Zlatan Ibravimovic Likeness dispute.

[Atticus]

15 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

We can all be footballers? Don’t think we can. Why aren’t you one? Let me guess, you just decided against it but were of course good enough!

The game prides itself on the realism of players faces and techniques. Ie how they kick the ball and running style.  They should pay for that privilege as they use it to sell the game 

My point being. Is that if all "elite footballers" ****** off, then they can and will be replaced. Maybe at not the same standard. But we will always have footballers. 

[ExiledAjax]

39 minutes ago, Atticus said:

That sounds like total nonsense to me. That is scary if that is true.

What next? I guess I can market the way I walk.....If anyone dares to walk with one foot after the other I should be paid tbh. 

Unlikely as simply walking isn't unique to you and when you walk to the shops you are not 'performing'. However, say John Cleese wanted to protect his walk from the ministry of silly walks - he probably could. As I said, I know enough to be dangerous in this area, but I am far from an expert.

IP law and the systems of licensing, owning and using a person's image and performances are an absolute minefield and even those who have practiced as specialist IP lawyers for decades would struggle to explain it all. As people have said this seems like a speculative attempt from Zlatan/his agent/his lawyers to try and cream a bit more money off the top of the football world. It might fly, it might not, ultimately somewhere someone will need to stump up the cash to get into a legal dispute if they want to set a precedent and make a change.

[Atticus]

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

It’s not so much data accuracy. It’s use of name 

Indeed. This is why this is so worrying. And why I hope EA wins. 

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, Atticus said:

My point being. Is that if all "elite footballers" ****** off, then they can and will be replaced. Maybe at not the same standard. But we will always have footballers. 

Not sure what relevance that is to this debate. New footballers will come in and want to be paid for their images and names being used for profits as well

 

 

[Atticus]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Unlikely as simply walking isn't unique to you and when you walk to the shops you are not 'performing'. However, say John Cleese wanted to protect his walk from the ministry of silly walks - he probably could. As I said, I know enough to be dangerous in this area, but I am far from an expert.

IP law and the systems of licensing, owning and using a person's image and performances are an absolute minefield and even those who have practiced as specialist IP lawyers for decades would struggle to explain it all. As people have said this seems like a speculative attempt from Zlatan/his agent/his lawyers to try and cream a bit more money off the top of the football world. It might fly, it might not, ultimately somewhere someone will need to stump up the cash to get into a legal dispute if they want to set a precedent and make a change.

Well, I suppose the positive is. EA have a fair bit more money then Zlatan. 

[BanburyRed]

First world problems 

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Atticus said:

Well, I suppose the positive is. EA have a fair bit more money then Zlatan. 

Probably. 

FWIW I would be surprised if an English court allowed raw data such as the number of shots a player took in a match to be protected as part of the 'performance' of that player. It's a raw matter of fact, and in some ways a matter of public record, and there's little to distinguish a shot by player A in match B from one by player Z in match Y. Lawyers might argue it but I'd be surprised if they won.

As for Zlatan's particular complaint. I doubt he's got a leg to stand on whilst he's contracted to a club. As I understand it - so far as it relates to things like FIFA and PES - the player grants the club the right to license their image to the league who then license it on to FIFA/FIFPro who then license it to EA/Konami etc. Money then flows back down the other way. It's why old PES never had the proper teams or players - EA had an exclusive agreement with FIFA to use the rights. It's also why players would disappear form FIFA once they retired - and it's why Becks has been paid a bucketload for 3 years of his rights. He is in a position to negotiate as a 'solo artist' as it were, whereas Zlatan is currently subject to the collective agreement in place.

[IAmNick]

5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

As for Zlatan's particular complaint. I doubt he's got a leg to stand on whilst he's contracted to a club. As I understand it - so far as it relates to things like FIFA and PES - the player grants the club the right to license their image to the league who then license it on to FIFA/FIFPro who then license it to EA/Konami etc. Money then flows back down the other way. It's why old PES never had the proper teams or players - EA had an exclusive agreement with FIFA to use the rights. It's also why players would disappear form FIFA once they retired - and it's why Becks has been paid a bucketload for 3 years of his rights. He is in a position to negotiate as a 'solo artist' as it were, whereas Zlatan is currently subject to the collective agreement in place.

Yeah I think so. My mostly uninformed impression is that he would have come to an agreement of his image rights as part of his club contract. The game contains him as a footballer playing for his club, so my guess is that the club would almost certainly own those rights.

If it was him in a shaving advert or driving a sports car he'd likely own the image rights, as they're separate. So if you made "Zlatan driving simulator 2020" the club wouldn't be able to license him there and he would have a point.

I'm pretty sure if he wanted his image rights that would have been reflected in his package when he signed for the club, as that's a very valuable asset (and maybe more valuable than the player himself in some ways!)

[Smokey]

Didn't this happen before with the De Boer brothers on an older version of Pro Evo and then the Netherlands team?

[Robin101]

I'd never really considered it before but I suppose he has a point actually. I'd say the main reason I buy Fifa and not PES is the 'authenticity' I guess. That makes EA millions of pounds, but the players get none of that. Strangely thought-provoking. 

[Atticus]

16 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Probably. 

FWIW I would be surprised if an English court allowed raw data such as the number of shots a player took in a match to be protected as part of the 'performance' of that player. It's a raw matter of fact, and in some ways a matter of public record, and there's little to distinguish a shot by player A in match B from one by player Z in match Y. Lawyers might argue it but I'd be surprised if they won.

As for Zlatan's particular complaint. I doubt he's got a leg to stand on whilst he's contracted to a club. As I understand it - so far as it relates to things like FIFA and PES - the player grants the club the right to license their image to the league who then license it on to FIFA/FIFPro who then license it to EA/Konami etc. Money then flows back down the other way. It's why old PES never had the proper teams or players - EA had an exclusive agreement with FIFA to use the rights. It's also why players would disappear form FIFA once they retired - and it's why Becks has been paid a bucketload for 3 years of his rights. He is in a position to negotiate as a 'solo artist' as it were, whereas Zlatan is currently subject to the collective agreement in place.

I would be astonished if any court allowed data to be protected. That to me is quite frankly ludicrous. 

In terms of Zlatan. Im not sure then what he is playing at. Its also the case that he's likeness, and that of Bale's etc have been used for years now without any type of complaint. In fact, in there acknowledgment. 

[Harry]

14 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

I'd never really considered it before but I suppose he has a point actually. I'd say the main reason I buy Fifa and not PES is the 'authenticity' I guess. That makes EA millions of pounds, but the players get none of that. Strangely thought-provoking. 

Should politicians and celebrities get paid for their appearances on Spitting Image? 

[Sheltons Army]

‘Dear Zlatan,

We have received the letters from your agent and solicitors regarding your image rights and claim

We have considered the matter carefully , and concluded , that to save any further disagreement or dispute , and due to the fact you are both , somewhat irrelevant now , hawking your ponytail from the US back to Italy , and the fact that you are a money grabbing **** , we have removed any trace of you from our database and any current or future software

You no longer exist

May we wish you good luck in retirement

EA Sports’

[Atticus]

27 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

I'd never really considered it before but I suppose he has a point actually. I'd say the main reason I buy Fifa and not PES is the 'authenticity' I guess. That makes EA millions of pounds, but the players get none of that. Strangely thought-provoking. 

But then the players are well compensated by their clubs no?

[Atticus]

1 minute ago, Atticus said:

But then the players are well compensated by their clubs no?

I mean I dunno. The system as is completely stifles innovation. But this, literally is trying to destroy it. 

[Atticus]

for more context, here is Bale agreeing. 

 

And his pic 6 years earlier on the cover.

 

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, Atticus said:

But then the players are well compensated by their clubs no?

All Football is governed by FIFA

Zlatan wouldn’t exist as a professional Footballer and have earnt what he has if he didn’t play football and take part  in FIFA governed competitions.

FIFA have a contract for themselves and their members with EA Sports 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

Does it really matter if the players "look" like someone? Or have actual footballers names? If the game is playable surely that;s all that matters? 

Seems equally babyish to me to worry about it! 

We are going to end up with a game full of Gas wannabes.

Players who look like but aren’t quite who they represent with names like Gary Bale and Leonard Messi. 
 

It’s all a joke. 

[Harry]

 

[sephjnr]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Naah, I can live without a bitchfest between marks who make money off others' efforts.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

 

Heard the full clash live - it was excellent

Dont always agree but I really like Simon Jordan , doesn’t shy away

 

 

 

Meanwhile

 

Dear Zlatan

Thankyou for the communication and letter regarding your image rights from you agent Mr Raiola

We have added your concerns to our list , along with Mr Klopps complaints about player fatigue

We hope to get back to you around 2028

Kind Regards

FIFA

 

[AppyDAZE]

Raymond & Maria Ingen?

They're only the band ABBA could have been.

[Atticus]

32 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Literally says it all doesnt it.

 

******* embarrassing, and shame on both Zlatan and Bale for pursuing this. I hope and assume they will not have a pot to piss in. 

I genuinely hope EA actually remove there likeness. I doubt it, but I would love it if they do. 

[Atticus]

37 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Interestingly, id never heard of the guy before today. Yet his name was all over reddit now. 

[JamesBCFC]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

Should politicians and celebrities get paid for their appearances on Spitting Image? 

Not a valid retort because that is a different scenario. 

Pretty sure that would come under the case of fair use as a parody show

 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Atticus said:

Literally says it all doesnt it.

 

******* embarrassing, and shame on both Zlatan and Bale for pursuing this. I hope and assume they will not have a pot to piss in. 

I genuinely hope EA actually remove there likeness. I doubt it, but I would love it if they do. 

Disagree. 

They should make them into more of a caricature. 

Make Bale look even more like a monkey and increase the size of Zlatans nose, make his pony tail go down to the floor.

 

Certainly for Film and TV parody is fair use, and video games are just another part of the entertainment industry. 

Caricature these players, people will still know who they are, and their likeness is still in the game without image rights being relevant, further boiling their piss.

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Atticus said:

Interestingly, id never heard of the guy before today. Yet his name was all over reddit now. 

You’d never heard of Mino Raiola ?!

[Atticus]

8 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

You’d never heard of Mino Raiola ?!

No. Should I have heard of a greedy agent?

[Harry]

32 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Not a valid retort because that is a different scenario. 

Pretty sure that would come under the case of fair use as a parody show

 

Ok, no probs. I’ll try again. 
Should JamesBCFC receive royalties for this series :

p.s.  only joking lad

[And Its Smith]

14 minutes ago, Atticus said:

No. Should I have heard of a greedy agent?

Well he’s very famous