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The Formula One Thread


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12 minutes ago, TomF said:

So you admit that Hamilton is the superior then. 

No, I don't believe he is

12 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Dont think anybody is saying rank average

Just that however good he is he wouldnt be 7 times world champion if he drove for say Haas or Racing point

This is the point.

Any other car a novice driver debuts in wouldn't probably make final qualifying, not alone the front row

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1 hour ago, phantom said:

No, I don't believe he is

This is the point.

Any other car a novice driver debuts in wouldn't probably make final qualifying, not alone the front row

Sorry you don’t believe Hamilton is superior to Bottas?


George Russell isn’t a novice driver driver. He is someone that, up until today, had beaten his teammates in qualifying 36 times in a row, a record only beaten by Schumacher and Senna.

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Quite how anybody can deny that Lewis Hamilton is one of the greats is beyond me. 

Yes, the Mercedes is obviously the best car, and of course he'd struggle to win the title in any of the other cars. But name me one World Champion who hasn't had one of the best cars. 

He's consistently outperformed his teammates over his years at Mercedes in an identical car (and don't give me any rubbish about him getting all the good parts before his teammates, Mercedes do not operate with a 'number one' driver and treat both equally).

And as for Russell being a novice - he's had almost two full seasons in F1, until today had never been beaten by a teammate in qualifying, has won every category he's raced in, and has already tested this car so knows it well. He's a future World Champion.

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51 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Sorry you don’t believe Hamilton is superior to Bottas?


George Russell isn’t a novice driver driver.

Didn't say anything about Hamilton not being a better driver than Bottas, the point is the car is A MASSIVE factor in his records.

George Russell is obviously a novice driver in Formula 1 racing terms compared to Hamilton. 

32 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Quite how anybody can deny that Lewis Hamilton is one of the greats is beyond me. 

....and don't give me any rubbish about him getting all the good parts before his teammates, Mercedes do not operate with a 'number one' driver and treat both equally

He's a future World Champion.

He's one of the greats majorly because of the superior car he drives, there is not a chance he would have been near his record in any other team. 

It's well documented that Hamilton gets priority on parts and improvements  Bottas has spoken about it many times too.

Let's hope so

....................

Let's see him go to any other team in F1 and dominate the same 

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3 minutes ago, phantom said:

Didn't say anything about Hamilton not being a better driver than Bottas, the point is the car is A MASSIVE factor in his records.

George Russell is obviously a novice driver in Formula 1 racing terms compared to Hamilton. 

He's one of the greats majorly because of the superior car he drives, there is not a chance he would have been near his record in any other team. 

It's well documented that Hamilton gets priority on parts and improvements  Bottas has spoken about it many times too.

Let's hope so

There is no chance that any of the greats of Formula 1 would have the records they did without having a great car too. You get to be in the best car by being one of the best drivers. 

I don't believe it is well documented at all, in fact Mercedes tend to go out of their way to give both drivers equal opportunities.

The fact is that Hamilton is an all time great, and it honestly staggers me that there is even a debate about it.

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14 minutes ago, phantom said:

Didn't say anything about Hamilton not being a better driver than Bottas, the point is the car is A MASSIVE factor in his records.

George Russell is obviously a novice driver in Formula 1 racing terms compared to Hamilton. 

Yes, obviously the car is a massive factor in his success. That is so obvious I can’t believe you think it needs pointing out. Clearly Vettel was helped by a dominant Red Bull, Schumacher was helped by a dominant Ferrari and so on..

That doesn’t change the fact that he is quite obviously a great. Would he win the championship in a Alfa Romeo? No. Would he beat anyone else out put in an Alfa Romeo with him and get results the Alfa doesn’t deserve? Yes.

As Carlos Sainz said in the week, 90% of drivers would win the championship in a Mercedes, but 90% of drivers wouldn’t win it if Hamilton was their team mate.

If you want to talk about novice drivers, how about an actual rookie, not one with two full seasons, who at the age of 22 beat the two time reigning champion in the same car? What was his name again? Oh yeah, Lewis Hamilton.

Edited by bearded_red
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21 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Yes, obviously the car is a massive factor in his success. That is so obvious I can’t believe you think it needs pointing out. Clearly Vettel was helped by a dominant Red Bull, Schumacher was helped by a dominant Ferrari and so on..

That doesn’t change the fact that he is quite obviously a great. Would he win the championship in a Alfa Romeo? No. Would he beat anyone else out put in an Alfa Romeo with him and get results the Alfa doesn’t deserve? Yes.

As Carlos Sainz said in the week, 90% of drivers would win the championship in a Mercedes, but 90% of drivers wouldn’t win it if Hamilton was their team mate.

If you want to talk about novice drivers, how about an actual rookie, not one with two full seasons, who at the age of 22 beat the two time reigning champion in the same car? What was his name again? Oh yeah, Lewis Hamilton.

Let’s not also forget how bad the Ferrari was when MS joined them - he way out performed in that car in the same way, perhaps, that GR has done in the Williams this season. He clearly is going to be one to watch, especially if he gets the Merc drive in 2022

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9 hours ago, TomF said:

Let’s not also forget how bad the Ferrari was when MS joined them - he way out performed in that car in the same way, perhaps, that GR has done in the Williams this season. He clearly is going to be one to watch, especially if he gets the Merc drive in 2022

If Mercedes stay dominant, whoever gets the drive with them will be one to watch, doubt they’ll employ another Bottas when Lewis quits.  But maybe the rule changes will even things up, who knows.

Lets see what the race brings, if Red Bull get the strategy right, it’s a good chance for Max (could be final nail in Albon’s career as well).

Hamilton is obviously leading the pack because of ability and car, the car element shows how a Driver who hasn’t started on the front row before and has 0 world championship points was outstanding in P1 and P2 and was just pipped for pole.  Bottas showing that experience in the car pays off, but, that could all blown out of the water, by a safety car, car failure etc.  Should be a great race.

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I think pre 2010 Schumacher is great because he regularly trashed his team mates and performed even better when the rain came. He has the DQ year, and when he broke his leg he was even with Irvine IIRC as the only failures in the standing IMO.

I'm not so high on Hamilton because of the losses to Button and Rosberg even though the Rosberg title was filled with reliability issues admittedly.

So if Schumacher continually trashed Barichello, who was close to Button, who beat Hamilton or was close, then that puts Schumacher ahead for me. Plus and this isn't Hamilton's fault, I got to see Schumacher in a worse car more often so he had the opportunity to out perform his team mates by more. Having two drivers 1st and 2nd looks different to 3rd and 10th as memories fade of actual performances.

Bottas has wins over Massa at Williams. Who Schumacher also beat up on. Russell in qualifying is definitely making Bottas look bad though. Bottas needs to dominate in the race (assuming nothing weird happens) or questions about how good he is will heighten dramatically. If you're Lewis Hamilton, you either want Bottas to as well, because if you have the best car and your team mate doesn't look so good, it takes away some of your achievement too, or you want Russell to turn out to be a superstar (after you beat him and retire).

Anyway, this mix up, brings in a tonnes of fun story lines and intrigue to the race, which with the titles over, I wasn't that interested in.

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2 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

At least the Sky presenters didn’t give the handwringing apologies of the football commentators when Toto Wolff told the truth.....

Yeah that annoys me. Simon just said "we'll have to apologise for that", but it was very obvious he'd just said it. Half the football commentators say it and I've not even heard what they are apologising for. If it was really loud into a microphone I could understand it, but who are the people who have complained about bad language in the background of a football match? Has there ever been a complaint?

I used to work in a complaints department for a car manufacturer, and someone actually took the time to call us, lodge a complaint (which probably took them 30 mins) to complain that they saw a cleaner in the showroom heading towards the toilets with a clean toilet brush to replace an old one.

That was it.

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Gutting for Russell. "It's all about the car and not the driver" bollocks. He still had to drive it!!

When does Bottas's contract expire? He must be thinking his spot is under threat after that.

After the cock up with the tyre, ended up nearer the back of the grid, and to still pull it back and finish where he did is nothing short of a great drive in It's own right!!

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