City team v Cherries

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

The formation isn’t fine I would say. We don’t have any width especially when pressed and there are gaps all over the pitch, but mainly in midfield.

yesterday, width was what we did have...it was central we didn’t threaten.  We didn’t threaten wide either () but we got the ball into their final third in wide positions quite well.

Where were the gaps - you say all over the pitch?  In transition? In general play?

If teams have a good press then we fail to string five passes together, let alone create chances.

We made 390 successful passes yesterday, our highest of the season.  I agree, we didn’t create enough though.

How is Dean going to get us playing against a pressing team? Will be interesting to see.

we saw against Barnsley - the highest intensity pressing team in the Champ, that he saw issues that we tried to pass too much at the back, and not play into Martin.  So he knows the probs but now needs to ensure his players execute.

If he carries on playing this way for another five games then it might actually be for the best.  It should prove if he is right or wrong.  At least then we will know either way.  

My main frustration is managers who cannot see the obvious. I’m really hoping Dean isn’t one of them.

what is your opinion of what “the obvious” actually is?  And what is your solution?

The fans aren’t there but we have more fans watching a higher percentage of games I’d say.  Will be interesting to see consensus after 5-6 more 5-3-2 games

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

He's in a bit of an interesting situation with the formation in my opinion. He has actively recruited for the formation as far as I can see which limits our options.

We don't have a huge amount of natural attacking wingers which is where usually we might be able be a bit versatile. We only really have O'Dowda although Weimann and Semenyo can 'do a job' there. 

Recruiting specifically for a 5-3-2 worked for Cotterill, I don't know if we have the squad depth and quality to mainly use a 5-3-2 for the entire season. 

I suppose we could play a version of a 4-3-3 but it would require Walsh and Williams to come back from injury giving us more CM options in my view.

I was never hugely comfortable with Weimann and Paterson in a midfield 3. It was right to persist with it whilst we were winning, but to me it felt unbalanced and would eventually get found out.  

Neither was I.  I e said from the start of the season I thought Weimann was a sticking plaster solution.  3 in midfield is fine I don’t think Paterson and Weimann are the right blend for every eventuality, but until Boro they’d done a pretty decent job.

7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Interesting to see who Holden would go with out of him and Massengo. I think it would be Massengo as he has made the bench ahead of him as well as starting 2 games this season.

I don't know if Brunt is capable of 2 games in a few days. I expect Bakinson to come back in. I think O'Dowda will get his first start too.

you do make me laugh Jon.  I think we all know you’d pick Callum every game if you could.  Only one post I’ve read from you since last night didn’t include O’Dowda’s name!!!.  I’m sure you will get your wish at some point, maybe Wednesday.  You’re lumping a lot of pressure on him.  I hope he doesn’t read the forum....I know (first hand) his dad has his spies on here in case anyone writes anything bad!

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Bit worse than that 

DH said post match doesn’t expect them to be in contention until after the next International Break !

Do you think he meant Baker?  Bakinson was on the bench yesterday, and as Massengo and Nagy trained yesterday, I can’t believe he’d have put him on the bench.

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Do you think he meant Baker?  Bakinson was on the bench yesterday, and as Massengo and Nagy trained yesterday, I can’t believe he’d have put him on the bench.

He did say Walsh , Williams and Bakinson if I heard right Dave 

But

Agree that doesn’t make sense with TB on bench so either I misheard or it was a slip by Dean

 

Walsh & Williams definitely doesn’t expect until after the next International Break - Weve still a few games before then 

 

Still find some of our injury recovery times concerning 

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We made 390 successful passes yesterday, our highest of the season.  I agree, we didn’t create enough though.

We are, on the whole, passing it much better this season. We need to find the back of turning passes into good shots, but yesterday it was even more impressive that we limited Swansea to only about 230 completed passes. That's a Swansea team who've been averaging well over 450, and have broken the 500 barrier at least once.

That stifling of a team is a great skill to have, and something we just didn't even try last term when we were happy to concede possession and allow 20 shots per game. It means that even if we cannot create much ourselves, at least we're not making Bentley do all the work. It leads to ugly, low scoring games, but it increases the chances of us coming away with at least a draw.

We're soon playing some more teams that pass the ball well. Norwich, Derby, and our next opponents Bournemouth are all in the top 6 in the division for passes and pass completion. Breaking those teams up, as we've shown we can yesterday, will go a long way to reducing the threat to our goal.

[Phileas Fogg]

33 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Interesting to see who Holden would go with out of him and Massengo. I think it would be Massengo as he has made the bench ahead of him as well as starting 2 games this season.

I don't know if Brunt is capable of 2 games in a few days. I expect Bakinson to come back in. I think O'Dowda will get his first start too.

Of course Brunt is capable of two games in a week. You talk as if he's some sort of geriatric that needs to be wrapped in cotton wool. He is a professional football that until the last couple of years was playing in the Premier League. 

His role isn't a lung busting box-to-box role anyway. 

[Phileas Fogg]

18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Why would his Dad have people looking out for anyone slagging off his son? Not sure what he'd do with that information.

Probably take it personally and be a bit offended on his behalf. We've seen it before with players families. 

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well Bakinson likely to come in for him I think. Not sure Brunt has the legs for the box to box role so will miss out.

What about Bakinson and Brunt? Would be a more defensive blend but could be effective. Bakinson may thrive with someone of Brunt's experience alongside. 

[Sheltons Army]

15 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Probably take it personally and be a bit offended on his behalf. We've seen it before with players families. 

What about Bakinson and Brunt? Would be a more defensive blend but could be effective. Bakinson may thrive with someone of Brunt's experience alongside. 

What I would do personally

Id have Bakinson ,Brunt and either CoD or Pato in the three , although unlike Fevs I’d have TB centrally and Brunt on the left of the three - if DH wanted , bearing in mind it looks a tough test m he could play conservatively positionally with Pato allowed a bit more freedom 

If DH fancied a tinker You could even play with a double pivot in TB and CB with Pato playing ahead and in behind the front two 

 

[redcherryberry]

4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Probably take it personally and be a bit offended on his behalf. We've seen it before with players families. 

What about Bakinson and Brunt? Would be a more defensive blend but could be effective. Bakinson may thrive with someone of Brunt's experience alongside. 

Given we only have 18 fit players as it stands this is the combination I would like see, Bakinson next to Brunt. Pato moves further forward to Weimanns position with Martin & Ant uptop. 
 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

What I would do personally

Id have Bakinson ,Brunt and either CoD or Pato in the three , although unlike Fevs I’d have TB centrally and Brunt on the left of the three - if DH wanted , bearing in mind it looks a tough test m he could play conservatively positionally with Pato allowed a bit more freedom 

If DH fancied a tinker You could even play with a double pivot in TB and CB with Pato playing ahead and in behind the front two 

 

I agree. I think we have a good opportunity to play Brunt and Bakinson. There's also the attacking dimension of Brunt's set pieces. He could potentially be the best corner taker we've had in years so would be a shame to waste that.

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

There would be no point in that though.

"Mr O'Dowda people are slagging off your son on the Bristol City forum."

Mr O'Dowda: "Oh, Bloody hell, that's annoying! Well thanks, and carry on letting me know!"

Well you'd hope so but lots of players families take things a bit personally.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, redcherryberry said:

Given we only have 18 fit players as it stands this is the combination I would like see, Bakinson next to Brunt. Pato moves further forward to Weimanns position with Martin & Ant uptop. 
 

Agreed that's what I'd like to see. Only part I'm trying to decide on is whether it's worth persisting with Wells. He may be off form but he's always a goal threat and you get the feeling that once he gets a couple he will go on a scoring run. Neither Martin or Semenyo deserve dropping though so tough call. 

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well Bakinson likely to come in for him I think. Not sure Brunt has the legs for the box to box role so will miss out.

That’s why I’d play Either TB and CB together as a 2, or CB as the DM and TB the license to stretch his legs forward.

15 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

What I would do personally

Id have Bakinson ,Brunt and either CoD or Pato in the three , although unlike Fevs I’d have TB centrally and Brunt on the left of the three - if DH wanted , bearing in mind it looks a tough test m he could play conservatively positionally with Pato allowed a bit more freedom 

If DH fancied a tinker You could even play with a double pivot in TB and CB with Pato playing ahead and in behind the front two 

 

See, I thought he’d go AW / TB / CB v Swansea.  I think if you play CB on left of a three, I’d like some energy of the right to compensate.

But I think the two together in any shape makes sense.  Neither have to be box-to-box....we might need both to sit in on Wednesday....

15 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

There would be no point in that though.

"Mr O'Dowda people are slagging off your son on the Bristol City forum."

Mr O'Dowda: "Oh, Bloody hell, that's annoying! Well thanks, and carry on letting me know!"

 

On Brunt and Bakinson, I agree. Be interesting to see if Holden likes those 2 together or not.

 

DM’d you Jon.

[GrahamC]

52 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Of course Brunt is capable of two games in a week. You talk as if he's some sort of geriatric that needs to be wrapped in cotton wool. He is a professional football that until the last couple of years was playing in the Premier League. 

His role isn't a lung busting box-to-box role anyway. 

Agreed & with the game being on Wednesday, it is only 2 games in 5 days, which when compared to say, the Xmas period, is nothing.

I’d like Brunt & Bakinson to be paired against Bournemouth too, but with O’Dowda instead of Paterson, who looks like he could really do with a breather.

Worth bearing in mind that if Weimann is out for any period, with Mawson & Sessegnon joining our other longer term absentees, we are basically shuffling the same 18 players (Nagy & HNM plus those involved yesterday) until someone gets fit again, so some smart thought re selection will be needed, as an example of this whilst Brunt can do 2 in 5 days, he almost certainly won’t be starting the next 5 in 14.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Agreed & with the game being on Wednesday, it is only 2 games in 5 days, which when compared to say, the Xmas period, is nothing.

I’d like Brunt & Bakinson to be paired against Bournemouth too, but with O’Dowda instead of Paterson, who looks like he could really do with a breather.

Worth bearing in mind that if Weimann is out for any period, with Mawson & Sessegnon joining our other longer term absentees, we are basically shuffling the same 18 players (Nagy & HNM plus those involved yesterday) until someone gets fit again, so some smart thought re selection will be needed, as an example of this whilst Brunt can do 2 in 5 days, he almost certainly won’t be starting the next 5 in 14.

It’ll be like LJ all over again, forced into a side and finds form.  

I hope Sessegnon is just a tweak and not out for long....because that will put a lot of pressure on Hunt, who’s been one of our best players this season.

[DT The Optimist]

2 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

We could really do with Williams being fit, or play Bakinson in the holding role.

Having Walsh's creativity would be damn useful too.

Another 2 weeks again is it?

That’s been beaten to death on another thread, after next international break......we think 

[1960maaan]

21 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

That’s been beaten to death on another thread, after next international break......we think 

Let's hope they don't mean the Euro finals 

[1960maaan]

If what Holden is supposed to have said about building his side around Walsh has any truth, it could give an idea how his ideal team sets up.
He's keen on the 3-5-2, so 3 CB's and WB's. 3 CB's pick themselves (unless he throws Rowe in) Hunt is the only RWB and I would be surprised if he dropped JD after one game. Not only that , Rowe's versatility makes him a handy sub.
The 3 MF? Brunt will play unless there was an injury we didn't see. I also see Bakinson come in after his rest, I think he would have come on yesterday if it wasn't for the injuries. That leaves , at least in my mind Paterson as the third. With TB being more direct and happy to run with the ball I think you miss less from an AW to TB swap. That would (sort of ) give you what appears to be Holden's preferred set up, 1 DMF, 1 AMF & 1 other (Pato)..
The strikers? After quite a bold move of dropping Wells it's probably harder to guess. Though 2 games where Martin has dropped below his high standards of the start of the season . I would guess at a Wells & Fam pairing Wednesday, and it is a guess. Fam is slightly more mobile/busy (didn't think I'd be saying that) , and with Wells scoring (even though it was a Pen) I think we will go with our best goal scorer.

Not sure what I'd want/expect points wise from these two games, but if come 5pm Sunday we are still top 4 I'll be happy.

[Hampshire reds]

made a massive mistake selling jo Morrell. especially with no sign of walsh or Williams 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

It’ll be like LJ all over again, forced into a side and finds form.  

I hope Sessegnon is just a tweak and not out for long....because that will put a lot of pressure on Hunt, who’s been one of our best players this season.

Get what you are saying but some of the availability records of our players are pretty awful & although we are still comfortably placed in terms of midfield players as Massengo has barely featured & Nagy hasn’t at all in the league, that definitely isn’t the case at the back.

My hunch is Sessegnon will be out for a month, that looked a hamstring pull to me, so no way do I expect him back in the next fortnight, meaning he misses 4 games..

[Shtanley]

I think Wells and Semenyo could be a good partnership. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Unsure where we are with injuries, number we've had is incredible in fact this is 4th season in succession that is happening in. Anyway!

I'd be interested to see a CM 3 of in no particular order  same broad setup, of Bakinson-Nagy-Paterson.

Bakinson has had his rest, been quite defensive and ballwinning this season, Nagy is as always better in a CM 3 and Paterson, can pull left or pull up to create a 3-4-1-2 in some phases, help out DaSilva in others. I also think there's a bit more defensively than we've seen. Paterson of course can provide an end product or at least the threat of one, gives opposition a bit to think about.

Done a slightly deeper dive into Nagy's stats in Internationals this season and two things are evident. His defensive stats are better away from home, and he generally performs better in a CM 3.

Often ranging from good to excellent in terms of passing accuracy and you'd argue that Hungary certainly away to them aren't as good as Russia, Serbia or Turkey yet 2 wins and a draw, 3 clean sheets. Nagy definitely played his part in that defensively.

Well, it could be a bit like that for us on Wednesday. Bit horses for courses and see how it goes from there!

[tin]

59 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Unsure where we are with injuries, number we've had is incredible in fact this is 4th season in succession that is happening in. Anyway!

Funny that, I think the Desso pitch was laid in 2017/18 and I suspect the artificial elements of that is behind the ridiculous amount of injuries we’ve had ever since. The training pitches are the same as the one at the Gate, AFAIK. 

59 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd be interested to see a CM 3 of in no particular order  same broad setup, of Bakinson-Nagy-Paterson.

Bakinson has had his rest, been quite defensive and ballwinning this season, Nagy is as always better in a CM 3 and Paterson, can pull left or pull up to create a 3-4-1-2 in some phases, help out DaSilva in others. I also think there's a bit more defensively than we've seen. Paterson of course can provide an end product or at least the threat of one, gives opposition a bit to think about.

Done a slightly deeper dive into Nagy's stats in Internationals this season and two things are evident. His defensive stats are better away from home, and he generally performs better in a CM 3.

Often ranging from good to excellent in terms of passing accuracy and you'd argue that Hungary certainly away to them aren't as good as Russia, Serbia or Turkey yet 2 wins and a draw, 3 clean sheets. Nagy definitely played his part in that defensively.

Totally agree on Nagy, I think he has a role to play now. I think there’s a good player in there but it’s time for him to step up and show it or be moved on.

With Pato, I also agree with what you say about giving him in a free role behind the strikers. I suspect he’s running on close to empty at the moment and not being a natural CM, he’s out of his depth in there. 

[wendyredredrobin]

Other than injuries, we have other problems going into the Bournemouth game. Primarily, we need more bodies in midfield as we are not retaining the ball or creating enough (which makes our forwards look bad).  For this game, I would suggest a 4231 formation along the lines of:

          Bentley

Hunt Kalas Moore Rowe

     Bakinson  Brunt 

  O'Dowda  Nagy  Patto

            Martin

Assuming my understanding of the injury situation is correct and that Mawson, Sessegnon, JD and Andi Weimann will not be fit.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Other than injuries, we have other problems going into the Bournemouth game. Primarily, we need more bodies in midfield as we are not retaining the ball or creating enough (which makes our forwards look bad).  For this game, I would suggest a 4231 formation along the lines of:

          Bentley

Hunt Kalas Moore Rowe

     Bakinson  Brunt 

  O'Dowda  Nagy  Patto

            Martin

Assuming my understanding of the injury situation is correct and that Mawson, Sessegnon, JD and Andi Weimann will not be fit.

We retained the ball fine yesterday....it was the creativity bit we lacked.

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Other than injuries, we have other problems going into the Bournemouth game. Primarily, we need more bodies in midfield as we are not retaining the ball or creating enough (which makes our forwards look bad).  For this game, I would suggest a 4231 formation along the lines of:

          Bentley

Hunt Kalas Moore Rowe

     Bakinson  Brunt 

  O'Dowda  Nagy  Patto

            Martin

Assuming my understanding of the injury situation is correct and that Mawson, Sessegnon, JD and Andi Weimann will not be fit.

JD injured?

[wendyredredrobin]

Just now, Davefevs said:

We retained the ball fine yesterday....it was the creativity bit we lacked.

COD and Patto can be creative and I think Nagy is a fine passer to.  I was thinking of going 1 up top to control the midtield just for this game as I feel B'Muff will be our biggest test yet.  We have plenty of forward options on the bench if we find ourselves chasing the game 

[wendyredredrobin]

3 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

JD injured?

Dunno, thought I read that somewhere, but if not, I would start him at LB of course 

[Redrascal2]

10 hours ago, City oz said:

I see a 2-2 draw. Tough venues are now not tough venues under the covert restrictions as the larger clubs that did benefit from a massive home crowd of 20 or 30 K does this mean that it doesn’t matter if you are home or away this season. This season will result in a top six that can play in any environment with out the influence of a massive crowd and vocal support. I think this will benefit us this season and I see a definite top 6 finish.

Bournemouth a tough venue. Didn't think it was.

[Lanterne Rouge]

14 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Bournemouth a tough venue. Didn't think it was.

It`s a few years since I`ve seen us down there but we pretty much used to take the place over.

Always fun in Kings Park after mind!

[JamesBCFC]

5 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Let's hope they don't mean the Euro finals 

True, we could do with Williams being fit for them.

[tin]

1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

It`s a few years since I`ve seen us down there but we pretty much used to take the place over.

Always fun in Kings Park after mind!

Remember Jamie Smith scoring in stoppage time to salvage a 2-2 draw? Great scenes