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Nagy v Pack


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@OoohShaunyTaylor as you asked.

@headhunteras you mentioned post game whether we’d look better with Pack.

Not meant to be a A is better than B, just to highlight a couple of differences last night.

Adam Nagy - pass map

B24EBE05-77DA-4978-9368-DCFAF94A7BFD.jpeg.7976e43b0cac9ddb780fdc0649c17c0e.jpeg
Marlon Pack - pass map

4A3B3382-7F1E-4E7F-AEC9-EFFBBB605BAF.jpeg.3e8b3d6e5945a95a0dec6d6e61c3ac8a.jpeg

Summary for me is that they’re obviously different, but we see Nagy’s ability for those 5-10 yard forward passes, possibly through the lines.  Pack was decent for them last night.

Adam Nagy - ball recoveries

9DEFEADA-9541-4E2E-93E3-78691857A7FA.jpeg.0571c29bc54968bd137a4ccaa7f24185.jpeg

Marlon Pack - ball recoveries

F96D542D-50E8-4FC4-88FC-ADB39BC542CB.jpeg.94b7de5578c3760d1ffffc65f4da2043.jpeg

Summary is that Nagy kept his central discipline.

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Thanks Dave 

Interesting

Ive been yet to be convinced about aspects of Nagy to date , and would have been more than comfortable to see him move on pre season .

 

But I’ve rewatched the game twice now , with rewind / review / rewind / review to look at a number of aspects about us collectively and individually, one of whom was Nagy

Have to say I thought he was excellent last night , not good , excellent (And he’s not the only one) His discipline , danger awareness and reactions, tracking , ball retention in tight situations , all very good

Technically good and very neat - what’s noticeable is that he never or rarely ever takes the ball ‘face on’ , always adjusting his body shape so he’s receiving the ball on an angle / half turn , opening up his own options with the ball - very clever

I thought his one and two touch passing helped us throughout and really liked how he dropped in between the centre halves.

He won me over with that performance and with his chance taken looks like a new selection pusher

Edited by Sheltons Army
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8 minutes ago, Bassomylord said:

 

An interesting comparison but not entirely sure what the point is....2 very different midfielders in a game where sides had very different mindsets.

If I was to compare,Nagys mobility is key for me.....has a proper engine on him. His tracking yesterday was superb. Pack is more physical.

 

The point is:

@OoohShaunyTaylorasked me if I’d put some comparisons up and @headhuntersuggested last night that we might look better with Pack in midfield rather than Nagy.

Now up to them and others to comment, or.....

....just scroll down to the next topic 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Just now, Davefevs said:

The point is:

@OoohShaunyTaylorasked me if I’d put some comparisons up and @headhuntersuggested last night that we might look better with Pack in midfield rather than Nagy.

Now up to them and others to comment, or.....

....just scroll down to the next topic 🤷🏻‍♂️

The point I'm making isnt aimed at you. Its the old argument of ex city player vs current city player whose better.....when obviously it is impossible to say because different roles in different teams with different styles given different responsibilities.

 

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3 minutes ago, Bassomylord said:

The point I'm making isnt aimed at you. Its the old argument of ex city player vs current city player whose better.....when obviously it is impossible to say because different roles in different teams with different styles given different responsibilities.

 

Resign Cole Skuse...............:cool2:

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2 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Much more importantly is there an agreed pronunciation of his surname yet??

On Talksport against Huddersfield they were pronouncing it "Noi" to rhyme with "coy" 

A Hungarian mate tells me that you'd pronounce it narj (as in rhymes with sarge).

Being bristolian i think the closest we could expect ourselves to get will be naj (rhyming with badge)

Basically its the old "bath" vs "barth" debate!

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24 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Thanks Dave 

Interesting

Ive been yet to be convinced about aspects of Nagy to date , and would have been more than comfortable to see him move on pre season .

 

But I’ve rewatched the game twice now , with rewind / review / rewind / review to look at a number of aspects about us collectively and individually, one of whom was Nagy

Have to say I thought he was excellent last night , not good , excellent (And he’s not the only one) His discipline , danger awareness and reactions, tracking , ball retention in tight situations , all very good

Technically good and very neat - what’s noticeable is that he never or rarely ever takes the ball ‘face on’ , always adjusting his body shape so he’s receiving the ball on an angle / half turn , opening up his own options with the ball - very clever

I thought his one and two touch passing helped us throughout and really liked how he dropped in between the centre halves.

He won me over with that performance and with his chance taken looks like a new selection pusher

This is a really good post (I’ve run out of likes).

His biggest asset is his technical ability, he passes the ball accurately (& even more importantly, quickly), and they way he is happy to drop deep between the centre backs to receive the ball & help them out & make constructive play, is very useful.

Does his best to provide a defensive screen but I’m not sure that is quite as effective myself.

What is the case is his 2 performances this week have shown he is an asset to the squad, making his omission from it in the first 7 games (which let’s face it, probably would have continued had so many not been injured) so baffling.

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You need to be able to have range to cover and track people in that position.

Pack does not, so it would be very bad defensively. You imagine him following the wingers and covering the fullbacks? Haha NO!

If you're argument is that Pack is a better passer of the football. well sure.  But that's not the role.

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6 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

This is a really good post (I’ve run out of likes).

His biggest asset is his technical ability, he passes the ball accurately (& even more importantly, quickly), and they way he is happy to drop deep between the centre backs to receive the ball & help them out & make constructive play, is very useful.

Does his best to provide a defensive screen but I’m not sure that is quite as effective myself.

What is the case is his 2 performances this week have shown he is an asset to the squad, making his omission from it in the first 7 games (which let’s face it, probably would have continued had so many not been injured) so baffling.

Watching the game back Graham his screening was an aspect that really impressed me

Hes clearly not as physically strong as say Bakinson , and Cardiff the toughest type of opponents in that respect, but watching him off the ball , he more than makes up for that with his intelligence and awareness  

Tbf he put in both challenges aerially and on the floor but intelligently picks those moments

Have to say was very impressed with his performance and there’s certainly a case , if he maintains that level , whether he’s not the best option we have there as it stands 

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How many fans think we need an allocation, blood and guts player to be a defensive midfielder ? Someone in the Tommy Doc or Gerry Gow mould ,busting a gut to get stuck into crunching tackles and ruffling the opposition.

Seems to me that Nagy relies on speed of thought to anticipate attacks so as to cut off passes, rather then having to throw himself into tackles. With the ball he is quick thinking and technically very good , so tends to release the ball pretty quickly to a teammate, rather than playing eye-catching Hollywood passes, and seems especially good when receiving the ball in a tight spot, hemmed in by the opposition, where he seems to have the ability to hold the ball but to still get a pass away.

With hindsight his injury had a big impact on his progress here - I wonder whether the club v country issue caused friction between the player and management - and he didn't seem fully fit when he returned, allied to LJ’s chopping and changing early this year helping no one.

Ive always felt there was a far better player in there than we have seen, but was surprised when he still didn't seem to feature in DH’s plans, even with all our injuries. Im pleased that he has grabbed the chance when it has eventually come around, and think he could make a big difference to the way our midfield plays and would be interested to see him paired with Bakinson.  

 

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2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Watching the game back Graham his screening was an aspect that really impressed me

Hes clearly not as physically strong as say Bakinson , and Cardiff the toughest type of opponents in that respect, but watching him off the ball , he more than makes up for that with his intelligence and awareness  

Tbf he put in both challenges aerially and on the floor but intelligently picks those moments

Have to say was very impressed with his performance and there’s certainly a case , if he maintains that level , whether he’s not the best option we have there as it stands 

Good points, I don’t for a minute doubt his game intelligence, he is constantly on the move to receive the ball.

I just think an occasion will come where he simply isn’t strong enough in this role, but completely accept he knows this, so uses his other abilities to compensate as much as he can.

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4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Good points, I don’t for a minute doubt his game intelligence, he is constantly on the move to receive the ball.

I just think an occasion will come where he simply isn’t strong enough in this role, but completely accept he knows this, so uses his other abilities to compensate as much as he can.

Don’t you think there’s different ways of playing that role Graham ,

We all like the thought of a bully type player in there , but as we know any physicality is a dangerous game to play with the modern game and yes  Nagy will on occasions lose the odd physicality challenge but he will nick balls or smother attackers space by filling holes or pushing them away from danger

More than one way to skin a cat etc !

 

I do like his calmness on the ball,  not only being a ‘let’s play’ outlet from Zak or Kalas , (but also allowing Kalas and Zak the option of driving forward with the ball if hes dropped in ) but in helping us ‘play out’ in tight defensive situations 

Last night was the perfect demonstration of how many Europeans would play and value the defensive screener  Id suggest

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1 hour ago, Bassomylord said:

I think an interesting comparison would be Nagy and Bakinson. @Davefevs is it possible to look at their stats over this season or would that take too long?

What kind of stats you after?  Let me know and I’ll see if I can pull out.

58 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Much more importantly is there an agreed pronunciation of his surname yet??

On Talksport against Huddersfield they were pronouncing it "Noi" to rhyme with "coy" 

Nohhhh-d-juh

was how Adam explained that there’s almost a small “d” in there.  More like Kodjia but a longer Nohhh bit.

This hasn’t helped has it 😂😂😂

49 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I am more of a fan of what Nagy can do than what Pack can in the holding role.

Depends on role / team system.

22 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Don’t you think there’s different ways of playing that role Graham ,

We all like the thought of a bully type player in there , but as we know any physicality is a dangerous game to play with the modern game and yes  Nagy will on occasions lose the odd physicality challenge but he will nick balls or smother attackers space by filling holes or pushing them away from danger

More than one way to skin a cat etc !

 

I do like his calmness on the ball,  not only being a ‘let’s play’ outlet from Zak or Kalas , (but also allowing Kalas and Zak the option of driving forward with the ball if hes dropped in ) but in helping us ‘play out’ in tight defensive situations 

Last night was the perfect demonstration of how many Europeans would play and value the defensive screener  Id suggest

Would you say the way he played last night (without the ball) was a bit more like he plays for Hungary?  I haven’t really seen much internationally to say.  I did like that he didn’t always sit just in front of the back 4, but stepped ahead of Pato and COD in some of Cardiff’s patterns of play.  He wasn’t just directing, but acting too.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What kind of stats you after?  Let me know and I’ll see if I can pull out.

Nohhhh-d-juh

was how Adam explained that there’s almost a small “d” in there.  More like Kodjia but a longer Nohhh bit.

This hasn’t helped has it 😂😂😂

Depends on role / team system.

Would you say the way he played last night (without the ball) was a bit more like he plays for Hungary?  I haven’t really seen much internationally to say.  I did like that he didn’t always sit just in front of the back 4, but stepped ahead of Pato and COD in some of Cardiff’s patterns of play.  He wasn’t just directing, but acting too.

Positioning, passing stats, defensive duels.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What kind of stats you after?  Let me know and I’ll see if I can pull out.

Nohhhh-d-juh

was how Adam explained that there’s almost a small “d” in there.  More like Kodjia but a longer Nohhh bit.

This hasn’t helped has it 😂😂😂

Depends on role / team system.

Would you say the way he played last night (without the ball) was a bit more like he plays for Hungary?  I haven’t really seen much internationally to say.  I did like that he didn’t always sit just in front of the back 4, but stepped ahead of Pato and COD in some of Cardiff’s patterns of play.  He wasn’t just directing, but acting too.

Yes absolutely Dave 


As I said what struck me was that he was playing that role in a ‘ European way ‘ where intelligence and technique are the overwhelming style over physicality, including in the screening role 

In basic terms , and you can debate the pros and cons of both Cardiff looked a very antedoctal British side last night , we looked more fluid , modern and ‘European’ in many respects 

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38 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Don’t you think there’s different ways of playing that role Graham ,

We all like the thought of a bully type player in there , but as we know any physicality is a dangerous game to play with the modern game and yes  Nagy will on occasions lose the odd physicality challenge but he will nick balls or smother attackers space by filling holes or pushing them away from danger

More than one way to skin a cat etc !

 

I do like his calmness on the ball,  not only being a ‘let’s play’ outlet from Zak or Kalas , (but also allowing Kalas and Zak the option of driving forward with the ball if hes dropped in ) but in helping us ‘play out’ in tight defensive situations 

Last night was the perfect demonstration of how many Europeans would play and value the defensive screener  Id suggest

Agree with that 100%.

Maybe I’m projecting my own prejudices then & arguably based on Holden only going to him when he was left with virtually no alternative (Williams & Walsh seemingly permanently injured, Brunt unable to play in consecutive games, Bakinson taken ill) they were his, too?

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As for a physical/bullying midfielder many players as with Cardiff last night have little difficulty falling over without any help. It's how the officials see these incidents - I'm not convinced that the assistants help the referee in this respect.

As for agent Marlon he knew when to make a Hollywood pass and when to make a Hollyoaks pass! And as for the free kicks?

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59 minutes ago, downendcity said:

How many fans think we need an allocation, blood and guts player to be a defensive midfielder ? Someone in the Tommy Doc or Gerry Gow mould ,busting a gut to get stuck into crunching tackles and ruffling the opposition.

Seems to me that Nagy relies on speed of thought to anticipate attacks so as to cut off passes, rather then having to throw himself into tackles. With the ball he is quick thinking and technically very good , so tends to release the ball pretty quickly to a teammate, rather than playing eye-catching Hollywood passes, and seems especially good when receiving the ball in a tight spot, hemmed in by the opposition, where he seems to have the ability to hold the ball but to still get a pass away.

With hindsight his injury had a big impact on his progress here - I wonder whether the club v country issue caused friction between the player and management - and he didn't seem fully fit when he returned, allied to LJ’s chopping and changing early this year helping no one.

Ive always felt there was a far better player in there than we have seen, but was surprised when he still didn't seem to feature in DH’s plans, even with all our injuries. Im pleased that he has grabbed the chance when it has eventually come around, and think he could make a big difference to the way our midfield plays and would be interested to see him paired with Bakinson.  

 

The part in bold is key for me.

Speaks volumes of his character.

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10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@OoohShaunyTaylor as you asked.

@headhunteras you mentioned post game whether we’d look better with Pack.

Not meant to be a A is better than B, just to highlight a couple of differences last night.

Adam Nagy - pass map

B24EBE05-77DA-4978-9368-DCFAF94A7BFD.jpeg.7976e43b0cac9ddb780fdc0649c17c0e.jpeg
Marlon Pack - pass map

4A3B3382-7F1E-4E7F-AEC9-EFFBBB605BAF.jpeg.3e8b3d6e5945a95a0dec6d6e61c3ac8a.jpeg

Summary for me is that they’re obviously different, but we see Nagy’s ability for those 5-10 yard forward passes, possibly through the lines.  Pack was decent for them last night.

Adam Nagy - ball recoveries

9DEFEADA-9541-4E2E-93E3-78691857A7FA.jpeg.0571c29bc54968bd137a4ccaa7f24185.jpeg

Marlon Pack - ball recoveries

F96D542D-50E8-4FC4-88FC-ADB39BC542CB.jpeg.94b7de5578c3760d1ffffc65f4da2043.jpeg

Summary is that Nagy kept his central discipline.

Thanks for this @Davefevs 

I thought Nagy was good last night, but to the naked eye, Pack looked faultless so hence I asked you for the comparisons- 

FWIW I know they’re 2 different “types” was  purely interested in what the stats said...

I hope Williams is our new Pack. 

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19 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Thanks for this @Davefevs 

I thought Nagy was good last night, but to the naked eye, Pack looked faultless so hence I asked you for the comparisons- 

FWIW I know they’re 2 different “types” was  purely interested in what the stats said...

I hope Williams is our new Pack. 

I realised I quoted the wrong person.

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10 hours ago, Hxj said:

Much more importantly is there an agreed pronunciation of his surname yet??

On Talksport against Huddersfield they were pronouncing it "Noi" to rhyme with "coy" 

Let’s face it, nobody can agree and when he’s asked he just makes a weird noise that we can’t replicate.

So we just as well all pronounce it Natch and tell all the media that’s what it is

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9 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Yes absolutely Dave 


As I said what struck me was that he was playing that role in a ‘ European way ‘ where intelligence and technique are the overwhelming style over physicality, including in the screening role 

In basic terms , and you can debate the pros and cons of both Cardiff looked a very antedoctal British side last night , we looked more fluid , modern and ‘European’ in many respects 

I didn't see much difference with Harris's Cardiff to Colin's Cardiff. A lot of long ball, aerial battles and some illegal physical challenges that went unpunished, eg. The Wilson two footed and off the ground, clattering of Bentley. 

Effective sometimes. Attractive and entertaining? No!

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1 hour ago, ralphindevon said:

Let’s face it, nobody can agree and when he’s asked he just makes a weird noise that we can’t replicate.

So we just as well all pronounce it Natch and tell all the media that’s what it is

I assume it’s the same pronunciation as the old PM Imre Nagy. (You only need to watch this for 15 secs and then switch off again 😀
 

 

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