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ohhhshauntaylor

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So last night was a very poor team display- I think credit to Colin for how he set up and effectively stopped our game plan- just one of those frustrating nights where we looked very poor. 
lots of claims of “no plan B” and I think that’s a fair review- but it got me thinking back to Swansea (A) last season, Coventry (H) and Sheff Wed (H) 1st half. 
In all those games (and in certain sections of a few other wins this season) we’ve really struggled in midfield. 
Bakinson looked leggy, and not his usual self, but where this midfield 3 struggle is when teams do what Boro did. 
 

I think we’re crying out for some genuine midfielders to slot in and make us more compact- especially on Saturday vs Swansea where they will have the ball a lot and play around us- AW/JP in that game will be bypassed. 
 

We can’t blame Dean for the continuity of his team selection- but I think it’s fair to say the return of Walsh and Williams should add a solid bank for us to use and build on. 
 

my other concern is that we’re now down to 3 fit central defenders- and with our (dare I say identity) being 3-5-2 we need to make sure we can win the battle in the middle of the park as we face a tough run. 
 

That Boro performance will become a blueprint for other teams in how to beat us-

Press us high, pin the full backs back and nullify the wide men being able to get the ball into Chris Martin. 
 

let’s hope we return to winning ways Saturday- my take on the starting 11 (assume Mawson won’t be seen for a while)

Bentley 

Hunt 

Vyner

Kalas

Moore

Dasilva 

Williams 

Walsh 

Weimann

Semenyo

Martin 

 

id like to see a bench of 

Wells

Bakinson

O’Leary

Massengo 

Paterson 

Fam 

Brunt 

 

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18 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

So last night was a very poor team display- I think credit to Colin for how he set up and effectively stopped our game plan- just one of those frustrating nights where we looked very poor. 
lots of claims of “no plan B” and I think that’s a fair review- but it got me thinking back to Swansea (A) last season, Coventry (H) and Sheff Wed (H) 1st half. 
In all those games (and in certain sections of a few other wins this season) we’ve really struggled in midfield. 
Bakinson looked leggy, and not his usual self, but where this midfield 3 struggle is when teams do what Boro did. 
 

I think we’re crying out for some genuine midfielders to slot in and make us more compact- especially on Saturday vs Swansea where they will have the ball a lot and play around us- AW/JP in that game will be bypassed. 
 

We can’t blame Dean for the continuity of his team selection- but I think it’s fair to say the return of Walsh and Williams should add a solid bank for us to use and build on. 
 

my other concern is that we’re now down to 3 fit central defenders- and with our (dare I say identity) being 3-5-2 we need to make sure we can win the battle in the middle of the park as we face a tough run. 
 

That Boro performance will become a blueprint for other teams in how to beat us-

Press us high, pin the full backs back and nullify the wide men being able to get the ball into Chris Martin. 
 

let’s hope we return to winning ways Saturday- my take on the starting 11 (assume Mawson won’t be seen for a while)

Bentley 

Hunt 

Vyner

Kalas

Moore

Dasilva 

Williams 

Walsh 

Weimann

Semenyo

Martin 

 

id like to see a bench of 

Wells

Bakinson

O’Leary

Massengo 

Paterson 

Fam 

Brunt 

 

Despite all this a draw would have been a fairer result.

0-0 or 1-1 as TB foul was a penalty. 
 

Boro just looked sharper and more energetic than us .

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The ‘engine room’  midfield was clearly the issue last night. Some were bemoaning the forwards (CM & NW) but we could have played with the best strikers in the world , no service, no performance. 

BAKINSON going to get off games, but Pato & AW are not really the answers. AN is not in squad, and no updates on WALSH & WILLIAMS. Where are they, like to hear an update on when this pair will be fit, seems like an eternity from relatively minor injuries ?  These two in particular will give better options. 

Now it also looks bad for central defenders with only a choice of 3 from 3 unless you again  put square pegs into round holes !  

This week will be an interesting watch again. 

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26 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

So last night was a very poor team display- I think credit to Colin for how he set up and effectively stopped our game plan- just one of those frustrating nights where we looked very poor. 
lots of claims of “no plan B” and I think that’s a fair review- but it got me thinking back to Swansea (A) last season, Coventry (H) and Sheff Wed (H) 1st half. 
In all those games (and in certain sections of a few other wins this season) we’ve really struggled in midfield. 
Bakinson looked leggy, and not his usual self, but where this midfield 3 struggle is when teams do what Boro did. 
 

I think we’re crying out for some genuine midfielders to slot in and make us more compact- especially on Saturday vs Swansea where they will have the ball a lot and play around us- AW/JP in that game will be bypassed. 
 

We can’t blame Dean for the continuity of his team selection- but I think it’s fair to say the return of Walsh and Williams should add a solid bank for us to use and build on. 
 

my other concern is that we’re now down to 3 fit central defenders- and with our (dare I say identity) being 3-5-2 we need to make sure we can win the battle in the middle of the park as we face a tough run. 
 

That Boro performance will become a blueprint for other teams in how to beat us-

Press us high, pin the full backs back and nullify the wide men being able to get the ball into Chris Martin. 
 

let’s hope we return to winning ways Saturday- my take on the starting 11 (assume Mawson won’t be seen for a while)

Bentley 

Hunt 

Vyner

Kalas

Moore

Dasilva 

Williams 

Walsh 

Weimann

Semenyo

Martin 

 

id like to see a bench of 

Wells

Bakinson

O’Leary

Massengo 

Paterson 

Fam 

Brunt 

 

That’s a decent team, but I doubt players will be ready for Saturday.  Has Walsh been seen on the training ground recently?  Is Dasilva injured again? Agree that Semenyo should come in for Wells - he’s the one player who has really disappointed me in the last two games.

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His first defeat as head coach will be a real test to how Deano reacts.

    
Obviously it’s very likely that Mawson will be missing but Kalas is a very decent CB but apart from that enforced change will He react to a poor display by changing the line up? Several players were nowhere near what they’re capable of and with the Jacks up next on Saturday he may feel that the team needs a shake up.

He said post match that he wants to work out why it was such a poor display but Colin deserves some credit for that. As per usual Colins team were well set up and workmanlike and City struggled to find that ‘spark’.


 

 

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58 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Despite all this a draw would have been a fairer result.

Agree- a drab 0-0 would of been fair.

0-0 or 1-1 as TB foul was a penalty. 
Yep- it was a Pen at Barnsley and it was a Pen last night, IMO. to caveat, it could also be a foul from Kalas down in the corner when it went out for a GK.

Boro just looked sharper and more energetic than us.

They did, and they didn't fade as I expected/we didn't make the changes to tire them- a Massengo type could've helped in Hindsight- i didn't agree with the double change up top

 

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Didn’t realise Paterson was playing till injury time in the second half and gave the ball to their keeper. Really sorry but he is not consistent enough for that role, AW ain’t good enough for that role (players out of position again!!!) and players like Bakinson will always struggle over Several games with these two in central midfield, same thing happened at the beginning of the season to HNM when having to cover for these two, before Bakinsons big breakthrough, surly HNM, Bakinson, Nagy would be the best 3?

Lets not forget although poor that was an under strength Moro team which made us look incredibly average at home

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6 minutes ago, Super said:

Is Dasilva still injured?

Nope, Holden is preferring Rowe over him in the starting 11 and O’Dowda over him on the bench as he also covers in the midfield (confirmed by Gregor). If Holden’s excuse is that he was sticking with a winning side then this is surely the perfect chance to get Dasilva back in and I’ll be pretty worried if he isn’t starting Saturday..

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13 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Thanks for the new thread, not as if it’s being discussed widely elsewhere ?

Well..........:cool2:

I don’t bother with otib after a defeat for obvious reasons and have only recently come online - now not having read the usual knee jerk reactions I had no idea that this topic had already under discussion.

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There is no indication at all that Williams & Walsh are fit & even if they are, no way will we start both with neither of them having played a single minute so far this season.

We do need to freshen it up though & clearly Mawson will be out. 

Swansea will play a completely different type of football to Warnock, so are the ideal side for Dasilva to face. I’d be tempted to start with Brunt too & depending on Martin’s fitness (he didn’t look right to me last night) bring in Famara. 

Can’t see any logic in dropping Wells though, our most likely scorer & been replaced in most games so far so less likely to be fatigued than many.

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He's gone the exact opposite way of Johnson.  Whereas LJ would chop and change too much, Deano doesn't do it enough.  Sept and Oct have been chock full of fixtures and the players were looking leggy Saturday, let alone last night....more worrying is that they're looking leggy after an international break - maybe that also needs looking at.  I know that Martin has been excellent, but he needs to be used more wisely.  The midfield three for me isn't working well enough either. Ty looked dead on his feet for much of the match.  

I wouldn't necessarily look at wholesale changes, but the two wing backs I'd swap to give us a little more energy bombing forward, and go for a slightly more secure middle with Nagy and possibly Massengo coming in.  How much longer until Walsh and WIlliams are available?  Antoine up top for Martin to preserve him a little has to be considered.

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23 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

We’ll have to wait and see what the line-up is on the official website at 2pm on Saturday. Anything else is speculation.

Very true but that doesn’t stop posters trying to second guess what the starting 11 will be. 

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Well it is what it is. Might be our first loss and doubt it will be our last.

What is important is how we react and Saturday with prove if we have any resolve.

My feeling is that we will bounce back and prove the doubters to be wrong.

 

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6 minutes ago, markcarter said:

After the defeat Holden said “We need to find out why we put in such a poor performance - and we will”.  Having carried out the review process, he gave his conclusions today:  “It was an off night”.  Not earth shattering insight and of no use at all in preventing an immediate repeat next time out.

I very much doubt he’s gonna go into detail tactically in a presser like today’s.  That stuff stays in-house.

An “off-night” is a simple very high-level way of saying things didn’t go to plan.  The detail of the “things” ain’t gonna be heard by Joe Public.

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51 minutes ago, markcarter said:

Provides no confidence that he has any clue why the performance was poor.  Or what to do about it.  Which was exactly what marred the last part of Johnson’s time.

What do you want him to say?  Here’s what he did say:

How do you reflect on the game on Tuesday night a few days later? A tough night at the office...

It's probably the first time this season we've not been at our best.

We didn't open Middlesbrough up enough to create the chances we needed to to win the game. It's probably the first time that has happened this season. We've created lots of chances in all the games.

How did you see the midfield battle on Tuesday night, an often key battle? 

You're going up against three really good Championship midfielders in my opinion for Middlesbrough. They go man for man in there and they make it difficult.

They try not to give you any space of course but for our players, Tyreeq's getting a little bit of attention now from his previous performances and of course everybody already knows about Andi and Pato and what they can bring - and they were never going to make it easy for us.

I don't think they got probably enough quality ball in the right areas if we're being honest, for whatever reason. As I say, it was one of those games that we have to move on quickly from.

I would suggest he knows plenty of reasons but he isn’t gonna get all technical, his audience is reporters and fans.  I think he noticed things in the game (and he’s made tweaks in-game in several already) because he changed it to go direct with Fam and Antoine, because the midfield wasn’t getting on the ball in the right areas.

It feels nothing like Lee Johnson to me.  Where was the half-time double sub and swap to a 442 as a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.  Holden makes subtle changes in the main.

If you look closely at the game (that’s not trying to come across arrogantly I promise) the fundamentals were ok.  Defensively solid(ish), gave up a couple of early chances, but Boro didn’t cause us any real problems.  Offensively, I thought we moved the ball side to side fairly well between Moore, Mawson and Vyner.  It wasn’t Vyner to Moore to Mawson, back to Moore, and then back to Bentley to hoof it upfield (like times under SOD and LJ), we got Vyner in pockets, Mawson is a bit more conservative.

But the issues were when we played into the midfield or front two or from midfield into front two.  Too often we played poor passes or took poor touches.  It was frustrating.  Having moved the ball well enough to create the little breaks we didn’t execute well enough at all.  

If I can see that I’m sure Holden, Downing and Simpson can too....and they will have much better knowledge of how to sort it out too.

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27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But the issues were when we played into the midfield or front two or from midfield into front two.  Too often we played poor passes or took poor touches.  It was frustrating.  Having moved the ball well enough to create the little breaks we didn’t execute well enough at all.  

If I can see that I’m sure Holden, Downing and Simpson can too....and they will have much better knowledge of how to sort it out too.

You are spot on that midfield, or lack of it, was our problem. So why after the 2nd half soon settled into the same pattern as the first did Holden not change that?

We had Brunt & COD on the bench, to me Brunt for Wiemann or Pato would have been the sub to make. This was BEFORE the Mawson injury where the break Boro had  which lead to the injury, was due to neither Weimann or Pato covering the space Bakinson had left by driving forward. So unlike you I'm not sure Holden can see it... he  just might have the same blind spot. 

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16 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

You are spot on that midfield, or lack of it, was our problem. So why after the 2nd half soon settled into the same pattern as the first did Holden not change that?

We had Brunt & COD on the bench, to me Brunt for Wiemann or Pato would have been the sub to make. This was BEFORE the Mawson injury where the break Boro had  which lead to the injury, was due to neither Weimann or Pato covering the space Bakinson had left by driving forward. So unlike you I'm not sure Holden can see it... he  just might have the same blind spot. 

Maybe it was “let’s give it 10 or so minutes and see if we can correct it”, and then Mawson got injured and was down for 4 minutes.  I don’t know.

I don’t disagree - I thought it needed changing up in midfield too.  I’d have gone Brunt for Pato and see where that took us.

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12 hours ago, old_eastender said:

You are spot on that midfield, or lack of it, was our problem. So why after the 2nd half soon settled into the same pattern as the first did Holden not change that?

We had Brunt & COD on the bench, to me Brunt for Wiemann or Pato would have been the sub to make. This was BEFORE the Mawson injury where the break Boro had  which lead to the injury, was due to neither Weimann or Pato covering the space Bakinson had left by driving forward. So unlike you I'm not sure Holden can see it... he  just might have the same blind spot. 

That worries me too. Watching the game I was not a happy bunny when he decided to sub both forwards. Maybe Martin wasn't 100% fit and the plan was always to replace him. When your strikers are hardly seeing the ball it isn't them that need replacing - which I posted at the time.

I hope DH doesn't stubbornly stick to JP and AW in midfield even when it clearly isn't working. 

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