Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

IGNORED

Stick or Twist


Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Continue with 3-5-2 or revert to 4-4-2. 
 

Does “Deano” have the belief in his preferred formation to continue with it? 
 

I don’t think we’re really playing 352... we are on paper but for me it’s 5122... which even looks stupid written down. We need to get two sitting midfielders and one attacking - but with the wingbacks really pushing on... 3412 (more like the Cotterill’s promotion team). 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The lack of experience of our young defenders through no fault of their own has caused the issues. You can’t lose players like Baker and Masson, without feeling the effects. The concentration needed to play twice a week is immense. Deano needs some reinforcements. In the meantime it’s a case of hang on lads. Let’s not start the blame the head coach already,

  • Like 4
  • Robin 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to see us revert to a sort of 4-3-1-2 formation that's relatively fluid in midfield - If everyone was fit or not on loan, I'd be having

              Bentley

Hunt Kalas Mawson Dasilva

  Walsh Bakinson Williams

              Palmer

           Wells Martin 

Hunt and Dasilva can still get forward high as long as one of TB or JW sit slightly. I also think that midfield 3 (for a start are central midfielders) but compliment each other quite well.

I think Palmer is the most gifted player at the club. My main gripe when he plays is that he doesn't affect the game enough because he drops too deep to get it and play. Let him coast between the defensive and midfield lines of the opposition, turn players like he can and affect the game higher up the pitch.

Having a proper midfield will also mean Wells and Martin don't have to drop back. so deep so when he do win the ball, we have players forward.

Mawson is crocked so Vyner/Moore in for him. Walsh and Williams don't appear to exist, but Nagy has the attributes to be an all rounder. Massengo will also have to step up. Pato can be technically very good, but only seems to do it for 5 minutes of a game.

Edited by grifty
  • Flames 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Being fair, you have to see injuries have decimated any ideas Holden had for a preferred starting XI.
Williams was targeted as holding MF, I saw somewhere Holden quoted as wanting build around Walsh. Our 3 CB's could have been Mawson, Kalas and Baker. JD would have started the season.  That is some way from where we are.

Now we have 3 fit CB's and the rotation would come from a midfielder who fills in at LWB, that's it. I thought yesterday we improved when we went to a back 4, but that was when Norwich were fairly comfortable and didn't need to push the game. Brunt isn't that mobile so he could play just in front of the CB's , but as a loan CMF I think no. I hope Holden goes 4-1-2-1-2 or 4-3-1-2 or some variation of, but 2 genuine MF with another holding. We need to stop being so easy to play against. 

Oh, and get players fit, and contracts signed . 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Oh, and I thought it had something to do with the fact he refused to sign a new contract. 

You know, the one offered after much negotiation.

Works both ways that though.  Why would he have signed a contract when he was never chosen regularly or fully believed in?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Don’t think the debate is between 3-5-2 & 4-4-2 (as hardly anyone but Burnley genuinely plays the latter these days) but between having a back 3, with wing backs, which some on here see as a back five, or a back four.

Hard to draw too many conclusions on the second half yesterday as Norwich had already won the game (I know if we had scored the penalty, Martin’s excellent effort had gone in off the post, etc but they didn’t..)

But we certainly didn’t look any less solid though with a four, Moore is also having a tough time being asked to play on the left of a 3, so lining up;

Hunt Vyner Kalas Dasilva/Rowe at the back is certainly worth a try, we then need at least one midfielder screening the back four, which presumably would be Bakinson. I would like Nagy to get a chance alongside him, Paterson needs a break, so O’Dowda & Semenyo seem the logical wide players in a system without wing backs, this would mean Massengo or Brunt for the last spot, I’d give Han Noah a chance, too.

So;

Bentley

Hunt Vyner Kalas Dasilva 

Bakinson Nagy

Semenyo Massengo O’Dowda 

Martin

I accept that side on paper looks short of goals (& fully expect Holden to persevere with Brunt & not rest Paterson) but with 2 games in 4 days coming up it has a lot of fresh legs in midfield & is worth a try.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Continue with 3-5-2 or revert to 4-4-2. 
 

Does “Deano” have the belief in his preferred formation to continue with it? 
 

Is “Deano” running out of options. I think he is. Mainly a combination of injuries but I think the the issue is he could be the wrong guy for the job. 

Now I’ve opened a can of worms haven’t I.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Roe said:

Works both ways that though.  Why would he have signed a contract when he was never chosen regularly or fully believed in?

Not exactly the point I was trying to make.

He was offered a new contract  therefore we wanted to keep him.

I loved watching NE, but too often it was like he wasn't there, but no one can say we didn't want to keep him

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Galley is our king said:

Not exactly the point I was trying to make.

He was offered a new contract  therefore we wanted to keep him.

I loved watching NE, but too often it was like he wasn't there, but no one can say we didn't want to keep him

 

 

I think the fact that he ended up at Nimes for £2.25m shows that his agent to some extent mislead him and turned his head.  Do you think Eliasson thought he’d end up at Nimes?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think the fact that he ended up at Nimes for £2.25m shows that his agent to some extent mislead him and turned his head.  Do you think Eliasson thought he’d end up at Nimes?

Agree but then he wouldn't be plaubg here as we are stuck playing 5-3-2 and seem to actively not want any width as Neither Hunt or Dasilva will attack the byline, so having Nic would be a complete waste of time. 

At the end of the day we have picked a manager that was an integral part of of the regime that failed previously, we really cannot be surprised when we then show the majority of the same traits that we showed before. 

We are pedestrian going forward with no real creativity, we do not apply pressure on the opposition when we do dominate choosing to pat the ball around 40/50 yards from goal. 

It's the same shit in a different formation. The streaks are still clearly there and for the same reason we still have a manager that cannot adjust when things work to keep them working. 

I think we could all see that the 1 midfielder midfield was having difficulties even when we were winning and it should have been tweaked back then. 

If we start the next game 4-4-2 then for me that just proves that Holden is nothing more than Johnson mark 2 and has no tactical ability at all and can only throw different formations at a problem and not actually see what is wrong and fix it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would stick and adjust. A short time signing would go a long way. If not I’d play Kalas lcb and have him and Vyner stay a bit more narrow. Moore seems to relish that central role a bit more and has a better feel to his positioning there. 
 

Think we do generally create 3-4 good chances a game and usually put a couple away. Yesterday was unusual really for Wells to miss so many. Perhaps a sign confidence has taken a hit after a strong start? 
 

I would drop Brunt completely. Never got the signing. Has to be Bakinson with 2 of Pato/Massengo/Nagy. COD not doing it for me. I’d rather him be back up wingback and Rowe as CM option. We move the ball a lot quicker under DH and think this would suit Nagy and Massengo. Baffling they haven’t been given a chance. Both foreign and away from home and had tough seasons last one out. Hard for them to change that mentality in training with no opportunity. I think with some opportunities they could perk up and help the team. Even if not long term they are competent options for this season especially with Walsh and Williams being out. When they are back you can look at resting Bakinson a bit with Williams playing deeper. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spud55 said:

Agree but then he wouldn't be plaubg here as we are stuck playing 5-3-2 and seem to actively not want any width as Neither Hunt or Dasilva will attack the byline, so having Nic would be a complete waste of time. 

At the end of the day we have picked a manager that was an integral part of of the regime that failed previously, we really cannot be surprised when we then show the majority of the same traits that we showed before. 

We are pedestrian going forward with no real creativity, we do not apply pressure on the opposition when we do dominate choosing to pat the ball around 40/50 yards from goal. 

It's the same shit in a different formation. The streaks are still clearly there and for the same reason we still have a manager that cannot adjust when things work to keep them working. 

I think we could all see that the 1 midfielder midfield was having difficulties even when we were winning and it should have been tweaked back then. 

If we start the next game 4-4-2 then for me that just proves that Holden is nothing more than Johnson mark 2 and has no tactical ability at all and can only throw different formations at a problem and not actually see what is wrong and fix it. 

Is it the same shit though? Krul made one very good save and one worldly from Martin. We scored, missed a penalty and created other dangerous situations. Same in the first half at Bournemouth. I really don’t remember us losing games having created numerous chances under Johnson. There were loads of games where I felt I could have kept a clean sheet whereas if Norwich gave me a game between the sticks yesterday I wouldn’t have been getting another one next week😂. It was turgid, grind out stuff for the most part under LJ I remember correctly.

You may feel the results are currently same shit, different manager and that is a fair point but I’m not seeing the same approach. If anything we are too open in the pursuit of goals, the balance isn’t there yet.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Is it the same shit though? Krul made one very good save and one worldly from Martin. We scored, missed a penalty and created other dangerous situations. Same in the first half at Bournemouth. I really don’t remember us losing games having created numerous chances under Johnson. There were loads of games where I felt I could have kept a clean sheet whereas if Norwich gave me a game between the sticks yesterday I wouldn’t have been getting another one next week😂. It was turgid, grind out stuff for the most part under LJ I remember correctly.

You may feel the results are currently same shit, different manager and that is a fair point but I’m not seeing the same approach. If anything we are too open in the pursuit of goals, the balance isn’t there yet.

Nor me.

I do think we get to see against Huddersfield and Cardiff whereabouts we are.  A quarter of the season gone, a good mix of opposition strength and types.

If we play poorly in both that will be a concern for me, but bar Boro where it was sterile, we haven’t played as turgidly in any other games this season (imho).  We had numerous crap performances last season, where we looked devoid of ideas, whether that was 5212, 442, 4231....often in the same game.

It would be good to break the winless run before the break too.

But if we can play decently in both then there’s room for optimism too.

Your final sentence resonates.

Edited by Davefevs
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

It was turgid, grind out stuff for the most part under LJ I remember correctly.

You may feel the results are currently same shit, different manager and that is a fair point but I’m not seeing the same approach. If anything we are too open in the pursuit of goals, the balance isn’t there yet.

You are spot on in your analysis there.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 31/10/2020 at 09:36, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Continue with 3-5-2 or revert to 4-4-2. 
 

Does “Deano” have the belief in his preferred formation to continue with it? 
 

Yes he has the belief. The question is does he have the players!.....Walsh, Williams, Baker, Sessegnon, Weimann, Mawson, plus we have already had Desilva Kalas, Odowda unavailable. All of these players could reasonably Be in the first team together

Thus We have our annual early season crisis of injuries. I don’t know what will happen but if he went 442 you could see the logic.

The problem is he has is no one is showing anything like a bit of form right through the side, Nakhi Wells dreadful three pointer from 12 yards hammered that home!

This is Holdens first massive test (well beyond big) I guess we will see how we cope!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Don’t think the debate is between 3-5-2 & 4-4-2 (as hardly anyone but Burnley genuinely plays the latter these days) but between having a back 3, with wing backs, which some on here see as a back five, or a back four.

Hard to draw too many conclusions on the second half yesterday as Norwich had already won the game (I know if we had scored the penalty, Martin’s excellent effort had gone in off the post, etc but they didn’t..)

But we certainly didn’t look any less solid though with a four, Moore is also having a tough time being asked to play on the left of a 3, so lining up;

Hunt Vyner Kalas Dasilva/Rowe at the back is certainly worth a try, we then need at least one midfielder screening the back four, which presumably would be Bakinson. I would like Nagy to get a chance alongside him, Paterson needs a break, so O’Dowda & Semenyo seem the logical wide players in a system without wing backs, this would mean Massengo or Brunt for the last spot, I’d give Han Noah a chance, too.

So;

Bentley

Hunt Vyner Kalas Dasilva 

Bakinson Nagy

Semenyo Massengo O’Dowda 

Martin

I accept that side on paper looks short of goals (& fully expect Holden to persevere with Brunt & not rest Paterson) but with 2 games in 4 days coming up it has a lot of fresh legs in midfield & is worth a try.

I like that team 👍

Particularly for an away game, lots of youth, energy and industry. 

Naturally, Williams would come in for Nagy, and Walsh for Massengo when they're ready.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Is it the same shit though? Krul made one very good save and one worldly from Martin. We scored, missed a penalty and created other dangerous situations. Same in the first half at Bournemouth. I really don’t remember us losing games having created numerous chances under Johnson. There were loads of games where I felt I could have kept a clean sheet whereas if Norwich gave me a game between the sticks yesterday I wouldn’t have been getting another one next week😂. It was turgid, grind out stuff for the most part under LJ I remember correctly.

You may feel the results are currently same shit, different manager and that is a fair point but I’m not seeing the same approach. If anything we are too open in the pursuit of goals, the balance isn’t there yet.

 

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nor me.

I do think we get to see against Huddersfield and Cardiff whereabouts we are.  A quarter of the season gone, a good mix of opposition strength and types.

If we play poorly in both that will be a concern for me, but bar Boro where it was sterile, we haven’t played as turgidly in any other games this season (imho).  We had numerous crap performances last season, where we looked devoid of ideas, whether that was 5212, 442, 4231....often in the same game.

It would be good to break the winless run before the break too.

But if we can play decently in both then there’s room for optimism too.

Your final sentence resonates.

And the stats support this more moderate view. We might have been open at the back yesterday, but Norwich weren't defensively watertight either. Although we've lost two in a row we've done ok offensively.

For me the biggest concern is that you could pull up the key stats (shots for, against, passing, tackles, possession, xG etc) from the first 9 this season and the first 9 last season and I'd challenge anyone to tell me which was which. To me that suggests that we're in much the same place as we perhaps were last season.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

And the stats support this more moderate view. We might have been open at the back yesterday, but Norwich weren't defensively watertight either. Although we've lost two in a row we've done ok offensively.

For me the biggest concern is that you could pull up the key stats (shots for, against, passing, tackles, possession, xG etc) from the first 9 this season and the first 9 last season and I'd challenge anyone to tell me which was which. To me that suggests that we're in much the same place as we perhaps were last season.

DMing you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...