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Callum O’dowda


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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Recovery- Any Action that ends a Possession of the opposition team (the last action of this possession is a Loss) and starts a Possession for current team.

loose ball - A duel for a loose ball, when no team has clear ball possession.

Yep, absolutely....see below ???

Worse, using my model....but Brunt is worse again!

85011550-D116-4180-ADF8-D1F1305D7515.thumb.jpeg.4e0a9a4f9dfc448b337d2fe07be315b0.jpeg

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/callum-odowda/profil/spieler/255679

Taaaa

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The stats that are most important, IMO, are:

Attack. Scoring goals. Creating goals

Defence & Midfield. Winning the ball within own penalty area. Winning the ball in own half.

Semenyo as an attacking player has six (I believe that is correct) assists and this is his first season as a regular starter.

Not got a clue how Callum would score these points but I get the impression that he always looks busy but actually creates or destroys very little. He probably has the pace and ability to be very effective at both ends but his continual turning back toward his own goal, indicates a lack of confidence in his ability.

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18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

People saying it's O'Dowda's job to score and assist. I'm not even sure it is in this current set up. Obviously we want all players to score or assist where possible, but his job is what he is currently doing most games I think. Of course he can and hopefully does improve in some areas, but he's giving the team what it needs imo.

It makes me think of the view some Liverpool fans seem to have had of Jordan Henderson over the years. Doesn't score or assist many and that's in a top top side with world class pace and movement ahead of him. He's not often the holding midfielder, assuming Fabinho plays, so surely he should be doing better. So what does he bring?

I expect Liverpool would have won the title under Rodgers if he hadnt missed some of those final games. The likes of Gerrard, Coutinho, Sterling, prime version Strurridge and Suarez (some list that) couldn't work together without that average Jordan Henderson who just runs around a lot!

He has been a vital part of that side.

That's just one example of a player who fans of a club might not notice what they bring to the side.

O'Dowda's work we benefit from as a team. I think as a team last night we created enough chances to maybe win the game, especially with those 2 at the end, one from an O'Dowda corner! He was a big part of that strong 2nd half performance.

First half we had one great chance and they had one great chance. I think maybe we tweaked things tactically at half time, we seemed more on the front foot 2nd half.

Even in that first half O'Dowda did a decent job I thought. We kept them away from our goal even though they had all the possession. That's not just the defence doing that.

Good Post

Glad there’s another looking more deeply Jon

And Dean Holden isn’t picking him because Callum bought him a Good Luck in your new job card is he

Using a LJ favourite I bet you he is a player DH ‘trusts’ , in terms of undertaking a role asked for him and being disciplined in that role

Hes not Messi or a ‘star’ in this team (Do we actually have any ? - Think that’s a good thing) but the blind criticism he gets on here verges on the ridiculous 

I think there’s a player with assets there and that he will get better and better if he has a sustained run in the side, I think he’s improved in the recent run alone

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3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

People saying it's O'Dowda's job to score and assist. I'm not even sure it is in this current set up. Obviously we want all players to score or assist where possible, but his job is what he is currently doing most games I think. Of course he can and hopefully does improve in some areas, but he's giving the team what it needs imo.

It makes me think of the view some Liverpool fans seem to have had of Jordan Henderson over the years. Doesn't score or assist many and that's in a top top side with world class pace and movement ahead of him. He's not often the holding midfielder, assuming Fabinho plays, so surely he should be doing better. So what does he bring?

I expect Liverpool would have won the title under Rodgers if he hadnt missed some of those final games. The likes of Gerrard, Coutinho, Sterling, prime version Strurridge and Suarez (some list that) couldn't work together without that average Jordan Henderson who just runs around a lot!

He has been a vital part of that side.

That's just one example of a player who fans of a club might not notice what they bring to the side.

O'Dowda's work we benefit from as a team. I think as a team last night we created enough chances to maybe win the game, especially with those 2 at the end, one from an O'Dowda corner! He was a big part of that strong 2nd half performance.

First half we had one great chance and they had one great chance. I think maybe we tweaked things tactically at half time, we seemed more on the front foot 2nd half.

Even in that first half O'Dowda did a decent job I thought. We kept them away from our goal even though they had all the possession. That's not just the defence doing that.

I was about to post something similar. The point is that in this current squad we aren't blessed with "match winners" possibly the closest to that title would be an in form Paterson or Wells, so it has to be much more of a team effort. O'Dowda has been part of the group that has picked up 10 points from last 12 and we couldn't have done that with any passengers.

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26 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I was about to post something similar. The point is that in this current squad we aren't blessed with "match winners" possibly the closest to that title would be an in form Paterson or Wells, so it has to be much more of a team effort. O'Dowda has been part of the group that has picked up 10 points from last 12

Why are you using 10 from 12 instead of 12 from 24?

and we couldn't have done that with any passengers.

Why couldn't we have achieved that with "passengers" or more accurately players not performing? Is your argument that a player can't perform badly in a win because I think that's flat out wrong.

So this is a major flaw in your reasoning, the need to cherry pick stats and ignore the more complete set of data. This is a big problem with your logic which is consistently awful.

You're trying to use results based analysis only, and if you look at result based analysis only we've achieved worse results with O'Dowda on the pitch compared to when we play with him not being on the pitch. It's not good data, which I point out, but it's factual, inarguable. and because it's more complete, while it's still bad, it's BETTER than your data, which uses the same logic but a smaller cherry picked sample size.

I think O'Dowda's been as good as he has ever been recently, but you don't need to manipulate statistics to say that like you're doing.

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18 minutes ago, Prinny said:

 

So this is a major flaw in your reasoning, the need to cherry pick stats and ignore the more complete set of data. This is a big problem with your logic which is consistently awful.

You're trying to use results based analysis only, and if you look at result based analysis only we've achieved worse results with O'Dowda on the pitch compared to when we play with him not being on the pitch. It's not good data, which I point out, but it's factual, inarguable. and because it's more complete, while it's still bad, it's BETTER than your data, which uses the same logic but a smaller cherry picked sample size.

I think O'Dowda's been as good as he has ever been recently, but you don't need to manipulate statistics to say that like you're doing.

Of course I can pick those results, we are all agreed he is playing better and as he has improved so have our results, no? :) 

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4 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

And Dean Holden isn’t picking him because Callum bought him a Good Luck in your new job card is he

He's picking him because he really likes the "6" and two "8's" system in midfield. also because Weimann and Williams and Walsh are all injured. While O'Dowda has performed well IMO, we don't know where he is in the pecking order once everyone is available yet.

Using a LJ favourite I bet you he is a player DH ‘trusts’ , in terms of undertaking a role asked for him and being disciplined in that role

Hes not Messi or a ‘star’ in this team (Do we actually have any ? - Think that’s a good thing) but the blind criticism he gets on here verges on the ridiculous

It's ironic you're talking to @JonDolman whose blind praise of him is also ridiculous at times. See above with the stats argument he tries to make. But yeah there are people who go way over the top with their hatred of certain players.

I think there’s a player with assets there and that he will get better and better if he has a sustained run in the side, I think he’s improved in the recent run alone

He definitely has good assets. I think he's improved, but is close to his his potential, because his flaws aren't the type of flaws that usually get better at 25. I think this is the perfect role for him, and it's credit to Holden for using him in it, and to O'Dowda for taking his BEST chance IMO to succeed here.

It'd be great if he could improve his decision making, and that final ball, or his shooting, any of them! We'd really have a player then. Hope he does, because this run of games where he basically a spot in the team until at least the new year is a massive opportunity for him personally to get better.

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Weimann away a long time, dont know how Walsh and William plays. At this moment we only have COD to play. For me he is not good enough, nothing seldom happens when he gets the ball. No goals, no assists, no end product. He is in our team and we are doing well and that is the mainthing. Really wants him to score or assist that would help his confidence. Dont know how many games his played without scoring or having an assist. Dont think he is good in defensive either. Ok he is fast and can move the ball forward but thats it. He seems to be a nice guy and I hope he can add more to the team then he showed so far, he have been in City for a while. Lets score next game COD! COYR!!!

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14 hours ago, JonDolman said:

People saying it's O'Dowda's job to score and assist. I'm not even sure it is in this current set up. Obviously we want all players to score or assist where possible, but his job is what he is currently doing most games I think. Of course he can and hopefully does improve in some areas, but he's giving the team what it needs imo.

It makes me think of the view some Liverpool fans seem to have had of Jordan Henderson over the years. Doesn't score or assist many and that's in a top top side with world class pace and movement ahead of him. He's not often the holding midfielder, assuming Fabinho plays, so surely he should be doing better. So what does he bring?

I expect Liverpool would have won the title under Rodgers if he hadnt missed some of those final games. The likes of Gerrard, Coutinho, Sterling, prime version Strurridge and Suarez (some list that) couldn't work together without that average Jordan Henderson who just runs around a lot!

He has been a vital part of that side.

That's just one example of a player who fans of a club might not notice what they bring to the side.

O'Dowda's work we benefit from as a team. I think as a team last night we created enough chances to maybe win the game, especially with those 2 at the end, one from an O'Dowda corner! He was a big part of that strong 2nd half performance.

First half we had one great chance and they had one great chance. I think maybe we tweaked things tactically at half time, we seemed more on the front foot 2nd half.

Even in that first half O'Dowda did a decent job I thought. We kept them away from our goal even though they had all the possession. That's not just the defence doing that.

I think that's a slightly rose tinted view. I agree that O'Dowda did a good job against Watford in the circumstances but longer term he still needs to give us a bit more. If you asked Callum himself what his strengths are he wouldn't tell you he was some Cole Skuse type player that is in the side to do all the dirty tactical and defensive work the fans don't notice. He would expect some goals and assists BY HIS OWN STANDARDS even when playing in a more defensive position than his preferred role and, as yet, it's not happening for him in that respect.

As an example every fan who watches us can tell you why Jamie Paterson is in the side and exactly what he brings whether they think he should be playing or not. When you cannot quite put your finger on what a player is bringing to the party and brush it off as "unseen work the fans aren't noticing" that says to me that said player has to work harder to bring a little bit more.

If you asked Dean Holden what his preferred way of playing is I would be prepared to bet that it wouldn't involve being pragmatic in the extreme, 34% possession first half, deliberately set up as the away side at home and keep it tight for 45 minutes then reassess. He's playing that way out of necessity with the personnel available not because he WANTS TO. To get us up to 3rd in the table with that midfield set up is nothing short of remarkable from both players themselves and management in my view and whilst not proclaiming Dean as the next Pep, far from it, I'm not sure many managers in this league (Colin being the one stand-out and obvious pragmatist who could) would replicate that.

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1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

I think that's a slightly rose tinted view. I agree that O'Dowda did a good job against Watford in the circumstances but longer term he still needs to give us a bit more. If you asked Callum himself what his strengths are he wouldn't tell you he was some Cole Skuse type player that is in the side to do all the dirty tactical and defensive work the fans don't notice. He would expect some goals and assists BY HIS OWN STANDARDS even when playing in a more defensive position than his preferred role and, as yet, it's not happening for him in that respect.

As an example every fan who watches us can tell you why Jamie Paterson is in the side and exactly what he brings whether they think he should be playing or not. When you cannot quite put your finger on what a player is bringing to the party and brush it off as "unseen work the fans aren't noticing" that says to me that said player has to work harder to bring a little bit more.

If you asked Dean Holden what his preferred way of playing is I would be prepared to bet that it wouldn't involve being pragmatic in the extreme, 34% possession first half, deliberately set up as the away side at home and keep it tight for 45 minutes then reassess. He's playing that way out of necessity with the personnel available not because he WANTS TO. To get us up to 3rd in the table with that midfield set up is nothing short of remarkable from both players themselves and management in my view and whilst not proclaiming Dean as the next Pep, far from it, I'm not sure many managers in this league (Colin being the one stand-out and obvious pragmatist who could) would replicate that.

I think that’s a good point.  Han-Noah for example could be seen as a player who can bring energy to the midfield, do good defensive work on and off the ball, but people will point to his lack of goals and assists even though he was playing a much more restricted role that Callum.  So I think Callum does need to add more end product.  If that’s just from set-pieces (he took some corners on Wednesday) initially fine, but he is being given the license to break forward and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect the odd goal, assist or hockey-assist over a period of games.  In Weimann’s 13 games in the Holden-specified role he got 2 goals, 4 assists, 1 second assist....whilst carrying out similar (some differences) defensive duties.  That’s the kind of output he should be aiming for.  I very much suspect both Callum and Holden see that as an area to develop too.  I accept we’ve set up a tad differently in the past few games but I think it’s the with-ball stuff that needs a bit of polish.  Especially in transition or when breaking the lines.  As pros his teammates will understand when we transitioning and players will commit to supporting him.  It is then frustrating when they give the ball away and the opposition transition back on us...when we are in poor shape.  That situation where he won a great tackle, strode 10 yards with the ball and then gave it away left us very exposed.  We need to take better care of the ball.  It’s something Brownhill improved on massively over his time here.

From Callum’s point of view, is he looking over his shoulder at the returns of Bakinson (soon hopefully), Williams and Walsh and thinking “which midfielder(s) miss out when they come back”, because if he thinks it might be him, he’s got to try to have something in his locker the others haven’t.  End product might be that differentiator.  It’s what Pato adds and keeps him as a regular starter.  Does Callum want to go back to just being in the 18.  He’s got a marvellous opportunity at the mo with injuries.  I think most of us in this thread think he’s improved from last season, but at 25 where does the next development spurt come from, if at all?  Let’s hope he is gaining in confidence from a run in the side and that end product comes as a result....and that he’s just building up to it.  I remember his first goal for us felt like a big constipation relief...and he went on to have his best spell in a City shirt....but that’s 3 years ago.

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2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

If you asked Dean Holden what his preferred way of playing is I would be prepared to bet that it wouldn't involve being pragmatic in the extreme, 34% possession first half, deliberately set up as the away side at home and keep it tight for 45 minutes then reassess. He's playing that way out of necessity with the personnel available not because he WANTS TO. To get us up to 3rd in the table with that midfield set up is nothing short of remarkable from both players themselves and management in my view and whilst not proclaiming Dean as the next Pep, far from it, I'm not sure many managers in this league (Colin being the one stand-out and obvious pragmatist who could) would replicate that.

Agree with every word of that paragraph. Absolutely spot-on analysis of Holden’s current approach and the reasons for it. He deserves all the credit he gets. What remains to be seen is what he can produce if and when he ever has something approaching a fully fit squad to choose from.

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2 hours ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Watford was O'Dowda's best game for us for a long time but that's not really saying much unfortunately.

He is improving and I hope he continues to do so but having been at City for 4 years I wonder whether any other player would have been given this amount of time to prove himself?

Any response to this that mentions a certain Bobby Reid is probably missing the point ?

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Holden deserves big credit for the improvement shown by certain individuals. 

The likes of O'Dowda, Nagy, Semenyo, Vyner, Bakinson all look much better than they previously showed under LJ. Granted Bakinson and Vyner have made a breakthrough this season.  

Players now look settled in specific positions instead of being shifted around all the time. 

I still don't believe the likes of O'Dowda will be guaranteed starters in a fully fit squad. However, he deserves praise for covering during a time where we have mass injuries within the squad and we are grinding out results, something which has previously derailed our season. 

The biggest change in O'Dowda's game in recent weeks is he doesn't seem to be dribbling in circles anymore. He is much more aware of the time he has on the ball and the correct time to release. Also looks to have bulked up abit and looks more physical in the challenge. 

Good progress in recent weeks. 

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At this moment in time, with the injuries we have, COD’s doing a job.

If we ever have a fully-fit squad to choose from, I think he only gets near the starting XI in a 4-3-3 and even then I’d rather see Semenyo on the left of the front three.

Can genuinely anyone tell me what’s COD’s best position any more? Because he looks like a jack of all trades, master of none. Useful but not indispensable. 

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