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Paterson


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2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Spot on.

Some claim Walsh is virtually the son of God solely based on what he did in L1.

Aside from the fact that his availability record really isn’t great for us (not just this season, when he got his chance at Ipswich 2 seasons ago he went off injured & didn’t feature again all season), there is nothing to base this on, but apparently if he ever gets fit again he will be in the side in front of Paterson, we’ll see..

I am sure people can see a player at one level and judge whether they will be good at a level above.

It's why Toney was signed for such big money by Brentford. Are those attributes suited to the championship is the question.

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31 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

We lost, so many on here won’t be listening but I thought he was ok today & as has already been pointed out, provided another assist.

My problem is expecting him to start game after game without a break, could easily have put Nagy on after 65 & given him a rest but we made the same 3 subs every game, 2 strikers on & Brunt for Bakinson (or the other way round).

Yeah exactly. Had a good game 1st half against Bournemouth. Then was clearly absolutely knackered after 70, which was when he started misplacing passes.

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6 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Totally agree with this. 

Pato - the usual whipping boy of the forum. He was not that bad today - set up the goal and involved in a few moves. He can’t seem to play a full 90 minutes though 

Agree, he's a good number 10 and about at the same level we are at the moment. Not great but by no means not bad, build a team around our strengths and he could be a match winner for us and if not, replace him during the match..

Edited by M.D
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He popped up with an assist but a passenger for most of the game and is rarely in a position to make a tackle (Shock). Holden needs to weigh up whether that sort of contribution is enough. It wasn't for Eliasson. 

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7 minutes ago, M.D said:

Agree, he's a good number 10 and about at the same level we are at the moment. Not great but by no means not bad, build a team around our strengths and he could be a match winner for us and if not, replace him during the match..

Love to see him playing the number 10 role if we were in the 2nd div. Been with us for years never been good enough, never will!!!

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18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I am sure people can see a player at one level and judge whether they will be good at a level above.

It's why Toney was signed for such big money by Brentford. Are those attributes suited to the championship is the question.

Walsh had a good season at Coventry granted- he came here and to a large degree wasn’t picked by Johnson and sent out on loan. It’s a huge ask for people to expect Walsh to come back and be the answer 

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32 minutes ago, Kibs said:

He popped up with an assist but a passenger for most of the game and is rarely in a position to make a tackle (Shock). Holden needs to weigh up whether that sort of contribution is enough. It wasn't for Eliasson

Exactly this, but whilst other players have been rotated he keeps being picked come what may - Holden it seems just can't see it. I'm confident we would have done so much better with Nagy, Massengo & Bakinson starting. 

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1 hour ago, daored said:

Walsh had a good season at Coventry granted- he came here and to a large degree wasn’t picked by Johnson and sent out on loan. It’s a huge ask for people to expect Walsh to come back and be the answer 

I think it seems Walsh has improved a lot since being at Coventry. Even Coventry fans were not sure of him at first.

I think he looked like he had the natural ability for us before, but just needed more game time somewhere. And with his loan he would have learnt a lot, and looks like he has bulked up a bit too. 

His ability on the ball was clear even from the bits for us before he went out on loan. And he always seemed to want the ball in tight spaces, and was aggressive to try and win it back too. Passing off either foot was already obvious but other parts he needed to go away and work on.

If he is a better version of the player we had before then I am quite excited by that.

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1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

I think it seems Walsh has improved a lot since being at Coventry. Even Coventry fans were not sure of him at first.

I think he looked like he had the natural ability for us before, but just needed more game time somewhere. And with his loan he would have learnt a lot, and looks like he has bulked up a bit too. 

His ability on the ball was clear even from the bits for us before he went out on loan. And he always seemed to want the ball in tight spaces, and was aggressive to try and win it back too. Passing off either foot was already obvious but other parts he needed to go away and work on.

If he is a better version of the player we had before then I am quite excited by that.

Your last point is the most important ‘if’ and that is the unknown. What I think is certain is when he returns he will be in our squad / first 11

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12 minutes ago, daored said:

Your last point is the most important ‘if’ and that is the unknown. What I think is certain is when he returns he will be in our squad / first 11

I assume is he a lot better as Coventry fans said he improved loads from when he went there to the end of the season

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6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Gut feeling but I’m not sure we will see much of him in a City shirt at all.

 

I will contradict myself now and say I have that feeling as well!

I get the feeling (like Joe Morrell) that he wants out. But if that is not the case then I think he will be getting game time when back.

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4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I will contradict myself now and say I have that feeling as well!

I get the feeling (like Joe Morrell) that he wants out. But if that is not the case then I think he will be getting game time when back.

Not sure the Morrell wanted out, at leas not until Holden made it clear he wasn't in his first team plans. And when you think he was behind a 35 year old signed on a short contract this year you can understand it. I am starting to worry about those contract talks, Fam and Walsh both coming along nicely we keep hearing, have they signed? No !

I saw Walsh a couple of time on TV for Cov, read some bits and write ups, that along with what I saw in his cameos gave me hope. I loved to see him play head up, looking forward and able to play with both feet. He has vision too and a good strike, there is absolutely no reason to think he won't be good if he ever gets fit. Of course not guaranteed , but a better chance than many. 

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5 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Gut feeling but I’m not sure we will see much of him in a City shirt at all.

 

My gut feeling was he never wanted to come back from Coventry. They had no money to buy him. Wouldn't be surprised if he goes back there once he is able to negotiate a free transfer. The way LJ messed him about I don't think he wants to be here. DH has been talking him up which may be an attempt to turn it round which is falling on deaf ears. 

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16 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

My gut feeling was he never wanted to come back from Coventry. They had no money to buy him. Wouldn't be surprised if he goes back there once he is able to negotiate a free transfer. The way LJ messed him about I don't think he wants to be here. DH has been talking him up which may be an attempt to turn it round which is falling on deaf ears. 

Wouldn’t disagree with any of that

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23 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

My gut feeling was he never wanted to come back from Coventry. They had no money to buy him. Wouldn't be surprised if he goes back there once he is able to negotiate a free transfer. The way LJ messed him about I don't think he wants to be here. DH has been talking him up which may be an attempt to turn it round which is falling on deaf ears. 

That would be so bizarre. Especially if it was an LJ issue, yet DH also can't make any headway.

I remember him being bought (and not for an insignificant amount for us!) and touted as ready for the first team immediately. I'm pretty sure he even came on in the second half v Man City up at the Etihad almost immediately afterwards.

For him to leave on a free 2 or 3 years later to another Championship team would seem to indicate something has gone seriously wrong somewhere.

Edited by IAmNick
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9 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

My gut feeling was he never wanted to come back from Coventry. They had no money to buy him. Wouldn't be surprised if he goes back there once he is able to negotiate a free transfer. The way LJ messed him about I don't think he wants to be here. DH has been talking him up which may be an attempt to turn it round which is falling on deaf ears. 

They signed Gustavo Hamer to replace him, he cost them £1m so they clearly did have the money.

I agree though that something does not seem right here at all. I think too many are getting hung up about a comment Holden made about him being important to us, as he also said something very similar about Morrell, then sold him. I also have my doubts Morrell was ever injured, as I think it was always the case he was moving on once we signed Williams & Brunt.

I think Walsh is currently unavailable, but as has been shown by his contract saga, whether he would rather be here or at Coventry is far less clear, I think.

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I said this in the Palmer thread & think it should go in here. 

I think it's a bit of a myth that Paterson has done exceptionally well since coming back from Derby. 

He did well for 2/3 games after coming back, then went quiet and was even out of the team again iirc. 

Then when the season restarted again he did well for a couple of games, (Even though at Blackburn away he was shite but scored) 

Then this season he's started reasonably well, but the past few games he's been poor again. 

So this makes me wonder, is Paterson a player you need to leave out for a few games at a time, to get a tune from him for the 2/3 after you do so. He seems to do well after a break. 

Perhaps thats the way to have success with Pato. The first game he really doesn't perform, you leave him out rather than letting that 1 turn into 4/5 before dropping him.

That's the reason I'd have kept Palmer. I worry certain players get too comfortable with their place in the team

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18 hours ago, daored said:

 It’s a huge ask for people to expect Walsh to come back and be the answer 

Agree, but let's give him a minimum 6 match run in the side and that should determine whether his 2nd half appearance against Stoke now 2 years ago [!] was a one off.

I don't think he'll sign if he isn't given a chance and might not anyway but you can be sure that Coventry will be in for him in the summer if he doesn't.

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1 hour ago, Carey 6 said:

 

I said this in the Palmer thread & think it should go in here. 

I think it's a bit of a myth that Paterson has done exceptionally well since coming back from Derby. 

He did well for 2/3 games after coming back, then went quiet and was even out of the team again iirc. 

Then when the season restarted again he did well for a couple of games, (Even though at Blackburn away he was shite but scored) 

Then this season he's started reasonably well, but the past few games he's been poor again. 

So this makes me wonder, is Paterson a player you need to leave out for a few games at a time, to get a tune from him for the 2/3 after you do so. He seems to do well after a break. 

Perhaps thats the way to have success with Pato. The first game he really doesn't perform, you leave him out rather than letting that 1 turn into 4/5 before dropping him.

That's the reason I'd have kept Palmer. I worry certain players get too comfortable with their place in the team

Just make sure you pick the right games to play him and the right ones to leave him out 😂😂😂

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

Agree, but let's give him a minimum 6 match run in the side and that should determine whether his 2nd half appearance against Stoke now 2 years ago [!] was a one off.

I don't think he'll sign if he isn't given a chance and might not anyway but you can be sure that Coventry will be in for him in the summer if he doesn't.

Yep, really need to judge him in a City shirt.

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20 hours ago, When the river runs said:

He set up our goal

Issue is river, is that he's playing pretty mediocre or poorly 90% of matches and getting a free pass as he grabs a goal or an assist.

Pato on form is good. Issue being thats about every 1 in 8 games.

This is less of issue in a wide area as he'd get some support from fullback, in theory, but in the middle his basic decision making is crap at best, runs into blind avenues consistently, and just doesn't have the positional sense to play a central role, which kets face it, he isn't a centre mid.

We've had two managers who have blindly kept faith with him, when he's consistently not been good enough at this level. The big issue is that Pato doesn't take the responsibility that came with the role, he doesn't look to get involved  once we get pressed, that's the big reason he goes missing.

At least if Nagy were in his role, the latter knows how to rotate and drop to keep the tempo in midfield, we know he's capable of it, Fulham and QPR last season he was sublime. The big issue we have is that our wing backs have been crap.

If I could, with our current crop available, pick a team, I would just go;

Bentley, Vyner, Moore, Kalas, Hunt, Bakinson, Massengo, Nagy, O'Dowda, Semenyo, Martin.

Ultimately, we may just need to switch to 4atb, if our defence keeps underperforming. We need Williams and Walsh back also.

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19 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Gut feeling but I’m not sure we will see much of him in a City shirt at all.

 

I wouldn't dismiss gut feelings at all, in fact it's strange how often they turn out to be right.

Interested to know the cause of yours (if there is one!) in Walsh's case Shelts.

Is it his injury being much worse than they are letting on?

Length of time to sign a contract? ( understandable imo. if he was delaying due to excessive midfield competition meaning he felt it unlikely he'd get the opportunity to make his mark here, but the path looks clearer now) If it's the contract situation, do you feel the same about Paterson - also OOC in the Summer and not signed up?

Personal fall out with DH?

DH doesn't actually rate him despite the fine words?

You simply don't think he's good enough?

I also have a gut feeling about Walsh - that, given a proper run in the team in his best position he will very likely shine, become a mainstay of a more exciting and creative midfield, and go on to be a very saleable asset in a year/18 months.

 

 

Edited by Nogbad the Bad
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