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He's helped appoint a manager who has us in the play offs after a 1/6th of the season..... truly terrible. Judge Ashton when a proper assessment can be made of Dean's managerial skills.

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I allow both Eliasson & Palmer and to a lesser extent smosdics to leave taking away the sides creativity, means as a set we are very predictable and limited how we can change things around. And then not sign a replacement is odd, add that to the cb situation where we are down to the only 3 we can pick is poor from him. Then imo signing brunt where we where already top heavy with cm is weird one . 

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7 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said:

People might be slightly upset with Holden and his judgement and it can be questioned at times but let's not forget who should hang first   

The bogeyman calculator

Narrow, probably undeserved loss, away to probably best squad in league ... calculating...calculating...

COD? Manager? Taylor Moore? Not this time  

Correct answer: The CEO. 

Oh bogeyman calculator, you are full of surprises. But you are never wrong. And if you tell me I must now hate the CEO, then I hate him. Even if by and large I’m pretty happy with league position and standard of football.

Get my pitchfork, I’m headed to Ashton Gate. 

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7 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said:

Ashton is appointed to take the responsibility

But who appointed him? And who appointed them? Who is watching the watchmen? This thing goes deep. 
 

Look, I’m as angry as anyone about being two points off automatic promotion and giving best squad in league a real game away at their place. If we don’t act now, we could be three points off automatic promotion soon. Let’s get to the bottom of this terrible crisis. Root and branch reform. This thing goes deep. 

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7 hours ago, Lrrr said:

He's helped appoint a manager who has us in the play offs after a 1/6th of the season..... truly terrible. Judge Ashton when a proper assessment can be made of Dean's managerial skills.

I think the issue here is we are not creating chances having sold or moved on our creative players.  The bubble has already burst, we can’t score goals and are conceding.  Injuries have not helped the situation but that’s football 

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46 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

As it’s his man ? He bypassed managers with experience in place of Holden.  Why do you even need to ask why ? 

I can not see the need for any of this conversation. Too early in the season to make judgements on the Holden appt. And new players. 

Sit back enjoy the season it will have ups and downs as always. 

Are you really expecting top 6? 

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2 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I can not see the need for any of this conversation. Too early in the season to make judgements on the Holden appt. And new players. 

Sit back enjoy the season it will have ups and downs as always. 

Are you really expecting top 6? 

Yes otherwise why replace a manager ? If you want to finish 10-12 then stick with LJ, I can’t even see us finishing in the top 15 to be honest but the expectation was we had to improve and that’s why a manager is replaced.  The goal needs to be top 6 this season, wouldn’t want us to regress 

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16 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Too early to judge Ashton this season. So far he's done his job, we strengthened well (on paper) and got respectable deals for our outgoing players.

I've said before that in my opinion he 'lives and dies' (figuratively - sorry @bristolcitysweden) by the Holden appointment. If it turns out to be a flop then he probably should go. 

Look at some of his recent signings:

Williams - injured on arrival. Long spells of injury over the last couple of years.

Mawson - injured. Long spells of injuries previously.

Sessegnon - injured. Don’t know his previously availability record.

Kalas - long spells of injury ever since he’s been here.

JD- same. Long periods injured and unavailable.

Afobe - missed the whole season basically, having had two previous knee injuries.

Even if you go back a bit, we’ve had Duric and Pisano who were both gambles in terms of fitness.

This has become a real pattern of the players that we bring in. Are we looking at players with injury history because they’re cheaper and hoping that we can do a “Webster” on them, get them fit and sell them for more? If so, a hit rate of around 1 in 10 doesn’t look good.

We’ve ended up with a squad where the players are all of a pretty similar style or quality. You could arguably pick any three of Bakinson, Pato, O’Dowda, Walsh, Williams, Massengo and Nagy without any significant drop or raise in quality, or change in style.

This is where I think Ashton’s squad building has failed. As GJ would put it, there’s not enough clubs in the bag to mix things up. We had two of those, in Eliasson and Palmer, but the mismanagement of Niclas and the inability for Palmer to settle out paid to that. Equally, the failures of the Szmodics and Adelakun signings, who fit the profile of our second main source of signings - top players from the division below who never quite make it.

We were left in a position last night where we only had six subs. A squad with a decent academy like ours should never do that, IMO. We should fill the 7th place with a Towler or Edwards to give them match day experience. 

For a variety of reasons, Holden’s been left with a squad with so many midfielders that are pretty much clones of each other, three fit strikers and a set of central defenders who have asked for a revolving door to be fitted to the medical room.

That’s not setting your new Head Coach up to be successful.

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25 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I can not see the need for any of this conversation. Too early in the season to make judgements on the Holden appt. And new players. 

Sit back enjoy the season it will have ups and downs as always. 

Are you really expecting top 6? 

Anything less must be considered a failure

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3 hours ago, Johnr1986 said:

I allow both Eliasson & Palmer and to a lesser extent smosdics to leave taking away the sides creativity, means as a set we are very predictable and limited how we can change things around. And then not sign a replacement is odd, add that to the cb situation where we are down to the only 3 we can pick is poor from him. Then imo signing brunt where we where already top heavy with cm is weird one . 

So you are saying we should have signed a midfielder, but we also shouldn't have signed a midfielder because we had too many.

And we also should have signed a defender when Mawson got injured, even though the transfer window was shut.

 

Those sound like completely fair and valid criticisms.

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48 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Yes otherwise why replace a manager ? If you want to finish 10-12 then stick with LJ, I can’t even see us finishing in the top 15 to be honest but the expectation was we had to improve and that’s why a manager is replaced.  The goal needs to be top 6 this season, wouldn’t want us to regress 

LJ was replaced because not only were City going backwards under him but the football was continually dreadful.

He very much had to go.

We sell too many of our best players, too often, to expect to be a top 6 team; however we should have expectations of our manager to keep City securely in this division and genuinely compete against all opposition with football worth watching while we wait (perhaps) for the perfect season where everything clicks into place, we are fortunate with injuries, and enough goes our way for us to somehow manage to go up.

Top 6 may be a stated aim from the top but I doubt many of us really have expectations of City finishing in the play offs - finishing 11th would be progression on last season, don't forget, and top 6 would be a massive improvement.

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1 hour ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Look at some of his recent signings:

Williams - injured on arrival. Long spells of injury over the last couple of years.

Mawson - injured. Long spells of injuries previously.

Sessegnon - injured. Don’t know his previously availability record.

Kalas - long spells of injury ever since he’s been here.

JD- same. Long periods injured and unavailable.

Afobe - missed the whole season basically, having had two previous knee injuries.

Even if you go back a bit, we’ve had Duric and Pisano who were both gambles in terms of fitness.

This has become a real pattern of the players that we bring in. Are we looking at players with injury history because they’re cheaper and hoping that we can do a “Webster” on them, get them fit and sell them for more? If so, a hit rate of around 1 in 10 doesn’t look good.

Other players also brought in in that time, Ashley Williams, Martin, Wells, Massengo, Nagy, Brunt, Rowe and Bentley.

No doubt some others as well, those are just from the top of my head.

And even while I didnt really want to list Martin and Brunt, you cannot claim a player to be injury prone because they happened to get a knock in the 2 months since they joined and then apply a different standard to others who don't get injured in that time.

Equally it's not particularly fair to call a player injury prone if their leg snaps, as that's completely different so someone who gets a thigh strain (for example) every few months.

We’ve ended up with a squad where the players are all of a pretty similar style or quality. You could arguably pick any three of Bakinson, Pato, O’Dowda, Walsh, Williams, Massengo and Nagy without any significant drop or raise in quality, or change in style.

This is where I think Ashton’s squad building has failed. As GJ would put it, there’s not enough clubs in the bag to mix things up. We had two of those, in Eliasson and Palmer, but the mismanagement of Niclas and the inability for Palmer to settle out paid to that. Equally, the failures of the Szmodics and Adelakun signings, who fit the profile of our second main source of signings - top players from the division below who never quite make it.

We were left in a position last night where we only had six subs. A squad with a decent academy like ours should never do that, IMO. We should fill the 7th place with a Towler or Edwards to give them match day experience. 

We had a full compliment of 7 subs. 


For a variety of reasons, Holden’s been left with a squad with so many midfielders that are pretty much clones of each other, three fit strikers and a set of central defenders who have asked for a revolving door to be fitted to the medical room.

That’s not setting your new Head Coach up to be successful.

 

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35 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

LJ was replaced because not only were City going backwards under him but the football was continually dreadful.

He very much had to go.

We sell too many of our best players, too often, to expect to be a top 6 team; however we should have expectations of our manager to keep City securely in this division and genuinely compete against all opposition with football worth watching while we wait (perhaps) for the perfect season where everything clicks into place, we are fortunate with injuries, and enough goes our way for us to somehow manage to go up.

Top 6 may be a stated aim from the top but I doubt many of us really have expectations of City finishing in the play offs - finishing 11th would be progression on last season, don't forget, and top 6 would be a massive improvement.

You are right, we are very much a “selling our best assets” club, probably puts a number of top managers off coming here.  Likely we will never progress to the top flight though unless we change this.  Selling our best assets and starting again every new season is not really progressing this club 

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53 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

You are right, we are very much a “selling our best assets” club, probably puts a number of top managers off coming here.  Likely we will never progress to the top flight though unless we change this.  Selling our best assets and starting again every new season is not really progressing this club 

You have literally described every team apart from the top 6 in the EPL. 

 

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58 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

You are right, we are very much a “selling our best assets” club, probably puts a number of top managers off coming here.  Likely we will never progress to the top flight though unless we change this.  Selling our best assets and starting again every new season is not really progressing this club 

So how do you propose not losing more than £13m a year in the accounts? 

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12 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said:

People might be slightly upset with Holden and his judgement and it can be questioned at times but let's not forget who should hang first   

Don't we get a random music video anymore?

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2 hours ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Look at some of his recent signings:

Williams - injured on arrival. Long spells of injury over the last couple of years.

Mawson - injured. Long spells of injuries previously.

Sessegnon - injured. Don’t know his previously availability record.

Kalas - long spells of injury ever since he’s been here.

JD- same. Long periods injured and unavailable.

Afobe - missed the whole season basically, having had two previous knee injuries.

Even if you go back a bit, we’ve had Duric and Pisano who were both gambles in terms of fitness.

This has become a real pattern of the players that we bring in. Are we looking at players with injury history because they’re cheaper and hoping that we can do a “Webster” on them, get them fit and sell them for more? If so, a hit rate of around 1 in 10 doesn’t look good.

I think you raise a valid point here. We do seem to recruit players with a history of injuries in the hope one comes good ala Webster. That's exactly why we were able to recruit the likes of Mawson - clearly a very good player, but has recurring injuries.

You'd hope thought that the manager and physios are raising these concerns when such players are mooted.

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