cidercity1987 Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 Thought it was a good performance last night and high entertainment value. Just missing the final pass from our reserves. Another vote here for Grealish at the top of a midfield three behind Sterling, Kane and Rashford - that would be a great attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 45 minutes ago, Harry said: I've certainly been in a minority on this board regards Grealish. I've always loved him and think he's a superb talent, and I'm glad he's starting to get a bit of recognition. Lots of people don't like him because he's had a bit of a chequered history. Lots of people don't like him because he plays for Villa. Lots of people don't like him because they think he dives a lot. I hope that people who watched that game closely last night who say he dives, can see how much of a kicking he usually gets, in particular last night from Alderweireld. This is supposed to be one of the best defenders in the world, and he couldn't handle him and had to foul him almost every time he got close. Grealish doesn't dive. What he does is entice opponents in, and then has such a quick body shift, that the defender is late and makes contact. Does he go down easy? Yes, sometimes. But what footballer doesn't these days! But he generally takes quite a bit of punishment, and he gets up, gets on, and takes it again. He's very resilient. For those who criticise his output, or 'stats'. His stats for Villa don't show the amount of assists you'd perhaps want. But guess what. He creates chances, loads of them. The fact Villa haven't had the people to convert those chances is the problem, not Jacks' creativity. Also, look a little further back. Jack so so often plays the pass before the assist. He may not have the assist record, but he has a brilliant 'assist the assist' record. He draws opponents onto him, either by teasing them to come close, or by running at them. he often attracts more than one player, meaning he's able to draw them in and then pop a pass away to a teammate in plenty of space, thus enabling that teammate to create a goal or chance. He is so so good at this. He may not be a huge scorer or assister, but he's a massive 'enabler'. He drives his team forward and creates space for others by drawing opponents in and being a threat. The amount of fouls he draws should be seen as a positive. A couple of times last night, he shows for the ball from the defence, to enable them to play out under pressure, and if he's in his own half or half way line, he cleverly tempts the defender in and manages to draw a foul. This relieves pressure for the defence, letting them pass the ball out into midfield, we win the free kick and are able to have a controlled possession. In fact, he did this literally a minute before their first goal. If that Dier (dire) pass is attempted into Grealish, we likely don't concede as he'd have likely won a free kick. Similarly at the other end of the pitch. Winning free kicks on the edge of the box. How important are set pieces in international football? Hugely so! To have someone who will win you so many free kicks (thus scoring opportunities, a free shot at goal) is massive in international football. He's also excellent in tight spaces. How many passes is he able to make in a congested box - essential for trying to break down those 'Iceland-type' defences. For me, he should have been in the England team for at least the last 2 years, maybe more. Why it's taken Southgate so long I don't know. The kid should have 40 caps by now. I love the bloke and think he's the biggest talent we have in this country. He also shouldn't be played on the left wing. He had a lot more freedom in the 2nd half last night and he revelled in it. He needs to start centrally, behind the strikers, allowing him to effect the game all over the pitch. let him have 80, 90, 100 touches per game and he'll create numerous chances. Sticking him on the wing, where he'll get 20 touches per half just restricts the most creative player in the country. He does dive a lot. I think that's uncontestable. When he played at the Gate, I coughed in Dolman Row 42 and he went down holding his head. OK, not that, but he certainly threw himself down theatrically on more than one occasion under the most innocuous of touches. I seem to remember Jack Hunt brushing against Grealish's shirt and the greasy-haired Brummy's arm shot up in appeal a nanosecond later - before he'd even started his dying fly routine. HOWEVER, I agree with the rest of your post. He's an absolute key player for England who is the form of his life and is a massive, massive talent. A genuinely creative player who should be utilised centrally, where he'll pick out chances others can't see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Harry said: I've certainly been in a minority on this board regards Grealish. I've always loved him and think he's a superb talent, and I'm glad he's starting to get a bit of recognition. Lots of people don't like him because he's had a bit of a chequered history. Lots of people don't like him because he plays for Villa. Lots of people don't like him because they think he dives a lot. I hope that people who watched that game closely last night who say he dives, can see how much of a kicking he usually gets, in particular last night from Alderweireld. This is supposed to be one of the best defenders in the world, and he couldn't handle him and had to foul him almost every time he got close. Grealish doesn't dive. What he does is entice opponents in, and then has such a quick body shift, that the defender is late and makes contact. Does he go down easy? Yes, sometimes. But what footballer doesn't these days! But he generally takes quite a bit of punishment, and he gets up, gets on, and takes it again. He's very resilient. For those who criticise his output, or 'stats'. His stats for Villa don't show the amount of assists you'd perhaps want. But guess what. He creates chances, loads of them. The fact Villa haven't had the people to convert those chances is the problem, not Jacks' creativity. Also, look a little further back. Jack so so often plays the pass before the assist. He may not have the assist record, but he has a brilliant 'assist the assist' record. He draws opponents onto him, either by teasing them to come close, or by running at them. he often attracts more than one player, meaning he's able to draw them in and then pop a pass away to a teammate in plenty of space, thus enabling that teammate to create a goal or chance. He is so so good at this. He may not be a huge scorer or assister, but he's a massive 'enabler'. He drives his team forward and creates space for others by drawing opponents in and being a threat. The amount of fouls he draws should be seen as a positive. A couple of times last night, he shows for the ball from the defence, to enable them to play out under pressure, and if he's in his own half or half way line, he cleverly tempts the defender in and manages to draw a foul. This relieves pressure for the defence, letting them pass the ball out into midfield, we win the free kick and are able to have a controlled possession. In fact, he did this literally a minute before their first goal. If that Dier (dire) pass is attempted into Grealish, we likely don't concede as he'd have likely won a free kick. Similarly at the other end of the pitch. Winning free kicks on the edge of the box. How important are set pieces in international football? Hugely so! To have someone who will win you so many free kicks (thus scoring opportunities, a free shot at goal) is massive in international football. He's also excellent in tight spaces. How many passes is he able to make in a congested box - essential for trying to break down those 'Iceland-type' defences. For me, he should have been in the England team for at least the last 2 years, maybe more. Why it's taken Southgate so long I don't know. The kid should have 40 caps by now. I love the bloke and think he's the biggest talent we have in this country. He also shouldn't be played on the left wing. He had a lot more freedom in the 2nd half last night and he revelled in it. He needs to start centrally, behind the strikers, allowing him to effect the game all over the pitch. let him have 80, 90, 100 touches per game and he'll create numerous chances. Sticking him on the wing, where he'll get 20 touches per half just restricts the most creative player in the country. Without diving (no pun intended) into the detail of your post, I think what we’ve seen is an improvement in his team-play over the past 12 months. He was a bit raw up until then, and tried to do too much on his own. Maybe he could get away with it in the Champ, but he’s matured his game by playing in the Prem. The other problem is that until recently (last half a dozen games) Southgate had tended to play 433 or 532 and I could argue that he didn’t fit Southgate’s view of one of his 3 CMs, which was a narrow 3. Couple that with Sterling, Rashford, Sancho etc being ahead of him in the forward / wide forward roles and it’s been difficult to justify his inclusion. I understood the clamour for his inclusion, but I could see why Southgate picked others ahead of him up until now. Some of the vitriol to Southgate for not picking him was way OTT. However Southgate has changed the make-up of his side and it now looks like there is room for Grealish, he’s been picked and he’s doing well according to most (I’ve not really watched the games nor watched them intently). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Harry said: I've certainly been in a minority on this board regards Grealish. I've always loved him and think he's a superb talent, and I'm glad he's starting to get a bit of recognition. Lots of people don't like him because he's had a bit of a chequered history. Lots of people don't like him because he plays for Villa. Lots of people don't like him because they think he dives a lot. I hope that people who watched that game closely last night who say he dives, can see how much of a kicking he usually gets, in particular last night from Alderweireld. This is supposed to be one of the best defenders in the world, and he couldn't handle him and had to foul him almost every time he got close. Grealish doesn't dive. What he does is entice opponents in, and then has such a quick body shift, that the defender is late and makes contact. Does he go down easy? Yes, sometimes. But what footballer doesn't these days! But he generally takes quite a bit of punishment, and he gets up, gets on, and takes it again. He's very resilient. For those who criticise his output, or 'stats'. His stats for Villa don't show the amount of assists you'd perhaps want. But guess what. He creates chances, loads of them. The fact Villa haven't had the people to convert those chances is the problem, not Jacks' creativity. Also, look a little further back. Jack so so often plays the pass before the assist. He may not have the assist record, but he has a brilliant 'assist the assist' record. He draws opponents onto him, either by teasing them to come close, or by running at them. he often attracts more than one player, meaning he's able to draw them in and then pop a pass away to a teammate in plenty of space, thus enabling that teammate to create a goal or chance. He is so so good at this. He may not be a huge scorer or assister, but he's a massive 'enabler'. He drives his team forward and creates space for others by drawing opponents in and being a threat. The amount of fouls he draws should be seen as a positive. A couple of times last night, he shows for the ball from the defence, to enable them to play out under pressure, and if he's in his own half or half way line, he cleverly tempts the defender in and manages to draw a foul. This relieves pressure for the defence, letting them pass the ball out into midfield, we win the free kick and are able to have a controlled possession. In fact, he did this literally a minute before their first goal. If that Dier (dire) pass is attempted into Grealish, we likely don't concede as he'd have likely won a free kick. Similarly at the other end of the pitch. Winning free kicks on the edge of the box. How important are set pieces in international football? Hugely so! To have someone who will win you so many free kicks (thus scoring opportunities, a free shot at goal) is massive in international football. He's also excellent in tight spaces. How many passes is he able to make in a congested box - essential for trying to break down those 'Iceland-type' defences. For me, he should have been in the England team for at least the last 2 years, maybe more. Why it's taken Southgate so long I don't know. The kid should have 40 caps by now. I love the bloke and think he's the biggest talent we have in this country. He also shouldn't be played on the left wing. He had a lot more freedom in the 2nd half last night and he revelled in it. He needs to start centrally, behind the strikers, allowing him to effect the game all over the pitch. let him have 80, 90, 100 touches per game and he'll create numerous chances. Sticking him on the wing, where he'll get 20 touches per half just restricts the most creative player in the country. We play 3 4 3 with the 2 behind Kane given licence. What England need with him is a balance of attackers. There was no pace last night. Combine him with Sterling and Kane and you a balanced threat. What we desperately need though is an attack minded CM next to Henderson. Likes of Winks, Rice simply aren't up to it. Someone like Ward Prowse or Mount need to play in the middle to improve service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 5 hours ago, DT The Optimist said: Grealish an amazing talent, even as a 17 or 16 old playing for Notts County against us. Often unpopular here, accused of rolling around after being booted 22 feet into space No, should be a starter, given a deep role would cause havoc to any opposition. As another poster said better than Gazza? In so many ways they are very similar players , in particular running at and past the opposition to make something happen. However, I think there is a major difference that marks Gazza as being exceptional and better. Gazza had the body and mental strength to ride challenges, so that his mazy runs through the opposition defence created opportunities in the penalty area. All too often similar challenges cause Grealish to go down too easily, creating the impression is that he sees a free kick around the edge of the box as being a good outcome, when staying on his feet would make him an even more dangerous player. It might be that Grealish is conditioned this way because of the way that football is these days, and there is no doubt he attracts more than his fair share of hefty tackles, but it does seem that he has attracted the tag as a diver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 Agreed, to compare him with Gazza is doing a disservice to Gazza IMO. Why, because Gazza could ride a tackle, as he had much greater upper body strength than Grealish. One of the reasons why Gazza was just sooo gooood. I was lucky to watch Gazza play for England on several occasions home and away, and he is the best English midfielder I have seen in my lifetime by some way. Pure genius. Gazza no.1 but Grealish did look good v Belgium. But not in Gaza’s class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 53 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said: Agreed, to compare him with Gazza is doing a disservice to Gazza IMO. Why, because Gazza could ride a tackle, as he had much greater upper body strength than Grealish. One of the reasons why Gazza was just sooo gooood. I was lucky to watch Gazza play for England on several occasions home and away, and he is the best English midfielder I have seen in my lifetime by some way. Pure genius. Gazza no.1 but Grealish did look good v Belgium. But not in Gaza’s class. Gazza comparisons are unnecessary and certainly too early. I agree with you there. However, the ‘riding a challenge’ thing. Did you see that immaculate flick last night, which he then took a kick in the ribs, but carried on. He can ride a tackle for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Harry said: Gazza comparisons are unnecessary and certainly too early. I agree with you there. However, the ‘riding a challenge’ thing. Did you see that immaculate flick last night, which he then took a kick in the ribs, but carried on. He can ride a tackle for sure. Looked good last night to be fair. But has a bit of a reputation for going down too easily. As stated earlier in the thread, watched him down AG and he was like me after too many Thatchers!! Defo an improving player though and has to feature more in future England games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 I thought we actually played ok last night with a weakened team. Dont see much to worry about with Southgate we have every chance next summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 13 hours ago, Super said: I thought we actually played ok last night with a weakened team. Dont see much to worry about with Southgate we have every chance next summer. Not that weakened. Granted anytime we play Dier we are very weakened. He's rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 17, 2020 Admin Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 All 22 players tested negative after the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 19 hours ago, Super said: I thought we actually played ok last night with a weakened team. Dont see much to worry about with Southgate we have every chance next summer. That is just delusional. Do you really think we will progress beyond the second round by beating France or Germany ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 The game was over in the first 25 minutes. We cant keep ignoring this ill discipline, and inconsistency. It needs to be sorted now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said: That is just delusional. Do you really think we will progress beyond the second round by beating France or Germany ? With home advantage yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Super said: With home advantage yes. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 minute ago, 2015 said: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Lets wait and see. Obviously Southgate will be history if we flop but home advantage gives us a massive chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 33 minutes ago, Super said: Lets wait and see. Obviously Southgate will be history if we flop but home advantage gives us a massive chance. I just think if we lost to France or Germany, it wouldn't be a shock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, 2015 said: I just think if we lost to France or Germany, it wouldn't be a shock You are prob right and we would have to play our best to beat them without doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, Super said: You are prob right and we would have to play our best to beat them without doubt. As much as we have some talented players, consider this. Germany have Low as manager still, after 14 years, and havd as much talented players as we do. Also, are proven Tournament side. France, World champions, have absolute strength in depth and are Tournament favourites. In my eyes we would do well to beat them, even at Wembley. We are good, just not where Germany and France are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 57 minutes ago, 2015 said: As much as we have some talented players, consider this. Germany have Low as manager still, after 14 years, and havd as much talented players as we do. Also, are proven Tournament side. France, World champions, have absolute strength in depth and are Tournament favourites. In my eyes we would do well to beat them, even at Wembley. We are good, just not where Germany and France are. Germany getting completely and utterly destroyed by Spain tonight. Men against boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: Germany getting completely and utterly destroyed by Spain tonight. Men against boys. Germany in a Tournament though, different animal (bar 2018). Spain are another side i'd put ahead of ourselves though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, 2015 said: Germany in a Tournament though, different animal (bar 2018). Spain are another side i'd put ahead of ourselves though Have you seen any of it? Trust me, if this was England on the receiving end of what Spain have dished out tonight we would be having the meltdown of all meltdowns!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: Have you seen any of it? Trust me, if this was England on the receiving end of what Spain have dished out tonight we would be having the meltdown of all meltdowns!!!!!! We can only hope Germany continue that form into the Euros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, 2015 said: We can only hope Germany continue that form into the Euros Too true. 4-0 now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: Too true. 4-0 now!! Incredible. Fantastic seeing the Germans getting a hammering, made the World Cup in 2018 all the better. They will always be a force though when it comes to the Tournament for England to get passed though sadly, they have our number. 5-0 now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 As crap as Germany were tonight, a word for the Spanish. Looked fantastic flowing football unlike the stuff they have served up the last few years. The movement off the ball and the right pass was a joy to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 13 hours ago, Super said: With home advantage yes. The first knockout against either of these two is in Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said: The first knockout against either of these two is in Ireland. Ah ok cheers mate. Thought all our games were at Wembley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 13 hours ago, 2015 said: As much as we have some talented players, consider this. Germany have Low as manager still, after 14 years, and havd as much talented players as we do. Also, are proven Tournament side. France, World champions, have absolute strength in depth and are Tournament favourites. In my eyes we would do well to beat them, even at Wembley. We are good, just not where Germany and France are. I think we could give Germany a good game but agree that France are better at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 Think it’s fair to say Grealish has suddenly emerged as a very likely starter for Euros The comparisons to Gaza’s have been discussed but it’s uncanny how Sir Bobby (A la Southgate) wasn’t sure whether he could ‘trust’ Gazza leading up to 1990 World Cup I was there when he played him against Czechs at Wembley and he tore them up and scored after dancing past several players - Robson was seen shaking his head laughing and telling those alongside him ‘That’s Brilliant’ Another scintillating performance against Albania and Gazza was in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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