Brunt

[Major Isewater]

8 hours ago, marcofisher said:

A good win tonight - but it was a comically given away hand ball by Brunt that Cardiff could have quite easily scored from if someone had been a split second sharper and got on the end of the delivery from the resulting set piece.

He has had a fair few chances now to make an impression, how many more poor performances does he need to e left out completely? 

I was all for Massengo going out on loan for some match experience when Morrell was still here. I would be fuming if I were him currently. Not getting in the team over a 35 year old fullback/winger playing in central midfield, a position he has seemingly not played in before, who looks horribly off the pace and making some seriously amateurish mistakes. 

Utterly baffling signing when at the time we had Morrell on the up after being POTY at Lincoln (far more impressive on loan than Bakinson for example who has also excelled when given the chance) and a £4million Monaco academy graduate. 

I really hope this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back because it really annoys me seeing this ethos we have installed being backtracked upon for a player who looks significantly below the level we are aiming for. Without a doubt Massengo, who I have been critical of for his lack of contribution in either half before (due to age and practice rather than overall ability), would have performed a far better task of coming on and holding onto the ball and drawing fouls to close the game out; a significant strength of the young lad.

I’m not sure if any other fans feel this significant wave of disappointment that I do when I see Brunt playing over what seems a just as capable youngster? Every time he has played we have looked a significantly weaker unit as a result. 

How very tiring , we have just come off the back of two excellent and tough winning away trips, of which Brunt has played a part, and the search is on for a ‘ scapegoat ‘.

Yes, we can question, that’s the point of a forum but can’t we just give the witch hunts à rest for five minutes ?

 

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, GrahamC said:

he was clearly angry with himself.

I believe he was ‘ angry ‘ with the ref because it looked very much like ball to hand not hand to ball. 
 

[GTFABM]

5 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

How very tiring , we have just come off the back of two excellent and tough winning away trips, of which Brunt has played a part, and the search is on for a ‘ scapegoat ‘.

Yes, we can question, that’s the point of a forum but can’t we just give the witch hunts à rest for five minutes ?

 

It’s not about being a scapegoat it’s about being really disappointed in a players performances so far. 

4 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I believe he was ‘ angry ‘ with the ref because it looked very much like ball to hand not hand to ball. 
 

About a deliberate handball as you will see.

[chinapig]

8 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

He’s played enough games for Northern Ireland !

Not to mention playing for Pulis.

[chinapig]

3 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Bit confused as to why you think Ashton is the link. Ashton left West Brom in 2004, at which point Brunt was a 20 year old at Sheffield Wednesday, three years away from joining West Brom.

Surely Keith Downing, who was assistant at West Brom whilst Brunt was actually there, is the far more relevant link?

Yes, that's the obvious link. Jobs for the boys has not yet been banished from Ashton Gate maybe.

No point signing a player with lots of experience if he can no longer keep up with the game. Nor complaining we have too many midfielders then signing another who is 35 years old, replacing a young player who can play the holding role with one who apparently can't.

[ReggyRed]

He’s good to have around even if he doesn’t play purely for his experiences in this league. Decent signing

[GTFABM]

30 minutes ago, ReggyRed said:

He’s good to have around even if he doesn’t play purely for his experiences in this league. Decent signing

Not sure the players will see him as good to have around if he keeps putting in poor performances. Expensive cheerleader if thats all he is good for

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, GTFABM said:

Even with all his experience he played a sublime pass to dean holden in the dying minutes of the game. Don’t get me wrong it was a lovely weighted pass.... but not what was needed at all! He had time to do anything other than panic and play it into touch! If thats what experience gets you then it’s a waste of time. 

Brunt wasn’t great, but this is nonsense.

We were stuck in our half, Martin (who was excellent last night) was so shattered he looked like he was running in quicksand by this point, there were a couple of minutes left and we needed to get the ball up the pitch.

There was no out ball, no one up front, a pass to a team mate as deep as we were was not on, because there was the possibility they would be dispossessed on the edge of our box.

A ball down the pitch that enabled us to move up, get in shape and waste another 30 seconds was ideal at the time.

[GTFABM]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Brunt wasn’t great, but this is nonsense.

We were stuck in our half, Martin (who was excellent last night) was so shattered he looked like he was running in quicksand by this point, there were a couple of minutes left and we needed to get the ball up the pitch.

There was no out ball, no one up front, a pass to a team mate as deep as we were was not on, because there was the possibility they would be dispossessed on the edge of our box.

A ball down the pitch that enabled us to move up, get in shape and waste another 30 seconds was ideal at the time.

In my view he had way more time in that situation to do more than panic and kick it to touch. I would expect alot more from someone with his experience. In the minutes he has played he has done nothing to justify him being here at all. Defend it all you want and he might come good but so for it’s been a car crash. His set piece delivery is meant to be top notch and even that has been woeful. 

[chinapig]

52 minutes ago, ReggyRed said:

He’s good to have around even if he doesn’t play purely for his experiences in this league. Decent signing

Much like the argument for giving Louis Carey new contracts despite him not getting  regular games because he was 'good in the dressing room '. Much good that did us.

We can't afford the luxury of having players around for their alleged influence if they can't perform on the pitch.

[GTFABM]

Just now, chinapig said:

Much like the argument for giving Louis Carey new contracts despite him not getting  regular games because he was 'good in the dressing room '. Much good that did us.

We can't afford the luxury of having players around for their alleged influence if they can't perform on the pitch.

Exactly this. People say we can’t afford players like palmer because he sometimes gets carried during games, he gets carried no more than Brunt does on current viewing but 100% offered more. 

[ReggyRed]

14 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Much like the argument for giving Louis Carey new contracts despite him not getting  regular games because he was 'good in the dressing room '. Much good that did us.

We can't afford the luxury of having players around for their alleged influence if they can't perform on the pitch.

I’d say it’s very different to Carey. Show me where Carey has multiple promotions from the championship on his CV

[GTFABM]

2 minutes ago, ReggyRed said:

I’d say it’s very different to Carey. Show me where Carey has multiple promotions from the championship on his CV

Show me where Brunt does playing as a CM?

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

He will likely be gone at the end of the season. If he can come on and help see out wins then it's not the worst signing we could have made.

But then I'm not sure he even makes the bench once Williams is back. 

I think it is virtually certain to be a one year & gone deal.

We’ll see but I do think he will be on the bench, even if we ever reach that glorious day that either Williams & Walsh are finally available for selection, though on their current rates of progress, Brunt could well have retired by then.

[marcofisher]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

How very tiring , we have just come off the back of two excellent and tough winning away trips, of which Brunt has played a part, and the search is on for a ‘ scapegoat ‘.

Yes, we can question, that’s the point of a forum but can’t we just give the witch hunts à rest for five minutes ?

 

Sorry Major, having an opinion does not mean that I am not searching for a scapegoat at all. I have no doubts that Brunt is a consummate professional and a decent player to have around the training ground. Also, I believe he was a top player at the level in his day, and would not question the signing of him if it had been 5 or so years ago.

I do however, question the decision makers who decided that he should come in for experience, and block the pathway of Morrell and Massengo, who are players on the way up at this level, when he looks a level or two below.

But sorry if that is scapegoating - let's all clap and acknowledge how amazing our incredibly out of form players are, rather than generating any form of discussion around the issue on a FOOTBALL FORUM. 

[BRISTOL86]

More like Chris Blunt from what I’ve seen of him so far, really not impressed for someone who’s had such a distinguished career.

[mozo]

8 hours ago, Red Shadow said:

Holden see's them all in training and you have to trust his judgement when picking the starting eleven. You also have to trust his judgement in game management when deciding who to bring on from the bench and when. So far he hasn't done a bad job considering he is only a quarter of the way into his first season as the organ grinder.

Yeah that's very true but I find the Massengo thing perplexing. It just doesn't make sense to me and I don't take leaps of faith!

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

How very tiring , we have just come off the back of two excellent and tough winning away trips, of which Brunt has played a part, and the search is on for a ‘ scapegoat ‘.

Yes, we can question, that’s the point of a forum but can’t we just give the witch hunts à rest for five minutes ?

 

Come on Major, we stil have opinions. 

[Simon Wheeler]

Looked like to like hed joined the Bears and was kicking for touch???  in all seriousness sadly presently im not convinced especially with a player with his CV?

 

[DT The Optimist]

Lots of views in regards to Brunt, the general feeling is why did we sign him and what does he bring to the team? And he has not been very good or impressive in the games he has featured.

Couple of observations.

• Does anyone think we would have signed him as he some vague  link to the coaching staff and a ‘job for boys’. Course not
• played at highest level with great CV and a top pro.
• Admitted he has lacked game time and he has to get up to speed. That will come. This talk about ‘his legs have gone?’  Really ?
• The many Baggie fans who visited this forum after his signing to tell us what a good player we have now. 

Being the Optimist I will refer judgement to the end of the year. Brunt has said himself he has come here to play games, lets see.

[Globe Trotter]

It’s important to consider what he may be offering off the pitch too, I’m sure the likes of Bakinson, Massengo, Semenyo will learn a lot from working with an experienced pro with lots of premier league and international experience. 

If Massengo had come on last night and run around like a headless chicken and given away a penalty people would be criticising Holden for not bringing Brunt on! It’s a long season and I’m sure we will see his value as it progresses and his fitness improves.  I think he will rarely get more than 20 mins here and there when our injuries clear up but those 20 mins could be just what we need at the time. 

[Bris Red]

26 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Lots of views in regards to Brunt, the general feeling is why did we sign him and what does he bring to the team? And he has not been very good or impressive in the games he has featured.

Couple of observations.

• Does anyone think we would have signed him as he some vague  link to the coaching staff and a ‘job for boys’. Course not
• played at highest level with great CV and a top pro.
• Admitted he has lacked game time and he has to get up to speed. That will come. This talk about ‘his legs have gone?’  Really ?
• The many Baggie fans who visited this forum after his signing to tell us what a good player we have now. 

Being the Optimist I will refer judgement to the end of the year. Brunt has said himself he has come here to play games, lets see.

He’s been here a couple of months now, you’d hope that he would of been up to speed now or at least very close to it which unfortunately doesn’t seem to be the case. 

As i said the jury is still out for me, i hope he comes good as it’s the sort of experience that could prove to be vital for a promotion push. 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Globe Trotter said:

It’s important to consider what he may be offering off the pitch too, I’m sure the likes of Bakinson, Massengo, Semenyo will learn a lot from working with an experienced pro with lots of premier league and international experience. 

If Massengo had come on last night and run around like a headless chicken and given away a penalty people would be criticising Holden for not bringing Brunt on! It’s a long season and I’m sure we will see his value as it progresses and his fitness improves.  I think he will rarely get more than 20 mins here and there when our injuries clear up but those 20 mins could be just what we need at the time. 

I think a lot of this is very fair.

Brunt probably is adding value on the training ground to those you have mentioned, so far though his contribution in the games that he has been involved has been poor.

It is a paradox but true that Holden has been very brave in his starting line ups, giving the likes of Bakinson, Semenyo, Vyner & Moore a lot of starts, but seems to revert to the experienced options to see games out, with mixed success.

[CosmosUK]

If I had a pound for every time I heard the term "Pathway Blocked" since a recent Stato article on the BP website I would be a rich soul.

12 hours ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Agree. 
No excuse now for fitness/sharpness. 
 

Brunt is not up to it, and is blocking the pathway of Massengo. 

The return of Walsh and Williams means HNM is now likely to be out of the squad! 

 

[big dosser]

not sure with brunt he looks way of the pace at the moment but maybe a little unfit and may come good.will have to wait and see

[RedNachos]

The majority of these posts are absolutely bang on. As a 35 year old who's played his career yoyoing for the Baggies between the prem and the championship, he does not have an excuse for not settling in or being match aware. Massengo, Nagy, Bakinson and maybe even Walsh when he returns do. With the performances of Nagy in the last 2 and HNMs performances early last season, not to mention Bakinson fantastic cameos this season, why on earth does he get a game? 

I do understand elements of signing him but have not been at all convinced he should play the big role he does. I'd even rather give a debut to young Towler ahead. In the long term Holdens making a mistake here. Wonder if Downing's opinion comes into these descions?

5 hours ago, GTFABM said:

If his legs are gone in CM then playing him in a wide left role will be even more exposed. You can play centre mid and control a game by tempo and passing by barely moving

Spot on from another poster in this thread. Physically past it, in comparison with Tommy Rowe, Jay Dasilva, and (I hate to praise him) Callum O'Dowda in that role. Waste of space there.

 

12 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Exactly, it was crying out for someone like Massengo to get on the ball and buy fouls for the team to get us up the pitch.

Also, I’ve never remembered Brunt as having a particular aerial presence.

Same here, very good post. Experience does not necessarily mean being more capable than an inexperienced player in a certain situation. HNM has a serious quality here. One Brunt has never shown.

 

12 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Martin, a 31 year old regular for Derby on a free made a lot of sense.

 

Brunt, a 35 year old who hadn’t started a game for two years or whatever the statistic was, did not make sense. 

I was stupid enough to be a little disgruntled over the Martin signing. He has definetely one me over. Physically looks poor to be honest in terms of pace, stamina and maybe even a little to much weight, but his footballing brain has clicked here, and his experience has bought us at least 2 goals this season. Brunt does not seem to use his experiences in the way Martin does, his descion making in comparison to the Scott - very poor.

[chinapig]

3 hours ago, ReggyRed said:

I’d say it’s very different to Carey. Show me where Carey has multiple promotions from the championship on his CV

As a player of course he is different. My point was that you should not give players well past their peak contracts because they are allegedly a good influence. They still need to be able to perform on the pitch, which he has yet to show he can do.

Fwiw I thought he was a very good player at his peak, playing in his preferred position. Rather underrated in fact. The problem is he is now past his peak and not playing in his preferred position.

[1960maaan]

When Brunt signed we had;
Williams, Walsh, Nagy, Massengo, Morrell, Rowe and I guess you can add COD, Pato & Weimann as Holden plays them there and Bakinson who was , all playing in MF. 
So I guess that Brunt was brought in for experience possibly, or if (not sure about timing) there doubts about Walsh/Williams maybe cover.
Let's look at the need for experience;

Williams has over 100 games at Champ level.
Walsh  player of the year at Cov L1 (26 games) & 15 games in Champ.
Nagy 50 games Serie A, and 40 for Hungary  plus nearly 30 for us.
Massengo 3 Leigue 1 and nearly 30 for us 
Joe Morrell 67 games between L1 & 2 and current starter for Wales , 7 games.
Tommy Rowe over 435 career games

Those are before you add the No10's 8's or whatever. I'm not sure of the logic, I honestly thought it may have been CB cover. He has looked completely off the pace at times, I'll accept he looked decent in one game  but, you have to wonder how many more chances he gets. HNM must be gutted, as some of those minutes late in games he's played, you could probably make an argument for "legs" over "experience" . Add in the fact that his "wand of a left foot" seems to be out of magic, I think he will struggle to be involved if/when we get some players back fit.

 

[RobintheRed Red]

12 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Bit confused as to why you think Ashton is the link. Ashton left West Brom in 2004, at which point Brunt was a 20 year old at Sheffield Wednesday, three years away from joining West Brom.

Surely Keith Downing, who was assistant at West Brom whilst Brunt was actually there, is the far more relevant link?

Yes didnt realise it was 2004 just put two and two together still think Brunt has had his better days and stifling Massengo s chances.

[1960maaan]

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think Massengo showed in some games last season just how good he can be. He will be a top player and not playing is not going to help him achieve that.

We have 4 midfielders out and he still can't get on. I guess Holden doesn't think he's good enough. It's a shame. Box to box I think he would not be a liability at all. Holding role, yes certainly at his age and not played there much.

He has brilliant work rate and I remember QPR away last season where he played box to box and really helped in our first half domination as we pressed them so well.

Yep, totally agree. He was obviously told to bulk up and when he came back after the enforced break, he looked like he had. Admittedly he looked a bit reckless in the challenge, but I think that was jus a bit of over enthusiasm. I think he's got everything to be a top player, why he can't get any gametime with all the injuries I don't know. I thought he would have been perfect last night, Semenyo tiring and HNM could have ran that right channel and hold the ball, but we got Brunt .
Everybody saying how well Nagy has played and he wouldn't have got near a start if we hadn't had the latest injuries and illness, I worry Holden is going to flog certain players to death while ignoring others.

[tin]

Brunt was clearly a class performer a few years ago but there comes a time in every players’ life when your legs don’t do what the brain tells them to do. There’s no shame in that. WBA probably realised that and deep down Brunt probably knows it as well.

The rumour about him not starting a game for WBA in two years is bollocks, though. He got 86 minutes against Newcastle on 3 March 2020. 

On what I’ve seen so far, he needs to improve fast if he’s to get into the 18 if/when everyone’s fit as he’s nowhere near up to it at the moment.