Wiltshire robin Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 48 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: So we have a 4 week problem and the resolution is a 2 year deal. Two fingers up to Moore, Vyner and all the kids. If we hadn’t signed Williams and played Moore or Vyner then they’d both be even better now. Repeating the same mistake. If we sign Mariappa we have to get promoted or else we have just helped ourselves short term to hurt ourselves long term. Appreciate there will be plenty of people who disagree with me. It’s a different philosophy that’s all. Understand what you’re saying but Moore and vyner are not good enough for a play off or top 2 championship side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 25 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said: Understand what you’re saying but Moore and vyner are not good enough for a play off or top 2 championship side That's the point here. It's how highly our management and coaches rate Moore and Vyner in the context of our expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 10 hours ago, And Its Smith said: Appreciate I’m probably in a minority but these signings depress me somewhat. Same as Ashley Williams and Chris Brunt when they signed. Short-term-ism is not the answer I would suggest. You don’t understand then , the amount of quality & professionalism they bring into the club and training. We have a young squad in some cases. Players like zac & taylor Moore , Towler will learn so much in how to conduct themselves alone , never mind the footballing aspect . We need experience in defence if we’re to be serious play off contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, GrahamC said: Mariappa can play RB too, so if Sessegnon also remains unavailable this is cover there, too. How many games has he played there recently? A 34 year old doesn't scream a RB to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Wiltshire robin said: Understand what you’re saying but Moore and vyner are not good enough for a play off or top 2 championship side Nonsense. Both are young but capable defenders who are gaining valuable experience every time they play. Both will gradually become very valuable assets to City. Both need game time and bringing an experienced CB will benefit them both. That was the idea by signing Mawson but with him injured City need another experienced CB. Mariappa or Shotton will do just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 38 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said: Understand what you’re saying but Moore and vyner are not good enough for a play off or top 2 championship side I get your point....but you could argue that both have played significant minutes (in Vyner’s case every single minute) in a team that are currently 5th, I.e. in the play-offs. Of course the flip-side is that they aren’t good enough, but only time will prove that. Assuming Mariappa signs (ignore contract length for now), we now have: RB: Hunt backed up by Vyner and Mariappa CB: Vyner, Moore, Kalas and Mariappa with Baker to return (Mawson we e no official news on) LB: Dasilva and Rowe I’ve not called out wingbacks, but you could possibly add in O’Dowda at LWB if needed. If we assume Baker is fit for the new year, then we have 11 games before Brentford on Sat 2nd Jan before a midweek FA Cup 3rd Round Game. 11 games in 38 days, with only one midweek empty. That’s a punishing schedule, with little time for fitness top-up between games. To have the flexibility to rotate will be a bonus. Plus a red card suspension risk also needs to be factored in. We don’t look like anyone getting 5 yellows between now and Millwall (game 19), but that can easily change. To have the flexibility to remain in DH’s preferred 352 is good (assuming he doesn’t switch to 433 more permanently). Then we come onto Mariappa’s demands. He knows he’s in demand and can drive a hard bargain. In Williams’s case it is rumoured that he had a low basic wage but large appearance fee. He also had a clause that said if he made x appearances his 6 month deal would be automatically extended to the end of the season. That is the kind of deal I would like for Mariappa, but beggars can’t be choosers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Robbored said: Nonsense. Both are young bu capable defenders who are gaining valuable experience every time they play. Both will gradually become very valuable assets to City. Both need game time and bringing an experienced CB will benefit them both. That was the idea by signing Mawson but with him injured City need another experienced CB. Mariappa or Shotton will do just fine. They’re not young in footballing terms at all 23 ? I think. zac does seem to learn but Moore does have a mistake in him more. He cost us against Middlesbrough. If he did that again 2 or 3 times over the season , it could cost us a play off place . If the club are serious about promotion you need experienced defenders. We don’t know if baker will come back the player he was and Mawson unfortunately has chocolate knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: You don’t understand then , the amount of quality & professionalism they bring into the club and training. We have a young squad in some cases. Players like zac & taylor Moore , Towler will learn so much in how to conduct themselves alone , never mind the footballing aspect . We need experience in defence if we’re to be serious play off contenders. No need to accuse me of not understanding just because I have a different take on things to you. Just because someone is old doesn’t mean they are professional. We have signed players in their 30s before who have been rumoured to be unprofessional. Players will learn more from playing than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Selred said: How many games has he played there recently? A 34 year old doesn't scream a RB to me. The vast majority last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 minute ago, And Its Smith said: No need to accuse me of not understanding just because I have a different take on things to you. Just because someone is old doesn’t mean they are professional. We have signed players in their 30s before who have been rumoured to be unprofessional. Players will learn more from playing than anything else. I don’t mean it to come across like that, apologies . Mariappa or brunt wouldn’t of had the career they’ve had if they weren’t professional . They’ve both played a lot of their career in the top flight. The fact still stands , their experience is invaluable . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 Just to add, here’s our yellow card count in Championship games. League Cup yellows are accumulated in that competition these days and don’t count towards EFL Champ games. For info, if someone was to get a red card (or two yellows) in any comp, the ban takes place for the next game, irrespective of comp, e.g. if someone got sent off in Brentford game on 2nd Jan, they’d miss FA Cup game in that midweek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 21 minutes ago, Selred said: How many games has he played there recently? A 34 year old doesn't scream a RB to me. True, he can play there, but Vyner moving across to allow Hunt a break is probably far more likely, on reflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 Experience is vital in a team , we’ve had many players who have made a big difference for us , Elliot, Adebola,Norman Hunter ... equally many who have missed the boat , Jody Morris, Nicky Hunt ( get well soon Nicky) Stern John... there are really no guarantees of success with older ,or younger, players. If the club feel the need to bring in an older head then that’s fine by me. It won’t be a decision they take lightly and they will weigh up all the pros and cons before committing to a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, GrahamC said: True, he can play there, but Vyner moving across to allow Hunt a break is probably far more likely, on reflection. Who gives Vyner a break? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, And Its Smith said: I would say to cover a 4-6 week problem the common sense would be to sign someone until January. If there isn’t anyone good enough who will sign for that short a time then work a way around it. It’s not as if there are zero options and we will either have to play with 10 men or have Diedhiou at centre back. Can you find a player who will be willing to make himself available for a 6 week period? Even if it was only that period that was the problem, we would be asking our 3 central defenders to play every minute of 9 games. If they don't bring someone in and injuries or suspensions hit, we will have far more posts complaining that we failed to recognise the potential issue, not spending money etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Major Isewater said: Experience is vital in a team , we’ve had many players who have made a big difference for us , Elliot, Adebola,Norman Hunter ... equally many who have missed the boat , Jody Morris, Nicky Hunt ( get well soon Nicky) Stern John... there are really no guarantees of success with older ,or younger, players. If the club feel the need to bring in an older head then that’s fine by me. It won’t be a decision they take lightly and they will weigh up all the pros and cons before committing to a contract. Bringing in an experienced player carries the same risk as any new signing. GoN and Mawson are good examples of where it hasn’t paid off down entirely to injuries. As we we all age we’re all susceptible to various age related issues and with footballers in autumn of their careers exactly the same applies to them and they become more injury prone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Just to add, here’s our yellow card count in Championship games. League Cup yellows are accumulated in that competition these days and don’t count towards EFL Champ games. For info, if someone was to get a red card (or two yellows) in any comp, the ban takes place for the next game, irrespective of comp, e.g. if someone got sent off in Brentford game on 2nd Jan, they’d miss FA Cup game in that midweek. I believe the FA Cup is Saturday 9th Jan EFL Cup SF are 5th 6th Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: Can you find a player who will be willing to make himself available for a 6 week period? Even if it was only that period that was the problem, we would be asking our 3 central defenders to play every minute of 9 games. If they don't bring someone in and injuries or suspensions hit, we will have far more posts complaining that we failed to recognise the potential issue, not spending money etc, etc. We don’t have to play 3 centre backs. Play two and have one back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire robin Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 56 minutes ago, Robbored said: Nonsense. Both are young but capable defenders who are gaining valuable experience every time they play. Both will gradually become very valuable assets to City. Both need game time and bringing an experienced CB will benefit them both. That was the idea by signing Mawson but with him injured City need another experienced CB. Mariappa or Shotton will do just fine. Not nonsense, Moore constantly gives the ball away and we shipped goals by his individual errors last season too . Vyner has improved a lot but he’s definitely not top 6 standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 Hope it works out, but stinks of a experienced pro getting his final pay day. I think we should've took a chance on what we had. I don't like this deal too much but hopefully he proves me wrong, I worry it's going down the same route as we previously did after a few years in this division. Mariappa doing his medical as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said: Not nonsense, Moore constantly gives the ball away and we shipped goals by his individual errors last season too . Vyner has improved a lot but he’s definitely not top 6 standard Playing young players means they will be learning on the job, and we notice their mistakes more because of the scrutiny. I have seen highlights of most games this season and I have seen experienced players for teams in the top 10 making mistakes as well. 36 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: We don’t have to play 3 centre backs. Play two and have one back up. So throw out what has been working for us or sign a player that allows us to continue playing the style that has in the top 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, Carey 6 said: Hope it works out, but stinks of a experienced pro getting his final pay day. I think we should've took a chance on what we had. I don't like this deal too much but hopefully he proves me wrong, I worry it's going down the same route as we previously did after a few years in this division. Mariappa doing his medical as we speak. Do we think the COVID outbreak would alter the timeline for his signing? Is it sensible to bring him into the squad environment right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire robin Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: Playing young players means they will be learning on the job, and we notice their mistakes more because of the scrutiny. I have seen highlights of most games this season and I have seen experienced players for teams in the top 10 making mistakes as well. So throw out what has been working for us or sign a player that allows us to continue playing the style that has in the top 6? I’m not saying young players don’t make mistakes I understand they will but if the club come out and said the goal this season is top 6 then recruitment needs to be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: Playing young players means they will be learning on the job, and we notice their mistakes more because of the scrutiny. I have seen highlights of most games this season and I have seen experienced players for teams in the top 10 making mistakes as well. So throw out what has been working for us or sign a player that allows us to continue playing the style that has in the top 6? It’s called problem solving. Has it been working? In recent games we have been much better with a back four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 minute ago, And Its Smith said: It’s called problem solving. Has it been working? In recent games we have been much better with a back four. Sign Mariappa, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Wiltshire robin said: Understand what you’re saying but Moore and vyner are not good enough for a play off or top 2 championship side Who's opinion is that? If it's yours, what qualifies you to make such a statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 56 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said: I believe the FA Cup is Saturday 9th Jan EFL Cup SF are 5th 6th Jan. Ta, yes, you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 15 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: Sign Mariappa, problem solved. It solves a problem and creates a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: It solves a problem and creates a problem. Why do you think signing an experienced CB creates a problem? Surely with both Mawson and Baker out injured cover is needed in central defence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire robin Posted November 11, 2020 Report Share Posted November 11, 2020 35 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: Who's opinion is that? If it's yours, what qualifies you to make such a statement? Just my opinion but by the sounds of it anyone who disagrees with you has to be wrong , please name me a top six championship side who you think would play Moore and vyner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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