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Vyner


Bs4Red
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Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall. 

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January. 

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par. 

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners. 

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

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Kiefer Moore is an international striker who will cause problems for most defenders in this league with his movement, strength and jumping to judge Vyner against him is a bit unfair. 

Vyner has come a long way even since last season and looks a decent player. Can play in a 3 or 2 central defence, can play at right back if needed. In the games I've watched he's been decent. 

Whilst I agree we need to strengthen CB in January it's more to do with injuries rather than Zak Vyner. 

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1 minute ago, BetterRedthenBlue said:

Kiefer Moore is an international striker who will cause problems for most defenders in this league with his movement, strength and jumping to judge Vyner against him is a bit unfair. 

Vyner has come a long way even since last season and looks a decent player. Can play in a 3 or 2 central defence, can play at right back if needed. In the games I've watched he's been decent. 

Whilst I agree we need to strengthen CB in January it's more to do with injuries rather than Zak Vyner. 

As I said just an opinion I just feel over a season he will cost us a lot. As he already has. 

I understand the Moore being good in the air but 4/5 occasions Vyner lost him at corners. We just were not punished

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7 minutes ago, eardun said:

I accept that he is still learning/developing, but to suggest that ‘he is so far out of his depth’ when we sit on 20 points after 11 games and after the clean sheet tonight  - come on! 

I mean if we had anyone else of championship quality would Vyner be in this side? 

If Baker or Mawson we’re fit, I feel Kalas has been an unsung hero recently. 

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2 defenders who'd probably be ahead of him in the pecking order down he's doing a very good job of stepping up as he probably started the season as 5th choice. People say we need to upgrade on him, who can we get on reasonable wages who'd be happy to sit behind Mawson/Baker? Unless you're advocating a new 1st choice alongside Kalas in which case then perhaps choose a transfer window in a season that isn't damaging our finances so badly, the PL clubs highlighted us as a club they won't help due to Lansdown being our owner, can't go spend millions on a centre back. Vyner won't get better unless he plays and this season is the best time for him to get that chance. 

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1 minute ago, Bs4Red said:

I mean if we had anyone else of championship quality would Vyner be in this side? 

If Baker or Mawson we’re fit, I feel Kalas has been an unsung hero recently. 

If you want to compare him against others in the championship compare him against how good other teams 4th/5th CB's are as thats what he was for us at the start of the season.

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15 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall. 

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January. 

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par. 

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners. 

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

Just had his best game for us and you post this. Wow. 

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Just now, Lrrr said:

If you want to compare him against others in the championship compare him against how good other teams 4th/5th CB's are as thats what he was for us at the start of the season.

Yeah I understand that, I mean he’s boosted by his versatility to play RB also. 

I just don’t think if promotion is the target Vyner is not the answer and my feeling is we will bolster that area.

i may be wrong and I might change my mind on him. Just think he is ever so weak for a CB but the game is also going that way these days I guess

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13 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall. 

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January. 

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par. 

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners. 

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

If you think him and Moore will be our undoing of promotion then you are completely wrong,it will be due to our 2 or 3 shots on target per game(I know it was one tonight)that we had under LJ which is creeping back into our game now

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3 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Yeah I understand that, I mean he’s boosted by his versatility to play RB also. 

I just don’t think if promotion is the target Vyner is not the answer and my feeling is we will bolster that area.

i may be wrong and I might change my mind on him. Just think he is ever so weak for a CB but the game is also going that way these days I guess

But thats the point, Mawson/Baker fit and Vyner is 4th/5th choice, I'm perfectly happy for him here as a squad player and academy graduate helps with the 1 in squad requirement. If he develops from this period to a first choice starter then great but if not I'm still happy for him to be a bench/squad player as you aren't going to find many better for cheaper. and if you paid more then its just an expensive squad player.

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5 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I mean if we had anyone else of championship quality would Vyner be in this side? 

If Baker or Mawson we’re fit, I feel Kalas has been an unsung hero recently. 

I was questioning the ‘so far out of his depth’ comment. If Baker and Mawson were  fit then yes they’d probably be higher up the pecking order (if on form) but that doesn’t mean that he is ‘so far out of his depth’ and indeed our points tally with him in the side would suggest that he isn’t 

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By far his most difficult challenge playing more central in a 2, and with what he was up against. He looks made for right of a 3.

Thought he was good overall. Have to stick with him and Kalas from now on I think.

Good thing is that Taylor Moore looked good in a 2 last season, and thought him and Kalas looked good together.

Not as bad in that area as some say imo. We have had a fair number of very good defensive displays this season so far.

Baker hopefully coming back in December as back up, we might be okay.

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3 minutes ago, eardun said:

I was questioning the ‘so far out of his depth’ comment. If Baker and Mawson were  fit then yes they’d probably be higher up the pecking order (if on form) but that doesn’t mean that he is ‘so far out of his depth’ and indeed our points tally with him in the side would suggest that he isn’t 

Possibly a little unfair, I guess if we didn’t need him right now my question would be... 

how many championship sides does he get in? 

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Sorry OP but I lost interest at

‘So far out his depth’

 

Theres a number of ways of describing a player that you are not convinced by , not sure about , or even don’t think is up to Championship Level (Should always add at the moment for a younger player)

 

‘So far out his depth’  is a ridiculous and disrespectful description 

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6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Just had his best game for us and you post this. Wow. 

Before this season he had only started 10 games for us, he has started all 11 this season.

I simply don’t understand posts like the OP, Zak has been excellent, played in both a 3 and a 4 & has played the full 90 in every single game.

This stuff about him being 4th or 5th choice is just bollocks, just like those who say Williams & Walsh should be our first choice midfield, these players aren’t fit FFS & in Mawson’s case, looking at his injury history I won’t be expecting him back for some time & in Moore’s he is currently behind Vyner anyway..

I think it highly likely Zak will end up playing in the vast majority of this season’s games, if he stays fit.

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1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Before this season he had only started 10 games for us, he has started all 11 this season.

I simply don’t understand posts like the OP, Zak has been excellent, played in both a 3 and a 4 & has played the full 90 in every single game.

This stuff about him being 4th or 5th choice is just bollocks, just like those who say Williams & Walsh should be our first choice midfield, these players aren’t fit FFS & in Mawson’s case, looking at his injury history I won’t be expecting him back for some time & in Moore’s he is currently behind Vyner anyway..

I think it highly likely Zak will end up playing in the vast majority of this season’s games, if he stays fit.

Couldn’t agree more. If Vyner is soooo out of his depth why wasn’t he tonight or Tuesday?!

So many players get written off as not good enough on this forum. 

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1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Before this season he had only started 10 games for us, he has started all 11 this season.

I simply don’t understand posts like the OP, Zak has been excellent, played in both a 3 and a 4 & has played the full 90 in every single game.

This stuff about him being 4th or 5th choice is just bollocks, just like those who say Williams & Walsh should be our first choice midfield, these players aren’t fit FFS & in Mawson’s case, looking at his injury history I won’t be expecting him back for some time & in Moore’s he is currently behind Vyner anyway..

I think it highly likely Zak will end up playing in the vast majority of this season’s games, if he stays fit.

That’s fair enough mate, all about opinions possibly worded my opinion wrong but I don’t believe with Vyner at CB we get near being promoted. We’ve all been wrong before.

Happy to hold my hands up when I am wrong but basing on those 11 games so far id say he’s been at fault for a few goals and will be for more over the season. 

Maybe not “out of his depth” but certainly a weak link for me

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1 minute ago, Bs4Red said:

That’s fair enough mate, all about opinions possibly worded my opinion wrong but I don’t believe with Vyner at CB we get near being promoted. We’ve all been wrong before.

Happy to hold my hands up when I am wrong but basing on those 11 games so far id say he’s been at fault for a few goals and will be for more over the season. 

Maybe not “out of his depth” but certainly a weak link for me

The good news is getting lost on corners is concentration which I think gets better over time with experience. He is however showing real promise as a defender and with his ability on the ball. The mistakes need to be cut out for sure but that is where games are necessary. He isn’t going to find what he needs on loan or anything like that anymore. This is his next level to sink or swim. At the minute he isn’t really close to sinking but that can change quickly.

I’d like to think he is growing into the role and is better after tonight’s game than game 1 vs coventry. Lets see where he is at Jan 1st before we start making big decisions. Same with Taylor Moore. Lets see where we are with them. If it does not work out hopefully Baker and Mawson are close to returning. Maybe look at loaning one in if need be but for now we need to get behind them as a fanbase and not nitpick imo.

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I think many people seem to forget that central defenders generally develop a lot later than other players.

 

I think Moore and Vyner are exceptional young players and will still develop a long long way. 
 

Most central defenders seem to hit their peak towards the age of 30, these two are only 23 and are fully pulling their weight in a team that is currently second. Yes they may make mistakes, but so do all central defenders, especially those under the age of 25.

Look at Cardiff’s Curtis Nelson, Vyner partner at the back when they were at Plymouth for example, was knocking around several years in L1 with Plymouth and Oxford before being picked up at 26 and now from then has been a regular in the Championship.

Patience needs to be given to these young defenders, who will only get better the more they play at this level.

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He’s growing with every game. Did not look out of place in a back four (with Bents and Nagy) that performed miracles to keep Cardiff out.

If you can go 95 minutes and just lose one key header when faced against a bombardment of crosses from all angles and one of the most experienced and difficult to handle forwards in the Championship, I’d say he’s done pretty well myself. 

Sure footed, calm demeanour and love his attitude. Could be the find of the season for me if he continues to develop at the rate he has over the last couple of months. 

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