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Belgium v England.


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17 minutes ago, SuperRed said:

Yes I would like us to go with those 3 up front and Grealish the more advanced one in a midfield 3 with Winks and Henderson. 

Yep I like that. 

I don't think people will moan as much with Henderson & Rice in midfield if you have those grealish, sterling, Rashford and kane up top. 

It's about trying to strike the right balance. 

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Being on a minus goal diffrence in this leauge after 5 games tells you eveything you need to know.

He couldnt cut it in leauge football, because he couldnt string two results together.

We are seeing the same here, and its been going on for way too long.

Too much has gone on off the field on his watch, beyond a joke now.

Get somebody in who wants to play decent football.

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No one wants to stand by a manager in rough patch these days, constantly changing manager doesn't always fix an issue.

Seen it at City, already this season after a couple of bad results someone people wanted Dean out.

Up until the Covid situation, people were generally happy with Southgate and the performances we were getting. It's been a poor Nations League campaign but it's been wedged in between 9 months of complete uncertainty in football and then gruelling domestic schedules.

I'll judge him when he gets a full strength side to pick from, and not a right back, a midfielder and a 6/7th choice CB starting in our back three.

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55 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

No one wants to stand by a manager in rough patch these days, constantly changing manager doesn't always fix an issue.

Seen it at City, already this season after a couple of bad results someone people wanted Dean out.

Up until the Covid situation, people were generally happy with Southgate and the performances we were getting. It's been a poor Nations League campaign but it's been wedged in between 9 months of complete uncertainty in football and then gruelling domestic schedules.

I'll judge him when he gets a full strength side to pick from, and not a right back, a midfielder and a 6/7th choice CB starting in our back three.

He needs to go back to basics.  Identify the players and system he wants to use and start from there.  Appreciate you get injuries and stuff, but that’s why you have a squad, and a whole country to then pick from.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He needs to go back to basics.  Identify the players and system he wants to use and start from there.  Appreciate you get injuries and stuff, but that’s why you have a squad, and a whole country to then pick from.

Agree - he also needs to start Phil Foden - any other country would be giving him international minutes before a tournament. 

He has the potential to be our most creative player.

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Grealish an amazing talent, even as a 17 or 16 old playing for Notts County against us. Often unpopular here, accused of rolling around after being booted 22 feet into space 😀

No, should be a starter, given a deep role would cause havoc to any opposition. As another poster said better than Gazza?

Edited by DT The Optimist
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5 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Being on a minus goal diffrence in this leauge after 5 games tells you eveything you need to know.

He couldnt cut it in leauge football, because he couldnt string two results together.

We are seeing the same here, and its been going on for way too long.

Too much has gone on off the field on his watch, beyond a joke now.

Get somebody in who wants to play decent football.

Are you really saying we didn’t play decent football last night? We lost the game because of two errors, one by the ref, otherwise we were by far the better side and we had the best two players on the park in Grealish and Kane. There were times in the second half when Belgium literally resorted to booting the ball up the park because they were out on their feet.

My only criticisms were the sloppy first goal and a lack of cutting edge ultimately but then again look at the players we had missing.

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26 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Grealish an amazing talent, even as a 17 or 16 old playing for Notts County against us. Often unpopular here, accused of rolling around after being booted 22 feet into space 😀

No, should be a starter, given a deep role would cause havoc to any opposition. As another poster said better than Gazza?

Better than Gazza ?

Very Good player and improving but not Gascoigne status , certainly if you look at a Gazza pre injury

Unfortunately we never got to see Gascoigne fulfil his full potential but I went to all England games during his period and as a 22 yr old he destroyed some sides - breathtaking at times and gave us so much momentum and ‘sting’ (In fairness Grealish gives us more momentum and a sting too) . He also had a change of pace / burst of acceleration , and strength which allowed him to burst last 2 or 3 opponents at a time
 

I was also lucky enough to see Gascoigne on the training pitch at Italia 90 , a number of times ,and he was extraordinary , plus had the incredible personality to add a real X factor 

The Post Injury Gazza was never quite the same but could still boss a game and add some sparkle
 

I can see the reason for the comparison with Gazza as they bring similar qualities , but Gazza for me 

Edited by Sheltons Army
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Grealish has one good game in an England shirt and he is already being hailed as better than gazza. That right there is the problem with English football. 
Gazza did it for England in major tournaments he also set Seria A alight - Grealish has a LONG way to go before he can be called a better talent than Gascoigne ffs.

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1 minute ago, bris red said:

Grealish has one good game in an England shirt and he is already being hailed as better than gazza. That right there is the problem with English football. 
Gazza did it for England in major tournaments he also set Seria A alight - Grealish has a LONG way to go before he can be called a better talent than Gascoigne ffs.

Agree totally BUT he needs to be given a run of games to show us whether he can do it regularly or not. He’s been playing well for a while now and if he doesn’t take confidence from that performance he never will!!

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13 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Better than Gazza ?

Very Good player and improving but not Gascoigne status , certainly if you look at a Gazza pre injury

Unfortunately we never got to see Gascoigne fulfil his full potential but I went to all England games during his period and as a 22 yr old he destroyed some sides - breathtaking at times and gave us so much momentum and ‘sting’ (In fairness Grealish gives us more momentum and a sting too) . He also had a change of pace / burst of acceleration , and strength which allowed him to burst last 2 or 3 opponents at a time
 

I was also lucky enough to see Gascoigne on the training pitch at Italia 90 , a number of times ,and he was extraordinary , plus had the incredible personality to add a real X factor 

The Post Injury Gazza was never quite the same but could still boss a game and add some sparkle
 

I can see the reason for the comparison with Gazza as they bring similar qualities , but Gazza for me 

What similar qualities 

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3 goals in 5 games in this Group and 2 were Penalties.
Sorry, that's a shocker with the attacking players we have in our ranks and should be questioned. If we go into the Euros like this, we will be embarassed, yet again.

His system does. not. work and I have been Southgate out for over a year now.

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He needs to go back to basics.  Identify the players and system he wants to use and start from there.  Appreciate you get injuries and stuff, but that’s why you have a squad, and a whole country to then pick from.

I agree, but he's been unlucky with defenders. I think I said it previously he has a system, but the best players (on paper) dont fit that system. So either the system needs to adapt, or we have to accept we wont see our "best 11" players.

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I think a lot of fans would like to see him pick a very exciting team like this. Whether it would work or not is debatable. I think what is frustrating is that we will never see this team selected so will never know

                  Pope

Trent.  Gomez. Maguire. Chilwell
   
     Foden. Henderson Grealish

    Sterling   Kane   Rashford

 

 

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I've certainly been in a minority on this board regards Grealish.

I've always loved him and think he's a superb talent, and I'm glad he's starting to get a bit of recognition.

Lots of people don't like him because he's had a bit of a chequered history.
Lots of people don't like him because he plays for Villa.
Lots of people don't like him because they think he dives a lot.

I hope that people who watched that game closely last night who say he dives, can see how much of a kicking he usually gets, in particular last night from Alderweireld.  This is supposed to be one of the best defenders in the world, and he couldn't handle him and had to foul him almost every time he got close.
Grealish doesn't dive.  What he does is entice opponents in, and then has such a quick body shift, that the defender is late and makes contact.  Does he go down easy?  Yes, sometimes.  But what footballer doesn't these days!  But he generally takes quite a bit of punishment, and he gets up, gets on, and takes it again.  He's very resilient.

For those who criticise his output, or 'stats'.  His stats for Villa don't show the amount of assists you'd perhaps want.  But guess what.  He creates chances, loads of them.  The fact Villa haven't had the people to convert those chances is the problem, not Jacks' creativity.
Also, look a little further back.  Jack so so often plays the pass before the assist.  He may not have the assist record, but he has a brilliant 'assist the assist' record.
He draws opponents onto him, either by teasing them to come close, or by running at them.  he often attracts more than one player, meaning he's able to draw them in and then pop a pass away to a teammate in plenty of space, thus enabling that teammate to create a goal or chance.
He is so so good at this.  He may not be a huge scorer or assister, but he's a massive 'enabler'.  He drives his team forward and creates space for others by drawing opponents in and being a threat.

The amount of fouls he draws should be seen as a positive.  A couple of times last night, he shows for the ball from the defence, to enable them to play out under pressure, and if he's in his own half or half way line, he cleverly tempts the defender in and manages to draw a foul.  This relieves pressure for the defence, letting them pass the ball out into midfield, we win the free kick and are able to have a controlled possession.  In fact, he did this literally a minute before their first goal.  If that Dier (dire) pass is attempted into Grealish, we likely don't concede as he'd have likely won a free kick.

Similarly at the other end of the pitch.  Winning free kicks on the edge of the box.  How important are set pieces in international football?  Hugely so! To have someone who will win you so many free kicks (thus scoring opportunities, a free shot at goal) is massive in international football.

He's also excellent in tight spaces.  How many passes is he able to make in a congested box - essential for trying to break down those 'Iceland-type' defences.  

For me, he should have been in the England team for at least the last 2 years, maybe more.  Why it's taken Southgate so long I don't know.  The kid should have 40 caps by now.

I love the bloke and think he's the biggest talent we have in this country.  He also shouldn't be played on the left wing.  He had a lot more freedom in the 2nd half last night and he revelled in it.  He needs to start centrally, behind the strikers, allowing him to effect the game all over the pitch.  let him have 80, 90, 100 touches per game and he'll create numerous chances.  Sticking him on the wing, where he'll get 20 touches per half just restricts the most creative player in the country.
 

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6 minutes ago, Harry said:

I've certainly been in a minority on this board regards Grealish.

I've always loved him and think he's a superb talent, and I'm glad he's starting to get a bit of recognition.

Lots of people don't like him because he's had a bit of a chequered history.
Lots of people don't like him because he plays for Villa.
Lots of people don't like him because they think he dives a lot.

I hope that people who watched that game closely last night who say he dives, can see how much of a kicking he usually gets, in particular last night from Alderweireld.  This is supposed to be one of the best defenders in the world, and he couldn't handle him and had to foul him almost every time he got close.
Grealish doesn't dive.  What he does is entice opponents in, and then has such a quick body shift, that the defender is late and makes contact.  Does he go down easy?  Yes, sometimes.  But what footballer doesn't these days!  But he generally takes quite a bit of punishment, and he gets up, gets on, and takes it again.  He's very resilient.

For those who criticise his output, or 'stats'.  His stats for Villa don't show the amount of assists you'd perhaps want.  But guess what.  He creates chances, loads of them.  The fact Villa haven't had the people to convert those chances is the problem, not Jacks' creativity.
Also, look a little further back.  Jack so so often plays the pass before the assist.  He may not have the assist record, but he has a brilliant 'assist the assist' record.
He draws opponents onto him, either by teasing them to come close, or by running at them.  he often attracts more than one player, meaning he's able to draw them in and then pop a pass away to a teammate in plenty of space, thus enabling that teammate to create a goal or chance.
He is so so good at this.  He may not be a huge scorer or assister, but he's a massive 'enabler'.  He drives his team forward and creates space for others by drawing opponents in and being a threat.

The amount of fouls he draws should be seen as a positive.  A couple of times last night, he shows for the ball from the defence, to enable them to play out under pressure, and if he's in his own half or half way line, he cleverly tempts the defender in and manages to draw a foul.  This relieves pressure for the defence, letting them pass the ball out into midfield, we win the free kick and are able to have a controlled possession.  In fact, he did this literally a minute before their first goal.  If that Dier (dire) pass is attempted into Grealish, we likely don't concede as he'd have likely won a free kick.

Similarly at the other end of the pitch.  Winning free kicks on the edge of the box.  How important are set pieces in international football?  Hugely so! To have someone who will win you so many free kicks (thus scoring opportunities, a free shot at goal) is massive in international football.

He's also excellent in tight spaces.  How many passes is he able to make in a congested box - essential for trying to break down those 'Iceland-type' defences.  

For me, he should have been in the England team for at least the last 2 years, maybe more.  Why it's taken Southgate so long I don't know.  The kid should have 40 caps by now.

I love the bloke and think he's the biggest talent we have in this country.  He also shouldn't be played on the left wing.  He had a lot more freedom in the 2nd half last night and he revelled in it.  He needs to start centrally, behind the strikers, allowing him to effect the game all over the pitch.  let him have 80, 90, 100 touches per game and he'll create numerous chances.  Sticking him on the wing, where he'll get 20 touches per half just restricts the most creative player in the country.
 

So you're still a bit on the fence regarding Grealish then? 

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