The Formula One Thread

[Bristol Rob]

Only a month until the BTCC starts it's new season - some proper motorsport! 

[Lrrr]

On 20/03/2023 at 10:34, redsince1994 said:

At least the midfield battle is looking good

Agree, may actually use sky’s option to follow certain cars just to watch they group behind red bull 

[redsince1994]

1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

Agree, may actually use sky’s option to follow certain cars just to watch they group behind red bull 

For sure! If Merc can find a couple of tenths we could be in for some good Hamilton vs Alonso racing

[W-S-M Seagull]

On 05/03/2023 at 22:32, Maltshoveller said:

Yeah but they have Lewis driving for them  so they will win races

As we were told by LH fans it is NOT the car that wins it because Lewis is driving it!!!!!

or may be LH only won when he had the best car SHOCK

Red Bull fans also said that LH only won because of the car. 

I guess the same can also now be said for Max? 

The fact is the best drivers always end up in the best cars. 

Lewis has always had to beat his team mate. The same cannot be said for Max. His team mate is pretty much there to enable him to win. Not too dissimilar to the Schumacher days. 

The whole RB team and car is set up for Max. He even moaned at the weekend that Perez car was more reliable. They won't allow that to happen again.

[Bristol Rob]

https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/lewis-hamilton-ferrari-mercedes-charles-leclerc-b2305863.html

 

[Barrs Court Red]

Oz Gran Prix on a knife edge with 2 laps left is exactly what you want to see.  

[Lrrr]

Lewis into turn 1?

[Lrrr]

McLaren if they keep their positions 

[nebristolred]

What a farce this is

[Barrs Court Red]

47 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Oz Gran Prix on a knife edge with 2 laps left is exactly what you want to see.  

F1, takes knife, stabs itself in eye. 

[Lrrr]

9 minutes ago, TomF said:

Sums up the amount of pointless rules/regs FIA/F1 have.. totally pointless sending them around for one more lap about an hour after the first red flag that wasn't needed anyway.

Well they had to on the basis that they hadn't finished 58 laps so technically couldn't classify anyone, on that last lap safety car, say someone broke down then it would have changed that order, Sainz's 5 second penalty dictated a new order, if somehow a 5 second gap had opened up he wouldn't have. finished last etc

[Lrrr]

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Lrrr

[elhombrecito]

God, Max is a moaning **** isn't he.

[Barrs Court Red]

F1 has a Red Bull problem.  They’re so far ahead of everyone else it’s in real danger of turning into a procession again (at least for the podium).

 

 

[Maesknoll Red]

9 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

F1 has a Red Bull problem.  They’re so far ahead of everyone else it’s in real danger of turning into a procession again (at least for the podium).

 

 

It’s not new is it, periods of domination have been seen throughout F1.  It’s not F1’s problem , it’s the teams that haven’t developed their cars after the rule change problem and they need to catch up.  It’s part of the point of F1 - developing the best car within the rules.  Red Bull have Adrian Newey he is the difference in this cars development, Mercedes were pretty dominant for a long period, that drew criticism and comment.

[bearded_red]

They have to keep spending more and more time, effort and money on the ‘show’ before and after the race because the race itself is so painfully dull.

The actual sport is dying on its arse as far as I’m concerned.

[TonyTonyTony]

1 minute ago, bearded_red said:

The actual sport is dying on its arse as far as I’m concerned.

Agree. Not watched much this year tbh. All the rules / constant safety cars and sprint race bollocks is tiresome

[Maesknoll Red]

10 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Agree. Not watched much this year tbh. All the rules / constant safety cars and sprint race bollocks is tiresome

Not a single safety car or even yellow flag (IIRC)this race.  
 

I’m far from convinced the sprint race is worthwhile, but the rest of it is all about F1, Engineering, driving ability, reliability, strategy, and a bit of luck, with safety cars, yellow and red flags affecting the race.

If you want to watch cars that are limited in innovation and budget, there are plenty of race series that do just that - Formula Ford for one.

[Markthehorn]

3 hours ago, Barrs Court Red said:

F1 has a Red Bull problem.  They’re so far ahead of everyone else it’s in real danger of turning into a procession again (at least for the podium).

 

 

Doesn’t help no one else is consistent enough to compete fully with Red Bull (who themselves probably want Verstappen to win all the races) 

For example Ferrari are fine in qualifying but mess up pretty much every race whilst Mercedes are the opposite.

Ashton Martin relying on the ability of Alonso and the rest just hoping they have a good weekend.

Plus the street circuits don’t make for decent racing anyway unless there is an error or bold move .

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, Markthehorn said:

Doesn’t help no one else is consistent enough to compete fully with Red Bull (who themselves probably want Verstappen to win all the races) 

For example Ferrari are fine in qualifying but mess up pretty much every race whilst Mercedes are the opposite.

Ashton Martin relying on the ability of Alonso and the rest just hoping they have a good weekend.

Plus the street circuits don’t make for decent racing anyway unless there is an error or bold move .

But the whole point of the regulation change was to have closer and more exciting racing. The opposite has happened. F1 has a problem! 

Redbull dominating leaves a sour taste in the mouth due to them breaching the budget cap. By breaching it they were able to develop a better car than anyone else and because of that breach they are well ahead in the development curve of their car.

Horner said today that it will only be in the latter parts of the season will Red Bull feel the effects from the wind tunnel reduction penalty they received. So by default they continue to get a lasting benefit from that breach. He said he expects other teams go close the gap when that occurs. But it's too late by then isn't it? 

At least when Merc were dominating, they had two drivers that were allowed to fight for the Championship. That car Perez had today could not have been the same as Max's car. The whole Redbull team and its car is set up for Max and that's what is making it such a borefest.

[East Londoner]

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

But the whole point of the regulation change was to have closer and more exciting racing. The opposite has happened. F1 has a problem! 

Redbull dominating leaves a sour taste in the mouth due to them breaching the budget cap. By breaching it they were able to develop a better car than anyone else and because of that breach they are well ahead in the development curve of their car.

Horner said today that it will only be in the latter parts of the season will Red Bull feel the effects from the wind tunnel reduction penalty they received. So by default they continue to get a lasting benefit from that breach. He said he expects other teams go close the gap when that occurs. But it's too late by then isn't it? 

At least when Merc were dominating, they had two drivers that were allowed to fight for the Championship. That car Perez had today could not have been the same as Max's car. The whole Redbull team and its car is set up for Max and that's what is making it such a borefest.

Traditionally regulations are normally changed to slow down a dominant team rather than provide closer racing. It happened in the 90’s to slow down Williams then Ferrari, Red Bull and now Mercedes 

Red Bulls current dominance is somewhat exaggerated by the DRS which provides easy fake overtakes 

Actually 2021 leaves more of a sour taste, not so much because of Abu Dhabi but because there was a unplanned regulation change gave Red Bull an advantage 

[spudski]

This thread on twitter sums up F1 right now...those in the game...and those following. The replies put his patronising comment in its place. Yet he just dismisses them. F1 is in massive trouble imo...it's a circus of look at us. 

 

[Maesknoll Red]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

This thread on twitter sums up F1 right now...those in the game...and those following. The replies put his patronising comment in its place. Yet he just dismisses them. F1 is in massive trouble imo...it's a circus of look at us. 

 

,No different than it’s ever been, periods of dominance, can’t recall so many moaning when Mercedes were dominating- probably because Hamilton drives for them.

2016 - I don’t recall the circumstances that saw Ricciardo win the Malaysian GP, but I was at the Spanish GP to witness Rosberg and Hamilton take each other out, handing Verstappen his first win.  
 

 

[nebristolred]

11 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

,No different than it’s ever been, periods of dominance, can’t recall so many moaning when Mercedes were dominating- probably because Hamilton drives for them.

2016 - I don’t recall the circumstances that saw Ricciardo win the Malaysian GP, but I was at the Spanish GP to witness Rosberg and Hamilton take each other out, handing Verstappen his first win.  
 

 

The thing is here you're comparing dominating periods of cars as if they're equal, when they're quite clearly not. Firstly, for most of Hamilton's 6 titles with Mercedes he was at least in a Championship fight. In addition to the fight with other teams, you actually had a bit of beef between Hamilton and Rosberg who really wanted to go at each other, that was great, and most of the time the title wasn't decided after the first few races. None of that applies here, the title is already a foregone conclusion and the only 2 cars who might actually be able to fight at the front, are never allowed to do so.

Secondly, the racing is dreadful, largely due to the regulations but also thanks to the cost cap, which while well intentioned, means it will be nigh on impossible to catch up to a leading car over a regulation period, let alone over a year. Combine the fact that it is extremely difficult for a team to catch up with the leading team who are refusing to race, you have a recipe for a dreadfully boring race.

Then you have the size of the cars and the tracks. To be fair this is probably not hugely different to the Mercs period of dominance but it is certainly a factor. We have cars like buses which desperately need downsizing. You could almost forgive F1's use of some quite honestly dreadful tracks for racing (Bahrain, Miami, Monaco, Zandvoort, a few others produce very little) if the cars could actually physically overtake on most of these, but they just can't without a ridiculous pace advantage, which rarely comes up after qualifying.

Finally, and yes this is arguably a bit biased, but it's also a bit tricky to enjoy when you have the main beneficiaries of this being a team that are about as unsportsmanlike and cocky as you can get, and pride themselves in being so, while having the most jumped up and arrogant driver leading them. There was no humility following the farce of Abu Dhabi 2021, no public commiserations for the rest given that they were cheated, just scummy behaviour. And that's forgetting the fact they cheated regarding the cost cap and now by coincidence are miles ahead of everyone.

F1 was already on it's downward trend during the period of Merc dominance but this is without doubt a new low for F1, at least since the Schumacher years.

Edited May 9, 2023 by nebristolred

[nebristolred]

For reference. The cars are just obscenely large these days. I get that it's partially in the name of safety but there has to be a way around this. You watch any highlights or onboards from the late 90's and the cars look miniature.

[Lrrr]

14 hours ago, spudski said:

This thread on twitter sums up F1 right now...those in the game...and those following. The replies put his patronising comment in its place. Yet he just dismisses them. F1 is in massive trouble imo...it's a circus of look at us. 

 

The thing is Max didn't even need a perfect stop, wasn't his like 8 tenths slower than normal or something? (think I remember the commentary on that) And Max just breezed past Perez with Perez barely able to put up a fight. 

[spudski]

29 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

The thing is Max didn't even need a perfect stop, wasn't his like 8 tenths slower than normal or something? (think I remember the commentary on that) And Max just breezed past Perez with Perez barely able to put up a fight. 

I think the fact fans who have followed for 50 odd years are saying this is the worst season ever says a lot. 

The majority know the nuances of the sport. They aren't stupid. 

Sadly those running it and involved in it can't see the wood for the trees. 

Sadly it's one of those sports that will always attract the sponsors, and money. 

It's a place to go and be seen. 

The average fan means nothing to those running the sport imo. 

The overspend ' cheating' by Redbull has given them a massive lead in technical development, which other teams will fail to catch up with...and if they do it will be too late in the season. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by spudski

[nebristolred]

Pretty much agree with everything above, and what makes it even worse is that by every conceivable metric F1 is actually doing brilliantly. Never has the sport been so prominent or made so much money.

The problem is, a lot of it is superficial. Most of the new interest is sparked by a Netflix TV series that drums up tensions where they don't exist, that explicitly misleads the viewer by using team radio and camera clips from alternate races to portray a rivalry or argument that never actually happened, etc. So those coming in think it's great but actually are being mislead into believing complete untruths. It's not real racing.

Once upon a time it was a genuine big prize (Grand Prix) - where the cars had genuine innovation and differences and the drivers were able to push to really show their talents. Today it's little more than a procession of moving billboards going at a fixed pace due to tyre management and in an almost pre-determined order. It's about as far from pure racing as you can get.

F1 has definitely moved in the right direction with regard to fan involvement and media portrayal. If they can nail the actual racing somehow then it could be the best it's ever been, but at the moment it's really, really bad.

[spudski]

24 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Pretty much agree with everything above, and what makes it even worse is that by every conceivable metric F1 is actually doing brilliantly. Never has the sport been so prominent or made so much money.

The problem is, a lot of it is superficial. Most of the new interest is sparked by a Netflix TV series that drums up tensions where they don't exist, that explicitly misleads the viewer by using team radio and camera clips from alternate races to portray a rivalry or argument that never actually happened, etc. So those coming in think it's great but actually are being mislead into believing complete untruths. It's not real racing.

Once upon a time it was a genuine big prize (Grand Prix) - where the cars had genuine innovation and differences and the drivers were able to push to really show their talents. Today it's little more than a procession of moving billboards going at a fixed pace due to tyre management and in an almost pre-determined order. It's about as far from pure racing as you can get.

F1 has definitely moved in the right direction with regard to fan involvement and media portrayal. If they can nail the actual racing somehow then it could be the best it's ever been, but at the moment it's really, really bad.

I agree about the Netflix series...it's very good. But as you say, makes the competition look more competitive than it is. 

I find it astonishing that F1 gets 1.54 billion people watching it still. 

https://www.autoracing1.com/pl/391481

Sadly F1 is all about technical development. 

Do fans really care about that? 

They'd rather have more limits on cars, and down to driver ability rather than who's developed the best car. It's always been that way though. However imo... we are too reliant on tech. 

Ask any of the drivers, and they always say Kart racing was their most enjoyable days...as it's more pure. 

[Maesknoll Red]

On 09/05/2023 at 12:42, spudski said:

I agree about the Netflix series...it's very good. But as you say, makes the competition look more competitive than it is. 

I find it astonishing that F1 gets 1.54 billion people watching it still. 

https://www.autoracing1.com/pl/391481

Sadly F1 is all about technical development. 

Do fans really care about that? 

They'd rather have more limits on cars, and down to driver ability rather than who's developed the best car. It's always been that way though. However imo... we are too reliant on tech. 

Ask any of the drivers, and they always say Kart racing was their most enjoyable days...as it's more pure. 

This fan cares about technical development, it’s my main interest in the sport.