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Vyner


Bs4Red
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1 hour ago, Bs4Red said:

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall.

overall he’s exceeded my expectations.  I had less expectations of him than T.Moore

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January.

I just don’t know how you can say that.  He’s played a part in being at fault for a few goals this season, but every goal is someone’s fault or collective fault somewhere.  He’s generally been pretty steady.  If everyone is fit, Vyner would be most people’s 5th choice.

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par.

His positioning is a development area.  It’s a position where one mistake gets punished.  Where does “ball player “ come from?  He’s comfortable on the ball, he goes long into Martin a bit too often, but at his stage of his career in City’s first team I’d rather he did that than tried to be too clever on the ball.  At other times he’s impressed me when he receives the ball and can see little pockets to drive into.  The other thing is that he’ll make angles for his teammates.

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners.

Got my joint highest score of 8 (Bentley and Nagy too) but I thought Nagy shaded it for my MOTM.  Calm and mature performance.  Cardiff really tested him tonight.  He’s probably defended more balls tonight than any other game, and he coped.  That’s not someone “so far out of his depth” to me.

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

once we get to Xmas he will’ve played 20+ times this season.  He’s part of a team that have gained 20points in 11 games.  The fact that he’s played every minute this season, means to me that he’s been a key part of that.

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1 hour ago, BetterRedthenBlue said:

Kiefer Moore is an international striker who will cause problems for most defenders in this league with his movement, strength and jumping to judge Vyner against him is a bit unfair. 

Vyner has come a long way even since last season and looks a decent player. Can play in a 3 or 2 central defence, can play at right back if needed. In the games I've watched he's been decent. 

Whilst I agree we need to strengthen CB in January it's more to do with injuries rather than Zak Vyner. 

Yeh not much better than keifer moore we were looking at him like others watkins Toney etc cant help feeling we missed out here and i agree vyner did ok for a young un against that quality opposition.

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51 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Before this season he had only started 10 games for us, he has started all 11 this season.

I simply don’t understand posts like the OP, Zak has been excellent, played in both a 3 and a 4 & has played the full 90 in every single game.

This stuff about him being 4th or 5th choice is just bollocks, just like those who say Williams & Walsh should be our first choice midfield, these players aren’t fit FFS & in Mawson’s case, looking at his injury history I won’t be expecting him back for some time & in Moore’s he is currently behind Vyner anyway..

I think it highly likely Zak will end up playing in the vast majority of this season’s games, if he stays fit.

I was using 4th/5th choice as a way to demonstrate you can't necessarily expect 1st choice performances from him straight away in reference to OP's comments on out of his depth/will contribute to our not getting promotion. Personal opinion is Zak has played well with room to improve, but talk of having to replace Zak because 'he's not good enough' is nonsense because he started as 4th/5th choice and where are you going to find someone better than him cheaply and on less wages? My guess is you wouldn't. Hopefully he develops and gets better game by game and can establish himself as a first team regular in his own right without injuries being a cause to his continued selection.

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8 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall. 

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January. 

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par. 

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners. 

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

Who played the initial woeful pass that opened up Cardiff on the goal?

Edited by Numero Uno
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On 06/11/2020 at 22:37, Bs4Red said:

Just interested on peoples views not just tonight but overall. 

For me he is so far out of his depth it would be the one position I’d be looking to reinforce come January. 

I just feel his positioning is woeful and his passing for a “ball player” is below par. 

Seen lots of views on tonight saying he played well but again thought he was very lucky that Moore didn’t get a couple after he lost him at a few corners. 

Overall I just feel we constantly say “he’s young” “he’s learning” but how long can this go on? Him and Moore will be the undoing of promotion if they play 40+ games 

Stand by this now more than ever he is absolutely embarrassing 

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53 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Hopefully George Tanner is the answer because Vyner is a awful right back 

I’ve been saying it for too long now, but Vyner just doesn’t have it at this level. Not at CB, not at RB, not at DM. 

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I like him and want him to do well cus he’s one of our own . He’s not naturally a footballer and no way on gods green earth is he a full back . 
Hope the new young lad starts the next game and maybe Vyner ends up being centre half in the future .  

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He had a very good game against Preston I thought but got absolutely no credit on here, remember a fantastic last ditch tackle he did which definitely saved us a goal. Yeah he wasn't great tonight but nobody had a good game, he didn't really have much protection in front on him.

Looks like we've found ourselves this years scapegoat anyway. We've got to stop digging out our players all the time, it really doesn't help them.

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Vyner is a steady, average player. The problem with his kind of average is that we arrive there through one passage of play  where he is well above average, followed by a passage of play well below 😂

Edited by 054123
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Worth remembering what Vyner is - a CB "doing a job" out of position at RB.

We're hoping for him to be, on average, a 5 or 6 out of 10 across the season. He'll probably have a few games where he's a bit above that and a few games where he's below.

I do think Vyner was poor tonight, and I did get frustrated with him. He's what we've got though - unfortunately we're going to have to "make do" a bit in a few positions.

Not saying that people are necessarily wrong to identify him as a weakness, just that it's worth calibrating our expectations of him and understanding why we're not necessarily capable of signing a quality replacement. 

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3 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

Hopefully George Tanner is the answer because Vyner is a awful right back 

I think Tanner is (and I hate to use this expression) one for the future. How far the future is away is  uncertain but I don’t think he’s going to come to the rescue in the next few months 

1 hour ago, shelts said:

I like him and want him to do well cus he’s one of our own . He’s not naturally a footballer and no way on gods green earth is he a full back . 
Hope the new young lad starts the next game and maybe Vyner ends up being centre half in the future .  

I hate the expression “he’s one of our own”. Whether a player has come from the academy or via a transfer is irrelevant. It’s their ability that counts. Prior to this season he’s played at full back, so he should have got the hang of it by now. If he’s not naturally a footballer he’s not going to make it in any position in the Championship 

27 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Worth remembering what Vyner is - a CB "doing a job" out of position at RB.

We're hoping for him to be, on average, a 5 or 6 out of 10 across the season. He'll probably have a few games where he's a bit above that and a few games where he's below.

I do think Vyner was poor tonight, and I did get frustrated with him. He's what we've got though - unfortunately we're going to have to "make do" a bit in a few positions.

Not saying that people are necessarily wrong to identify him as a weakness, just that it's worth calibrating our expectations of him and understanding why we're not necessarily capable of signing a quality replacement. 

He’s played at fullback earlier in his career at City and NP believes this is his best position. I can’t imagine he would be able to dislodge Kallas, Atkinson, or Baker as a central defender. 

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Vyner was frustrating me tonight. Several times he received the ball wide around the half way line, advanced a short distance before crossing it whereas he has at least another 30 yards or so to head towards the by line but never did it once - very irritated as his crosses were pretty poor from too deep a position.

If Nige thinks he’s going to be a regular starter at RB then he needs to tell Zac to push further up the pitch before crossing and insist on it.

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18 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

He’s played at fullback earlier in his career at City and NP believes this is his best position. I can’t imagine he would be able to dislodge Kallas, Atkinson, or Baker as a central defender. 

Appreciate he's played at full back previously, but was most often used at CB last season.

I don't recall Pearson saying that - perhaps he has and I missed it. Either way, personally I see him more as a CB. Agree that he isn't better than Kalas, Atkinson or Baker, but that doesn't change Vyner's best position.

Think my fundamental point remains; he's "doing a job" for us at RB. I don't think he's intended to be a long term solution there. I imagine NP would have upgraded at RB if circumstances had allowed it. 

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4 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

Can’t even pass the ball just lumps it away. Cornick turned him like he wasn’t there. 

Hes not good enough and being found out time and again

Just diagonals everywhere isn't it. Not even whipped balls in by Zak for the crosses, just diagonals. It's too wooden and League 1 standard at best

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5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I thought Vyner had a very good first half, surprised at the sub at h-t.

Agree with Fevs on most things but not this. The RHS first  half was shocking  with no link up play between Scott & Zak and zero threat. Not surprised it was changed. Would love to hear where the staff actually see Zak’s best position? NP stated at start of season he knew Zak’s best position…I would take Simpson in front of Zak any day of the week, and we have not spent £300k on Tanner for him to develop in 18 months time…we will see him sooner rather than later.  
If Zak going to do anything for us central defender..but he is down that pecking order as well

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5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I thought Vyner had a very good first half, surprised at the sub at h-t.

Maybe its our position in the ground Dave as me & Josh thought similar. Though he played 1 awful pass to Weiman when we had a break. However,  picking the wrong pass when in a promising position is 1 of out common failings.

Whilst we were more solid 2nd half, they still carved us open down the right somewhat. 

It's hard to figure exactly where the issue is, but it does worry me how easy teams slice us open & if we're that open v Fulham it will be all over by half time.

2 subs by the start of the 2nd half is very un-Nige like, hopefully it won't be a regular occurrence.  

I think the home form has def got into the players heads & we're so nervous defending a lead late on.  Shame as I think the fans have been excellent in the last 2 games.

 

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