Well done Vyner and Moore

[Major Isewater]

Vyner is a good defender. Energetic and nicks the ball off the opponents well.  He needs to improve his final ball and could come forward more often as an attacking threat but I am sure that will come. Deserves his place in the first team.

Moore stood firm yesterday and linked up well .

What pleased me the most was how both players got over their recent mistakes and were brave .

It’s very promising for the future.

[Prinny]

What do you mean got over their mistakes?

Moore made four huge errors that led to great positions for them. Stood firm? He let people run around him! He's not good in that LCB role. He's been bad both times he's played there this season. I would say that Taylor wasn't particularly brave yesterday, there was a noticeable lack of him bringing the ball out. And he still had one pass across the pitch that nearly let them in. It's totally understandable that he's taking less risks, but his decision making and defensive technique wasn't good yesterday IMO.

Vyner got dragged out of position which was a major contributing factor to their goal. In three games running there's been a switch off moment leading to a chance, two of those have resulted in goals. It's obv not totally his fault, but he's had "major contributions" to us conceding. Apart from the goal I thought he was good yesterday.

This isn't a call to bomb them out, they're worth persisting with. They're talented players who we hope will cut out their mistakes with more game time. Especially since we only have three fit senior centre backs so don't have a choice if we want to keep this formation! But let's not pretend that they're not costing us with their play. Or that they're playing really well.

I'm only going to think it's promising if we see a reduction in errors from them. Moore had his worst game of the season for me. No surprise because of the position, but I want to see a step up from him, because he's going to have to fill that role.

[sglosbcfc]

I like both players but Taylor must cut out the silly mistakes and Vyner must toughen up. Vyner was pushed off the ball on at least three occasions yesterday. As a centre half he has to be more aggressive. Taylor has to be willing to just put his foot through the ball and hit Martin at times.

When Mawson and Baker are fit they'll have a real battle to stay in the team, but at the moment they are obviously first picks.

[Prinny]

6 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

I like both players but Taylor must cut out the silly mistakes and Vyner must toughen up. Vyner was pushed off the ball on at least three occasions yesterday. As a centre half he has to be more aggressive. Taylor has to be willing to just put his foot through the ball and hit Martin at times.

When Mawson and Baker are fit they'll have a real battle to stay in the team, but at the moment they are obviously first picks.

That's a good point about Vyner's strength. He plays smaller than he is.

There's a danger when adding bulk that it reduces his athleticism, but if he's going to try and be a centre back, rather than a utility player I'd like to see him get stronger. He might have to cover RWB now Sessegnon is potentially hurt badly so maybe he can't do that now.

[sglosbcfc]

5 minutes ago, Prinny said:

That's a good point about Vyner's strength. He plays smaller than he is.

There's a danger when adding bulk that it reduces his athleticism, but if he's going to try and be a centre back, rather than a utility player I'd like to see him get stronger. He might have to cover RWB now Sessegnon is potentially hurt badly so maybe he can't do that now.

Yes, there is a lot to like about Vyner, but if you are playing central defence in a physical league like the Championship you have to be strong.

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Vyner is a good defender. Energetic and nicks the ball off the opponents well.  He needs to improve his final ball and could come forward more often as an attacking threat but I am sure that will come. Deserves his place in the first team.

Moore stood firm yesterday and linked up well .

What pleased me the most was how both players got over their recent mistakes and were brave .

It’s very promising for the future.

Nice positive post........clearly wrong of you to do so of course .........

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Prinny said:

What do you mean got over their mistakes?

What I mean is , not that they didn’t make other mistakes yesterday, that they didn’t hide and were brave.

Luckily these youngsters are learning the job without having idiots in the crowd destroying their confidence with ill judged abuse.

At least COVID-19 is good for something.

 

[Prinny]

9 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

What I mean is , not that they didn’t make other mistakes yesterday, that they didn’t hide and were brave.

Luckily these youngsters are learning the job without having idiots in the crowd destroying their confidence with ill judged abuse.

At least COVID-19 is good for something.

 

Ok, could you give examples that I've missed of incidents of Taylor Moore being brave yesterday?

I don't remember any real positive attacking or defensive play from him. Maybe the easily dealt with header but that's it? What's the bar here? Genuine question. He didn't refuse to receive the ball or dodge tackling, but he wasn't exactly rampaging forwards with it either or crunching into tackles?

I think it's easier to argue that with Vyner who definitely got more stuck in.

[steviestevieneville]

Vyner has a ok game but taylor Moore was poor yesterday. Very lucky not to concede when he waited for the ball to go out and had it nicked off him. Deal with it. He’s 23 now , not a kid . He needs to improve rapidly imo 

[1960maaan]

Something else I'd add as you're praising the pair Major. Moore has been playing the left side role when no one else looks like they want to. I thought he's looked good in the centre or right, but definitely looks less comfortable on the left. He has, when playing centre or right of the 3, looked to bring the ball out and looked good doing it. Vyner has a mistake in him, he has looked like he's switched off , or just relaxed at times in games. That said he looks a good athlete and he's started to get forward more, although the final ball, or his choses need work.

Lets not forget it's their first proper run at this level at CB 

[Roger Red Hat]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I thought he's looked good in the centre or right, but definitely looks less comfortable on the left.

Spot on. I'm not sure why he has to be the one to play out of position.

[Davefevs]

I think there are some hyper-critical comments above.  Nobody plays a perfect game, opponents are good at this level and Swansea didn’t cause us loads of probs.  As a defence we coped pretty well.  I accept that Vyner got dragged out for their goal, but we also don’t know what comms were being issued either.

Generally both Moore and Vyner are timid in the challenge.  There are opportunities to go and win the ball on the ground and in the air.  They do need to improve that, so that there opposing number feels pressured (or even gets a whack) when receiving into feet or going up for a header.

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Spot on. I'm not sure why he has to be the one to play out of position.

Kalas came to play RCB, but apart from preference I kind of think it makes sense having the experience between the two younger lads. TM is more comfortable using his left foot and I think that's why he gets the nod. 
I think Rowe might get some minutes there at some stage, and if no one else can fill in, I think we will have to change shape as it's a lot to ask 3 players playing every game.

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think there are some hyper-critical comments above.  Nobody plays a perfect game, opponents are good at this level and Swansea didn’t cause us loads of probs.  As a defence we coped pretty well.  I accept that Vyner got dragged out for their goal, but we also don’t know what comms were being issued either.

Generally both Moore and Vyner are timid in the challenge.  There are opportunities to go and win the ball on the ground and in the air.  They do need to improve that, so that there opposing number feels pressured (or even gets a whack) when receiving into feet or going up for a header.

Funny enough , my criticism of TM when he first came in the team was the complete opposite . I thought he was too enthusiastic and clattered into opponents when he had those early games at FB/WB. Another part of the game where we are too nice, unless it's a sliding tackle, Moore has been known to mistime those and clatter a player.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Kalas came to play RCB, but apart from preference I kind of think it makes sense having the experience between the two younger lads. TM is more comfortable using his left foot and I think that's why he gets the nod. 
I think Rowe might get some minutes there at some stage, and if no one else can fill in, I think we will have to change shape as it's a lot to ask 3 players playing every game.

Yep, but not against Bournemouth or Norwich!

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, but not against Bournemouth or Norwich!

I think as a footballer he may cope , physically maybe not. Going to be a big shout for Holden, very  few options, but I think we need come up with an alternative. If we get through these next two games we need to rotate. Problem is, as it stands when does Kalas get a rest , and if got injured through being flogged to death?

As I say, big decisions ahead. 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

I thought Taylor was very good yesterday Zak another soled display but must get stronger in the challenge 

[Port Said Red]

12 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I thought Taylor was very good yesterday Zak another soled display but must get stronger in the challenge 

I agree they both played well against two players who would probably make it into most teams in the bottom half of the prem. I take your point about Zak, although it was strange that the referee allowed Lowe to push him out of the way to win balls, when Martin was pulled up for similar or less innocuous challenges.

[2015]

Kalas was outstanding yesterday and bailed them out on a few occasions. Vyner has improved a little since beginning of the season but Moore made around 2 or 3 mistakes first half which could have put us 1-0 down. I would put Baker in for one of them as soon as he is fit again

[Rocking Red Cyril]

4 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I agree they both played well against two players who would probably make it into most teams in the bottom half of the prem. I take your point about Zak, although it was strange that the referee allowed Lowe to push him out of the way to win balls, when Martin was pulled up for similar or less innocuous challenges.

I thought the ref was particularly bad esp. Seconed half. Let too many yellow card Swansea tackles go un carded and did not stop obscene time wasting 

[Lanterne Rouge]

10 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I thought the ref was particularly bad esp. Seconed half. Let too many yellow card Swansea tackles go un carded and did not stop obscene time wasting 

He almost gave both Roberts and Korey second yellows but bottled it when he realised he`d already booked them both. The Roberts one was particularly bad - he had his card out, thought about it, and then booked Nahki just to save face.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I think as a footballer he may cope , physically maybe not. Going to be a big shout for Holden, very  few options, but I think we need come up with an alternative. If we get through these next two games we need to rotate. Problem is, as it stands when does Kalas get a rest , and if got injured through being flogged to death?

As I say, big decisions ahead. 

Generally CBs don’t need rotating / rest....it’s less high intensity playing there.  I hope they stay fit....mental fatigue is more of an issue for me.

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I agree they both played well against two players who would probably make it into most teams in the bottom half of the prem. I take your point about Zak, although it was strange that the referee allowed Lowe to push him out of the way to win balls, when Martin was pulled up for similar or less innocuous challenges.

1 hour ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I thought the ref was particularly bad esp. Seconed half. Let too many yellow card Swansea tackles go un carded and did not stop obscene time wasting 

It’s why I say Oliver Langford is one of the worst three refs in this league.  Him, Gavin Ward and Geoff Eltringham are far worse that Stroud.  Stroud isn’t great but he is fair.  The other three base decisions on player reactions in the main..  They are influenced and therefore make inconsistent decisions.  They don’t understand the game and therefore miss the snide stuff that goes on, like the push on Vyner, the late tackle on the stretch by Ayew that scissored Taylor Moore.  They can never have played the game.

They are what I call “last pick in the playground” and intent on seeking revenge by becoming referees!!

[1960maaan]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Generally CBs don’t need rotating / rest....it’s less high intensity playing there.  I hope they stay fit

I hope you're right, but this year being different and shortened pre-season I wonder if it might have some effect.

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s why I say Oliver Langford is one of the worst three refs in this league.  Him, Gavin Ward and Geoff Eltringham are far worse that Stroud.  Stroud isn’t great but he is fair.  The other three base decisions on player reactions in the main..  They are influenced and therefore make inconsistent decisions.  They don’t understand the game and therefore miss the snide stuff that goes on, like the push on Vyner, the late tackle on the stretch by Ayew that scissored Taylor Moore.  They can never have played the game.

They are what I call “last pick in the playground” and intent on seeking revenge by becoming referees!!

I got annoyed early on , 3 times a Swansea player went into the back of a City player, and nothing. Later on you only had to breath and if their player fell over, free kick. Just so frustrating. Much prefer a poor ref that's consistent.

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

We are still far too nice. Bentley seeing if Ayew was okay on the floor after he'd taken out Moore and went in hard on Bentley. I guess that doesn't really matter too much, but its just an example of how nice a team we are.

It's taken us until now to be a little cute on the ball, buying free kicks or going down easily. Maybe we're changing slowly, very slowly. Could definitely do with a bit more grit.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

It's taken us until now to be a little cute on the ball, buying free kicks or going down easily. Maybe we're changing slowly, very slowly. Could definitely do with a bit more grit.

Yep, look at how Smith cynically took out Pato yesterday.

[1960maaan]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, look at how Smith cynically took out Pato yesterday.

That reminds me, must unfollow him on instagram, that'll teach him 

[redysteadygo]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

That reminds me, must unfollow him on instagram, that'll teach him 

Surely that should be ' that'll learn him' ".

[1960maaan]

15 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

Surely that should be ' that'll learn him' ".

Went all posh init 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Centre backs and burnout, it's an interesting one. Generally I'd say not so much, but in a higher line, pressing higher with more emphasis on possession or ball carrying ones, I could see some grounds for rest.

Lot less than say wingbacks, attacking full backs, certain types of CM and striker of course!

[Son of Fred]

7 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

At least COVID-19 is good for something

It's kept the 'mother in law at bay..