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Why is the reaction over the top?


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It’s been creeping in the past couple of seasons. I blame social media but it’s even more prevalent now that every single game is televised.

Player A has a good game and is a world beater. Player A then has a bad game and is shit.

I like to think that fans on here are a bit more levelled with their responses as opposed to say a well known City Facebook page but this place is becoming unbearable after a defeat. 
 

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To be honest I thought we done ok today, looked good going forward just got done at the back. In the last few games we've been looking solid at the back just not that good going forward and getting done by a bit of a quality or a mistake. Just need to combine the two

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I'm just seeing exactly what I said would happen, we've come up against two of the better teams in this league and it's shown that this team is not a top 6 team and never was going to be under Holden. 

I'm genuinely quite interested to see if anyone can make a team that's been promoted playing 3-5-2/5-3-2, I can't think of any. I also don't see why at any point Holden was going to make this club stronger when he spent 3 years as an understudy to someone who was sacked for underachieving. 

Our opening games were against weak opposition or clubs having a crisis of their own. Stoke couldn't score, Forest were obviously having managerial problems etc now we've played two teams who have been Prem last season and the difference really shows. I'm sure Holden may get us top half this season but I would not expect a top 6 at all. 

With regards to our fans turning on Wells, well, he's not the first striker to come to us with a decent scoring record on good form and suddenly take a dip in scoring. I don't think for a second that's him not wanting to score goals or succeed here, that's down to how we go about creating chances. Wells is a good in the box, pouncing on rebounds, chasing down chances created by mistakes by the opposition, or getting into dangerous positions from low across the box passes. That's the issue with Wells, we don't play a style that creates those chances and that's not his issue, that's down to the coach and the tactics he says up to play. 

I honestly think the reason we have little success with our managers is because none of them look at the players they have and build a team based on their strengths, instead they build a tactic/formation and try to push players into those roles that don't suit them. 

LJ and Holden both did /do this. Eliasson playing in the middle, as a wing back etc was a prime example of this, he was /is an attacking winger, his strength is getting wide, running at players and putting the ball in the box. Instead we'd put him in a role that required him to come back, defend and chase the counter attack when he's better suited leading it. 

Holden is just like LJ, wants that 3-5-2, doesn't have the players to play it but is going to keep on trying anyway. We have far too many square pegs in round holes and you only need to look at the players we've sold and how much better they've done when not being moved around and told to play roles that do not suit them. 

This will be another frustrating season where fans love Holden when we win and cuss him out when we lose without understanding why we're losing. I personally think Holden is no different to LJ, honestly what has he changed tactically? 

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I think the nonsense of suggesting that we might make a push for promotion this year is responsible.

Our squad is comprised of mid-ranking Championship players, without any outstanding ones.  And we have a total novice as Head Coach.  The odds against that coming off are massive.

The realistic aim this season in those circumstances is to avoid relegation.  Form over the last 5 matches is relegation form - 2 points out of 15.  Luckily, we got lots of undeserved points in the first 4 games and this has stopped us sitting in the relegation zone with Wycombe and Sheffield Wednesday.

it’s unlikely Holden will be able to prevent a plummet down the table but the early lucky points have given him a bit of time before the Board will need to act.

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I wouldn’t say it was over the top, I would say it was delayed by the unexpected good start we made.

This moment was always going to come. Were we hoping DH would prove us all wrong, of course. But that’s all it was, hope. We are now seeing what a majority of people expected to see, which is little has changed from what has happened in the previous 4 seasons.

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40 minutes ago, David Brent said:

It’s been creeping in the past couple of seasons. I blame social media but it’s even more prevalent now that every single game is televised.

Player A has a good game and is a world beater. Player A then has a bad game and is shit.

I like to think that fans on here are a bit more levelled with their responses as opposed to say a well known City Facebook page but this place is becoming unbearable after a defeat. 
 

I like that you're a glass half full man David. Anyone who expects people on OTIB to be more levelled deserves to get rewarded further down the line. 

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The reason the reaction is so over the top is that as with Brexit, Covid measures and almost everything else in society at the moment people have polarised views and seek to justify their opinion with every move. There is no fence sitting just one side or the other. City win and one section has to hammer home that they were right. City lose and it’s crap players, crap management blah blah blah from the other side. People have agendas and being right seems to be all that matters

The rush to praise or condemn is like a tidal wave. Reasonable discussion is like an oasis of pleasure on here. Of late it’s a place for entrenched opinions for the most part. Even humour seems in short supply sadly.

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49 minutes ago, David Brent said:

It’s been creeping in the past couple of seasons. I blame social media but it’s even more prevalent now that every single game is televised.

Player A has a good game and is a world beater. Player A then has a bad game and is shit.

I like to think that fans on here are a bit more levelled with their responses as opposed to say a well known City Facebook page but this place is becoming unbearable after a defeat. 
 

It’s not even a good or bad game, a player, usually a defender, has one bad touch and he’s shit and playing in the wrong division 

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21 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

I wouldn’t say it was over the top, I would say it was delayed by the unexpected good start we made.

This moment was always going to come. Were we hoping DH would prove us all wrong, of course. But that’s all it was, hope. We are now seeing what a majority of people expected to see, which is little has changed from what has happened in the previous 4 seasons.

It was definitely over the top after 4 wins though. My point is it seems to go both ways.

I don’t know if it’s attention seeking 

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A lot of our performance will be down to how we play.

Lets use Fam as an example. He has a bad game alongside Weimann in the past and he's useless, can't control it, can't pass etc.

Playing up top on his own, certainly when away from home he is a nightmare to defend against and it frees up runners on the counter. 

Suddenly a rubbish player is a bloody good one. Of course it's down to them, but they mostly have limitations and its about playing them in a way that will show their strengths.

I bet today there would have been some way a manager could have set us up to get a result, or at least to defend a lot better.

We were good going forward, and maybe after mid week more attention was put into that than the defensive aspect of the game which we have generally done very well this season.

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37 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm just seeing exactly what I said would happen, we've come up against two of the better teams in this league and it's shown that this team is not a top 6 team and never was going to be under Holden. 

I'm genuinely quite interested to see if anyone can make a team that's been promoted playing 3-5-2/5-3-2, I can't think of any. I also don't see why at any point Holden was going to make this club stronger when he spent 3 years as an understudy to someone who was sacked for underachieving. 

Our opening games were against weak opposition or clubs having a crisis of their own. Stoke couldn't score, Forest were obviously having managerial problems etc now we've played two teams who have been Prem last season and the difference really shows. I'm sure Holden may get us top half this season but I would not expect a top 6 at all. 

With regards to our fans turning on Wells, well, he's not the first striker to come to us with a decent scoring record on good form and suddenly take a dip in scoring. I don't think for a second that's him not wanting to score goals or succeed here, that's down to how we go about creating chances. Wells is a good in the box, pouncing on rebounds, chasing down chances created by mistakes by the opposition, or getting into dangerous positions from low across the box passes. That's the issue with Wells, we don't play a style that creates those chances and that's not his issue, that's down to the coach and the tactics he says up to play. 

I honestly think the reason we have little success with our managers is because none of them look at the players they have and build a team based on their strengths, instead they build a tactic/formation and try to push players into those roles that don't suit them. 

LJ and Holden both did /do this. Eliasson playing in the middle, as a wing back etc was a prime example of this, he was /is an attacking winger, his strength is getting wide, running at players and putting the ball in the box. Instead we'd put him in a role that required him to come back, defend and chase the counter attack when he's better suited leading it. 

Holden is just like LJ, wants that 3-5-2, doesn't have the players to play it but is going to keep on trying anyway. We have far too many square pegs in round holes and you only need to look at the players we've sold and how much better they've done when not being moved around and told to play roles that do not suit them. 

This will be another frustrating season where fans love Holden when we win and cuss him out when we lose without understanding why we're losing. I personally think Holden is no different to LJ, honestly what has he changed tactically? 

Good post, one thing I’d disagree is that I think Holden had the players for 352 (might be flawed thinking - time will tell)....but to suggest LJ stuck with anything is not true....he couldn’t resist changing.  In fact probably our most attractive spell last season was early on in the 5212 / 3412.

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Just now, Alan Dicks said:

Player A has a good game and he’s on 25 k per week.

Player A has a poor game and he’s on 25k per week.

Worker A Has a good week and he’s on 25k per year.

worker A Has a bad week and he gets the poke.

Not sure employment law allows your 4th line.  How many people do you actually know who’ve been sacked for a bad week’s performance?

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44 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm genuinely quite interested to see if anyone can make a team that's been promoted playing 3-5-2/5-3-2, I can't think of any.

Bielsa uses 3 at the back at Leeds but he plays a 3-3-3-1 formation.
 

Wilder got Sheffield United up playing 3 at the back, 2 of which were attacking centre backs. After a few years of success, they have struggled so far this season, but it is possible to make it work.

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I don’t think it is OTT. The problems have been there for 2-3 seasons. LJ couldn’t sort it out and then the job was given to Dean Holden who was part of the problem. I think people are fed up with a lot of hype and no deliverables. The strange signings don’t help -  eg Massengo and Nagy who were signed to play in the first team last season and now can’t get onto the pitch. 

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38 minutes ago, David Brent said:

It was definitely over the top after 4 wins though. My point is it seems to go both ways.

I don’t know if it’s attention seeking 

I think that’s because those who backed the appointment had four games of ‘I told you so’ followed by those against the appointment now saying ‘I told you so’

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2 hours ago, David Brent said:

It’s been creeping in the past couple of seasons. I blame social media but it’s even more prevalent now that every single game is televised.

Player A has a good game and is a world beater. Player A then has a bad game and is shit.

I like to think that fans on here are a bit more levelled with their responses as opposed to say a well known City Facebook page but this place is becoming unbearable after a defeat. 
 

Hasn't it always been thus?

Even pre-internet, the football conversation was hardly Voltaire in a Paris salon, debating whether Candide was better in a 6 or 8 role.

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6 minutes ago, David Brent said:

Definitely worse now. People never used to react so strongly to a single moment or game

To be fair people are not reacting to a single moment or game but a series of poor moments and successive games without winning, an art perfected by the previous Head Coach.

However I really think we played badly against Boro, but not so bad in the other four. 

We have a problem taking chances, but we also have the usual massive injury problems, which have lead to a team no one would have picked nine games ago, so to your point, yes there is an over reaction, mainly because many don’t see how this is going to end any time soon!

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1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

Bielsa uses 3 at the back at Leeds but he plays a 3-3-3-1 formation.
 

Wilder got Sheffield United up playing 3 at the back, 2 of which were attacking centre backs. After a few years of success, they have struggled so far this season, but it is possible to make it work.

Fair enough but I do think Bielsa has just a little more experience in the world of football and if you compare those squads to our squad I don't think many of ours would make it into their starting line up's would they?
My point is that Holden is not even close to being on the level of Bielsa tactically and Bielsa had/has a much stronger squad, hence Leeds are holding their own in the Premier League. 

This squad is not a Premier League team in the making, the performances (even the wins) are nowhere near strong enough, Holden is already making questionable substitutions and since we lost we haven't showed any signs of bouncing back stronger which is exactly what a promotion team can do.

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Don't think people are any more or less critical / reactive now than they ever have been, I think it's just that different opinions are easier to come across.

Most of us go to the games or hang out with people who have a broadly similar opinion / demeanour to us so seem less reactive. Go on a forum like this and you have a huge variety instead.

I expect if you stopped and talked to 200 random people leaving AG after a 3 - 1 loss 40 years ago you'd have heard all the same things!

You can look almost 20 years ago at threads on this forum and they're exactly the same as now.

Edited by IAmNick
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