East Londoner Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, WarksRobin said: Could have been avoided if either were prepared to back off a bit. Not great role models. I don’t understand why Mercedes pitted so early with a shortened stint on the hard tyres - they needed to go long to make the offset mediums work, as we saw with Bottas. I suspect it was connected to max having a 11 second stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarksRobin Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, walnutroof said: I suspect it was connected to max having a 11 second stop Looking for track position, but it was too far from the flag for the mediums at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 That's entirely Max's fault for me, not often I disagree with Brundle but I can't picture it any other way. Max is entitled to go into T1, Lewis gives him room. As they enter T2, Max is never making that corner, there is no room and he should back out, but he doesn't. And his radio message afterwards pretty much confirms that he knew it was naughty. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, nebristolred said: That's entirely Max's fault for me, not often I disagree with Brundle but I can't picture it any other way. Max is entitled to go into T1, Lewis gives him room. As they enter T2, Max is never making that corner, there is no room and he should back out, but he doesn't. And his radio message afterwards pretty much confirms that he knew it was naughty. It’s been coming for years with the whole yield or we crash attitude, combine that with the red mist after the 11 second pit stop and we got what we saw, max needs to realise his car has a brake pedal for a reason What was interested was Christian Horner afterwards who sounded just like Toto did after silverstone, i don’t really want to see Max get a penalty but you also need consistency 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 It sounds like old school v new school, old school - should have yielded, new school - max had enough room going into the corner to be entitled to try and Lewis kept squeezing him onto the sausage bumps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 So Max gets a 3 place grid penalty, if red bull have any sense they’ll bring forward the change of power unit and thereby consolidate their penalties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 One day there will be a crash involving LH and he will get the blame (well may be) Bit like when he does not win the race its not his fault its the cars or the tyres or ANYTHING else but him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said: One day there will be a crash involving LH and he will get the blame (well may be) Bit like when he does not win the race its not his fault its the cars or the tyres or ANYTHING else but him You must be the only person on the planet to think that was Hamilton's fault today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 1 minute ago, nebristolred said: You must be the only person on the planet to think that was Hamilton's fault today. Not saying it was all his fault bet im not the only person on the planet who thinks he is part to blame I know for a fact LH wont take ANY of the blame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said: Not saying it was all his fault bet im not the only person on the planet who thinks he is part to blame I know for a fact LH wont take ANY of the blame Why on earth should LH take any blame? What else should he have done? At this point Verstappen should completely back out. He is not ahead, there is no gap to go for, and the little space that is there is fast running out. T2 in this situation has space for only one car and Hamilton is the one entitled to it. For Verstappen to also fit through there, Hamilton would pretty much have had to do a 90-degree right turn, why should he have to do that when it's his corner? When even Christian Horner is refusing to apportion blame to Hamilton and is calling it a 'racing incident', then you know Hamilton has done nothing wrong. Some people will criticise Hamilton for absolutely everything and clearly here is no exception for you. Edited September 12, 2021 by nebristolred 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, nebristolred said: Why on earth should LH take any blame? What else should he have done? At this point Verstappen should completely back out. He is not ahead, there is no gap to go for, and what little space that is there is fast running out. T2 in this situation has space for only one car and Hamilton is the one entitled to it. For Verstappen to also fit through there, Hamilton would pretty much have had to do a 90-degree right turn, why should he have to do that when it's his corner? When even Christian Horner is refusing to apportion blame to Hamilton and is calling it a 'racing incident', then you know Hamilton has done nothing wrong. Some people will criticise Hamilton for absolutely everything and clearly here is no exception for you. 3 place grid penalty for Max says it all. I lost respect for him today, not necessarily because of the incident but his attitude. He must have known he had been on top of Hamilton’s car and did not ask if he was ok. Radio message was basically “**** you” and he just walked off. Nasty little shit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarksRobin Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: 3 place grid penalty for Max says it all. I lost respect for him today, not necessarily because of the incident but his attitude. He must have known he had been on top of Hamilton’s car and did not ask if he was ok. Radio message was basically “**** you” and he just walked off. Nasty little shit His dad was the same when he was in F1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 Yep agreed, Jos has a bit of a track record of being a massive **** too. Combine that with the entitled-ness of the Red Bull team, it's no wonder Max is a bit of a jumped up idiot at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted September 12, 2021 Report Share Posted September 12, 2021 2 hours ago, nebristolred said: Max is a bit of a jumped up idiot at the moment. For balance let’s not forget he is young. Nothing wrong with being a bit cocky and he is a fantastic driver. Karen Horner needs to have a look at himself though - needs to be a better mentor to Max but he just want the title no matter what it seems. He is just doing his job today I suppose defending Max, but the incident was 70:30 his fault. Just own it and apologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 11 hours ago, nebristolred said: That's entirely Max's fault for me, not often I disagree with Brundle but I can't picture it any other way. Max is entitled to go into T1, Lewis gives him room. As they enter T2, Max is never making that corner, there is no room and he should back out, but he doesn't. And his radio message afterwards pretty much confirms that he knew it was naughty. Earlier in the race Max squeezes Lewis and Lewis backed off across the infield. Verstappen lacks the maturity to make that kind of decision and expects everyone to move out the way of him. The longer this season goes on, the more of a bellend he acts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 9 hours ago, Maltshoveller said: One day there will be a crash involving LH and he will get the blame (well may be) Bit like when he does not win the race its not his fault its the cars or the tyres or ANYTHING else but him Hamilton was at blame for his crash with Button at Canada 2011, that's one off the top of my head. There will be others too. So take your own blinkers off. Although, after your words on taking the knee one does wonder if there's a connection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 10 hours ago, walnutroof said: So Max gets a 3 place grid penalty, if red bull have any sense they’ll bring forward the change of power unit and thereby consolidate their penalties If Red bull did that then the FIA should delay the 3 place grid drop because it would be a clear action to undermine the punishment for dangerous driving. Not sure if there is a precedent for this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 In fairness a 3 place grid penalty is a nothing penalty which says that the FIA weren't completely sure if there was any blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) To be honest I was thinking it might be a 5-place grid penalty so it's probably fair. There's no doubt in my mind that Verstappen is at fault for this, and possibly intended it, but the decision point at which he had to back out was a time of probably around what, half a second? It's pure instinct at that point isn't it. It's cynical but it's not Dan Ticktum level of endangering drivers. Edited September 13, 2021 by nebristolred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 35 minutes ago, nebristolred said: To be honest I was thinking it might be a 5-place grid penalty so it's probably fair. There's no doubt in my mind that Verstappen is at fault for this, and possibly intended it, but the decision point at which he had to back out was a time of probably around what, half a second? It's pure instinct at that point isn't it. It's cynical but it's not Dan Ticktum level of endangering drivers. Having a real battle for the title is better for the sport, and I like Verstappen as a driver. He is very aggressive. My only issue at the weekend was his attitude after the crash. Not checking LH was OK after driving over his car was shocking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 7 hours ago, JamesBCFC said: If Red bull did that then the FIA should delay the 3 place grid drop because it would be a clear action to undermine the punishment for dangerous driving. Not sure if there is a precedent for this though. I don’t necessarily think it was dangerous driving and thought the same about Silverstone. What all sports fans ask for is consistency and that’s probably why a penalty was given yesterday. As far as I’m aware there’s nothing stopping them for taking the engine penalty at Sochi if they so wish. If Hamilton is going to need a new power unit at some point then maybe they could do that at Sochi too as he’d be in front of Verstappen but these engine penalties are farcical and punish the drivers more than the teams like when Honda engine was shit and they regularly had ridiculous penalties like 90 places or something stupid like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, walnutroof said: I don’t necessarily think it was dangerous driving and thought the same about Silverstone. What all sports fans ask for is consistency and that’s probably why a penalty was given yesterday. As far as I’m aware there’s nothing stopping them for taking the engine penalty at Sochi if they so wish. If Hamilton is going to need a new power unit at some point then maybe they could do that at Sochi too as he’d be in front of Verstappen but these engine penalties are farcical and punish the drivers more than the teams like when Honda engine was shit and they regularly had ridiculous penalties like 90 places or something stupid like that Well, it's for causing an incident. In either case, taking the engine penalty and avoiding the one for causing the crash is still undermining the FIA and shouldn't be possible (and this isn't just a Max thing, I can remember wondering about this when I was younger and thinking it was a stupid way the ruling can be exploited to avoid the intended punishment). Equally Hamilton could also take his engine change and drop at Sochi too, but if his is fine for a few more races then having to do it so Red Bull can avoid their drivers punishment is still a disadvantage to him because it means he is losing his engine being newer later in the season and having less wear, all to make sure Red Bull don't escape the punishment given to Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 Like a pair of petulant children, 'If I can't win, then you can't win either'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 11 hours ago, JamesBCFC said: Hamilton was at blame for his crash with Button at Canada 2011, that's one off the top of my head. There will be others too. So take your own blinkers off. Although, after your words on taking the knee one does wonder if there's a connection. Wow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 not even a real sport for me, lets see who has the fastest car and let them start at the front, just a procession Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted September 13, 2021 Report Share Posted September 13, 2021 The gap was not there to go for, and Max had no business in even trying to force the move. Was he really expecting Lewis to just pull wide and go "oh alright then seeing as you're trying to push me wide, have the position". He gambled, came massively unstuck, and made himself look a bit of a cock, especially when he got out of the car and just walked off, without even checking that Hamilton was OK, despite seeing his car on top of the other. That in itself, shows that he knew he was at fault straight away. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 9 hours ago, Taz said: The gap was not there to go for, and Max had no business in even trying to force the move. Was he really expecting Lewis to just pull wide and go "oh alright then seeing as you're trying to push me wide, have the position". He gambled, came massively unstuck, and made himself look a bit of a cock, especially when he got out of the car and just walked off, without even checking that Hamilton was OK, despite seeing his car on top of the other. That in itself, shows that he knew he was at fault straight away. Good driver but he is coming across as a bit of a tosser this year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 28 minutes ago, Rob k said: Good driver but he is coming across as a bit of a tosser this year. Verstappen at 24 is about the same age as Michael Schumacher, when he underwent a personality change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted September 14, 2021 Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 On 12/09/2021 at 18:08, Maltshoveller said: One day there will be a crash involving LH and he will get the blame (well may be) Bit like when he does not win the race its not his fault its the cars or the tyres or ANYTHING else but him Lewis Barton or Joey Hamilton ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted September 14, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted September 14, 2021 On 12/09/2021 at 18:34, TonyTonyTony said: 3 place grid penalty for Max says it all. I lost respect for him today, not necessarily because of the incident but his attitude. He must have known he had been on top of Hamilton’s car and did not ask if he was ok. Radio message was basically “**** you” and he just walked off. Nasty little shit I was watching on my phone in a field, so didn’t have the best view, but when Verstappen was getting out of his car, Hamilton was still trying to drive (reverse), so it was fairly obvious he was OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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