The Formula One Thread

[Maesknoll Red]

I’d love to see both teams data, how have Mercedes pulled back so much time this race?  That straight line speed is phenomenal.

[Kid in the Riot]

20 minutes ago, Arsene's Wanger said:

Yes, whatever you think of his opinions on certain things he is a phenomenal driver and one of the all time greats.

If only there was some obvious reason why some people don't like him 

I always like to think the best of people in the UK but I have to say it seems fairly obvious to me that the fact he's mixed race is an issue. He's a global megastar and great ambassador for this country yet seems to get minimal respect back home. 

He's likely to go down as one of our greatest ever sportsman so I guess some might have to come to terms with that. 

[Maesknoll Red]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I always like to think the best of people in the UK but I have to say it seems fairly obvious to me that the fact he's mixed race is an issue. He's a global megastar and great ambassador for this country yet seems to get minimal respect back home. 

He's likely to go down as one of our greatest ever sportsman so I guess some might have to come to terms with that. 

I’m not so sure, he has definitely come across as a ‘bit of a cock’ on occasions, other times he seems really quite a decent bloke, personally I don’t ultimately judge people I haven’t met and don’t know.  I can’t see that his mixed race is an issue.

He is undoubtedly a great Driver, he’s been fortunate (and that also relates to his ability) to be in a dominant car for several years now.  It’s been good for F1 that there has been and remains competition this season.  

 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Don't really understand how or why Lewis' greatness is still called into question. Comparing era's is of course hard. But especially if he wins an 8th title this season he surely has to go down as the greatest ever. 

He's not dull like Schumacher was either, he's a proper box office racing driver. 

Jim Clarke the greatest for me, but Hamilton has to be in the conversation. 

[Kid in the Riot]

20 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I’m not so sure, he has definitely come across as a ‘bit of a cock’ on occasions, other times he seems really quite a decent bloke, personally I don’t ultimately judge people I haven’t met and don’t know.  I can’t see that his mixed race is an issue.

He is undoubtedly a great Driver, he’s been fortunate (and that also relates to his ability) to be in a dominant car for several years now.  It’s been good for F1 that there has been and remains competition this season.  

You'll have to let me know which sporting greats don't come across as a bit of a cock sometimes.  I would suggest there are none... 

18 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Jim Clarke the greatest for me, but Hamilton has to be in the conversation. 

Clarke is up there for sure. But longevity is key to being a great for me and sadly, like Senna, he cannot claim success over a sustained period. 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You'll have to let me know which sporting greats don't come across as a bit of a cock sometimes.  I would suggest there are none... 

Clarke is up there for sure. But longevity is key to being a great for me and sadly, like Senna, he cannot claim success over a sustained period. 

Bits that give him an edge for me is that he wasn't just F1, but he raced everything. Pretty sure there was one year where he averaged at more than 1 race a week, and that's when travelling down to Australia would take multiple days.

He led for 95% of an Indy500 on his way to winning it, and in an F1 race he lost an entire lap, unlapped himself and retook the lead of the race, only to come third because the car had been underfuelled. 

Plus the comments from engineers about how they could look at components and tell which were from his car because they weren't worn down at all, and drivers of the time saying his death had to be a mechanical failure because Jim just didn't make mistakes.

Or how it's pretty widely accepted the only reason he didn't get more than 2 WDC was entirely down to the reliability of his Lotus.

I'm sure there's probably an element of bias in my view because he was so far before my time and not seeing him race, but he still has the record for % of laps led in one season over 50 years on, and both his titles he got the maximum points he possibly could (although that's with the different scoring system of the time).

 

Of course it's impossible to fairly compare drivers from different eras and good arguments could be made for Fangio, Senna, Hamilton and a few others no doubt.

[WarksRobin]

10 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I’d love to see both teams data, how have Mercedes pulled back so much time this race?  That straight line speed is phenomenal.

The rumour is that Mercedes has a flexible element in their diffuser which reduces drag at high speed. Red Bull are doing something similar with their rear wing which is why they are repairing it all the time. Flexible bodywork seems to be the new development area.

[grifty]

If I’ve got my maths right, if Hamilton wins the next two and Verstappen comes 2nd in the next two, we go to the last race with then bother level on points for the driver championship?

[nebristolred]

Not to go all Kevin Keegan, but I'd absolutely love it if Hamilton won it this year. Undoubtedly one of the greats already, and getting that 8th title would objectively give him a case for being the greatest ever. This is all during a season where they almost certainly haven't actually had the best car, up against the best young talent in years, and unfortunately with very little support from his teammate who I think checked out about 2 years ago.

I can see why he might not be to everyone's taste - he can come across as a little bit annoying, though I'd say in recent years he's far better. But I think there is an element of immaturity with all F1 drivers to some extent, I don't think they're quite emotionally developed like the rest of the population. They are almost entirely rich kids from rich families who had a very different upbringing to most, it's almost a perfect recipe for developing jumped up arrogant adults . But unlike Norris, Stroll, Verstappen, Sainz, Leclerc, etc, Hamilton was brought up with his Dad having worked long hours at 'normal' jobs so he probably does have genuine humility. We do have a great crop of young drivers at the moment though and having Russell and Norris in that mix is fantastic.

One thing to have come out of the past year or 2 is just how twattish the Red Bull lot are. You could always tell there was a bit of it, it's all part of the game, but the toys come out of the pram far more often with them, a total lack of class from the team in general (except for maybe Newey).

2 minutes ago, TomF said:

I honestly think we're going to see an incident in one of these remaining races.. 

Verstappen showed yesterday (and showed earlier in the season) that he will not race fairly when the stakes are at their highest. Completely agree and I think we could see Schumacher v Hill all over again if the Mercs can claw back some of the deficit.

Edited November 15, 2021 by nebristolred

[East Londoner]

32 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Not to go all Kevin Keegan, but I'd absolutely love it if Hamilton won it this year. Undoubtedly one of the greats already, and getting that 8th title would objectively give him a case for being the greatest ever. This is all during a season where they almost certainly haven't actually had the best car, up against the best young talent in years, and unfortunately with very little support from his teammate who I think checked out about 2 years ago.

I can see why he might not be to everyone's taste - he can come across as a little bit annoying, though I'd say in recent years he's far better. But I think there is an element of immaturity with all F1 drivers to some extent, I don't think they're quite emotionally developed like the rest of the population. They are almost entirely rich kids from rich families who had a very different upbringing to most, it's almost a perfect recipe for developing jumped up arrogant adults . But unlike Norris, Stroll, Verstappen, Sainz, Leclerc, etc, Hamilton was brought up with his Dad having worked long hours at 'normal' jobs so he probably does have genuine humility. We do have a great crop of young drivers at the moment though and having Russell and Norris in that mix is fantastic.

One thing to have come out of the past year or 2 is just how twattish the Red Bull lot are. You could always tell there was a bit of it, it's all part of the game, but the toys come out of the pram far more often with them, a total lack of class from the team in general (except for maybe Newey).

Verstappen showed yesterday (and showed earlier in the season) that he will not race fairly when the stakes are at their highest. Completely agree and I think we could see Schumacher v Hill all over again if the Mercs can claw back some of the deficit.

I actually wouldn’t have given him a penalty yesterday but would’ve made him give the place back 

 

[East Londoner]

13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I always like to think the best of people in the UK but I have to say it seems fairly obvious to me that the fact he's mixed race is an issue. He's a global megastar and great ambassador for this country yet seems to get minimal respect back home. 

He's likely to go down as one of our greatest ever sportsman so I guess some might have to come to terms with that. 

There is certainly an element of that and his standpoint on blm does make a certain proportion of the population uncomfortable. I won’t go any further as that subject has been done to death. There is also a certain amount of Hamilton winning fatigue which has nothing to do with his race, we had it when Schumacher was winning every week and winning the title every season and watching became pretty boring and to a lesser extent that was the case when Vettel was doing the same. I’m sure the German fans enjoyed it a little more though 

[East Londoner]

11 minutes ago, TomF said:

Funny one with Vettel is I couldn't stand him at Red Bull. Maybe its just a RB hatred or something, but I really have come around to appreciating him now. He's a proper F1 geek, have you seen the clip of him recalling every single F1 champion? Impressive levels.

I know what you mean would it have had anything to do with multi21? As he’s matured as a person i really like him now as well as respect what he’s achieved so wouldn’t necessarily say it’s particularly red bull related 

[OneTeamInBristol]

1 hour ago, grifty said:

If I’ve got my maths right, if Hamilton wins the next two and Verstappen comes 2nd in the next two, we go to the last race with then bother level on points for the driver championship?

Think the fastest lap points will have something to say about this as both teams will pull in Bottas and Perez to get the extra point at the end.

[TonyTonyTony]

1 hour ago, grifty said:

If I’ve got my maths right, if Hamilton wins the next two and Verstappen comes 2nd in the next two, we go to the last race with then bother level on points for the driver championship?

Yes. Currently 14 points in it, and 7 points difference between 1st and 2nd place.

Just been reading that Qatar should suit RB more, and Saudi being better suited to Mercedes. Could well come down to the last race in Abu Dhabi, which would be amazing.

[WarksRobin]

2 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Yes. Currently 14 points in it, and 7 points difference between 1st and 2nd place.

Just been reading that Qatar should suit RB more, and Saudi being better suited to Mercedes. Could well come down to the last race in Abu Dhabi, which would be amazing.

Mexico and Brazil were supposed to favour Red Bull and it didn’t work out like that. I don’t think you can assume either team is favourite because the tyre temps are so critical for both. Hot weather generally favours Red Bull and Ferrari

[redsince1994]

1 minute ago, TomF said:

They made a good point about that in the sky after show about it being utterly pointless at the moment.  LH should have had that extra point yesterday because he was easily the fastest person on the track but because the midfield pack are so far behind RB & Mercedes its just decended into a farce where the top two teams are simply taking off is winning on the other team front. 

Yeah it always annoys me, other than losing the fastest lap point only solution I could think of would be to ban pit stops in the last 5 laps unless there is damage or a puncture. 

[East Londoner]

6 hours ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Think the fastest lap points will have something to say about this as both teams will pull in Bottas and Perez to get the extra point at the end.

With the constructors championship being quite close it’ll be interesting to see how far they’re willing to go and which championship they’ll prioritise. The constructors one is where most from the prize money comes from after all 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, East Londoner said:

With the constructors championship being quite close it’ll be interesting to see how far they’re willing to go and which championship they’ll prioritise. The constructors one is where most from the prize money comes from after all 

With the reg changes and how they're limiting some times for things like wind tunnels it might be preferable to take the WDC and come second in the Constructors this year.

Neither side is short of money either way, but less restrictions on their development allocation could prove pivotal.

[PHILINFRANCE]

Surely the prestige is in the driver’s Championship.

[East Londoner]

19 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Surely the prestige is in the driver’s Championship.

Frank Williams always used to prioritise the constructors 

[PHILINFRANCE]

3 minutes ago, East Londoner said:

Frank Williams always used to prioritise the constructors 

He may well have done and, of course, the prize money is greater.

Williams, however, was a smaller team (financially) than Mercedes or Red Bull, and I remain convinced that the latter two would prefer the prestige and, consequently, the publicity and it’s own associated revenue that accompanies a F1 championship winner driving under their flag.

 

[Super]

18 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Surely the prestige is in the driver’s Championship.

It is for the drivers. Teams only interested in constructors

[TonyTonyTony]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

They've mysteriously found that onboard footage of Max now the race is over.

 

 

Mercedes asking for review since that footage came out. May as well have a go ! Doubt anything will happen

[nebristolred]

Isn't it something to do with the fact that each car can only have 1 camera live streamed from them? And in Max's case it was just the rear-facing one - they have to wait for the car to come in before downloading all of the other cameras?

If so I find it mad that the stewards cannot get the onboards from each driver live.

[PHILINFRANCE]

Lots of calls for MV to receive a 5 place grid penalty for Qatar next weekend.

Surely, if MV is to be penalised, and, based on this new footage, I am not convinced he should or will be, a retrospective 5 second penalty for this race would be more equitable and, ironically, more beneficial to Mercedes as it would demote MV to third, thus depriving him of three points and giving Bottas/Mercedes three extra points. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by PHILINFRANCE

[Lrrr]

Not the most knowledgeable F1 watcher but the commentators were saying they'd be interested in knowing if Max had straightened his steering wheel to edge Hamilton out, while he's hardly full lock or anything Max doesn't straighten his steering wheel. Would think he could argue he just misjudged just how late he could leave the corner given he hasn't straightened the wheel.

[TonyTonyTony]

30 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Not the most knowledgeable F1 watcher but the commentators were saying they'd be interested in knowing if Max had straightened his steering wheel to edge Hamilton out, while he's hardly full lock or anything Max doesn't straighten his steering wheel. Would think he could argue he just misjudged just how late he could leave the corner given he hasn't straightened the wheel.

Surely if he had misjudged the corner and felt he was going off he would have been on full lock. Unless there was another reason…

[Lrrr]

8 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Surely if he had misjudged the corner and felt he was going off he would have been on full lock. Unless there was another reason…

Because he's not on the racing line its harder to know how late he can leave the corner and turn in to catch the curb on the way out. To put it simply as said he hasn't straightened his steering wheel to direct him towards Lewis so I think proving intent to run Lewis off the road is harder to prove then that he was trying to turn to catch the curb on the way out with braking later to defend etc.

15 minutes ago, TomF said:

It would be nice to see comparison side by side of him taking that corner in previous laps.  

He wasn't on the racing line so hard for that comparison

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, nebristolred said:

Isn't it something to do with the fact that each car can only have 1 camera live streamed from them? And in Max's case it was just the rear-facing one - they have to wait for the car to come in before downloading all of the other cameras?

If so I find it mad that the stewards cannot get the onboards from each driver live.

Don't think so, in the replay shown in the race we had the camera on his steering wheel down the straight, but it switched to the rear facing one right at the corner entry.

[JamesBCFC]

18 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Because he's not on the racing line its harder to know how late he can leave the corner and turn in to catch the curb on the way out. To put it simply as said he hasn't straightened his steering wheel to direct him towards Lewis so I think proving intent to run Lewis off the road is harder to prove then that he was trying to turn to catch the curb on the way out with braking later to defend etc.

He wasn't on the racing line so hard for that comparison

But being off the racing line means he should be more cautious with the corner, and as Hamilton already has the position Max has to either turn in earlier to try and retake it, or cede the position. 

Not wait until he's virtually at the apex before turning, and then taking the position back by running them both off track.