lose his marker - leaves all the work to Bakinson to turn and distribute.

He (Pato) also has a veritable track record of never playing himself out of bad run.

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What's Ádám got to do to get on the bench, realistically? I bought this up during the game in the matchday thread, but it still bemuses me.

I get that Pato aand Weimann are ahead of him in the system, but to only have Brunt or O'Dowda as midfield options when centre midfield is neither of their natural positions, neither is it Pato nor Andi's, I can't get my head around.

He played relatively well in the international great, 4 games in 10ish days is harsh for the squad in general, even with the international break; and neither Paterson nor Andi really impacted on Staurday against Barnsley. Ádám's got a similar energy to Andi, but drops back more often takes repsonsibility, taking pressure away from the defence, which was a big issue for us today imo - it doesn't always work for him granted, but if Pato's being man-marked, we need someone who can carry the ball forward and distribute with pace. If there's any system he could work in, it's a three-man midfield.

On another note, I feel Semenyo deserves a start, we've improved a margin both time's he's come on in place of Well's, simply as he seems to have slightly better touch and ball control.

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Not convinced it was a high press tonight.  There were occasions where they triggered off of a poor pass or touch and pressed high, like the goal.  But in the main they squeezed the game as our defenders tried to play into midfield.

Im sure Dean will look at, pick out the faults and go from there.

There will be changes Saturday, but more of a rotation that “one poor game you’re out” rationale.

Dasilva will come in (although I thought Rowe was one of the few if any who had a bit of a spark tonight) surely....as will Kalas.

Suspect Sessegnon will too.

If Martin is ok, I’d be interesting to see him pair with Antoine.

Midfield needs to be carefully thought through.  Bakinson is finding out how tough this league is, quick rise to prominence, quickly noticed by opposition coaches!  They’ve clamped down on him.  Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he was terrible tonight, because he wasn’t, but he might need taking out of the firing line.  We need to be prepared to not have the ball on Saturday....and out midfield will need mobility.

Will be an interesting few days of team selection speculation on here! 😉

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Some belting comments tonight. That match was lost with 1 defensive error. Correct me If im wrong but put the 1 error aside, we still have a cracking defence. Power in midfield, a flair thinking attacking strike force . Onto the next game boys (that last judgement makes no sense) 😣

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4 hours ago, The Bard said:

Maybe but he never hid.  May have made errors but he's the one lacking experience and he had zero help from heavily experienced team mates who went missing.

Yes i agree we should have brought on Brunt 2nd half taken off the non-existant Pato this would have helped Bakinson he was out there on his own and needed help

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I would have started Semenyo last night.

I think when we go to the forwards, if we have 2 that are good with their back to goal then that probably helps us make it stick up top. Frees up Martin a bit too him not being the only one capable of it.

Wells link up play been poor in most games. He works his socks off and is very quick. But for me Semenyo should be given a go ahead of him.

Down the sides we have to improve too. Freshen up the wing backs next game. More pace and technical ability. 

I think then if we can't play it through the middle then we can go to the forwards better or down the sides better. But also having players who are better at linking up play in Dasilva and Semenyo will only help us play it along the ground through the middle of the pitch too.

Semenyo can get behind too like Wells, so we would not be losing pace up top.

Dasilva can get more advanced and that opens up space for the left centre back to bring it out, Mawson didn't have the space Vyner did last night.

So those kind of changes I think can help. Bring in Williams for Paterson and that will help massively too I hope. Or even O'Dowda if Williams is still injured.

Bit disappointed that Holden is waiting too long to drop Paterson who I think has not been at his best for 2 games before last night. Especially as he'd only played days before and up against a team maybe not suited to Pato in there, that ended up being the case.

Edited by JonDolman
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14 hours ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

Dont mention the J word. How long do people think it will be before Deano extinguishes the ghost of.....? For me apart from the formations, all the games so far have still got (insert name here) written all over them. Hitting on the break home and away. Ball continually bypassing midfield. Poor possession stats and retention with the inability to string more than 4-5 passes together etc etc. Will it be when we see williams and walsh in midfield that things will truly begin to change?

Hate to burst the bubble but it's Williams and Walsh not Lampard and Gerard, think we're putting a lot of pressure on these lads to come back from fitness and transform everything. It will be nice to have 11 players on the field rather than 9 though!!

 

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15 hours ago, daored said:

We have no creation in the middle , playing a three we should be able to accommodate a player who can split a defence with a pass or make something happen. A lot on Walsh 

And how is Walsh the answer to our problem ? I really don't understand such a love in based on nowt

 

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