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Reading – Sat 28th November 12:30 – What Can We Expect?


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1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

I don't really get this piecemeal side argument. We put out a strong squad today

Our 3 man central defence featured 2 young defenders who have not been Championship regulars before this season plus a 32 year old who has played as a winger, central midfielder or wing back throughout his career filling in at centre-back. And, strong side or not, it is still a side with 8 players missing, at least 4 of which would surely be starting if fit. What's more, most of those players are playing an early kick off in their third game in a week. I just don't see how that can be dismissed as a factor. 

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35 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

And that is very worrying. Had we rotated a couple today, it could have made it easier to do the same Tuesday. As it is Nagy must need a rest, Brunt anyone? Paterson and Vyner have played every game, COD has played a lot including Internationals and Hunt is our only RB . Instead of having a couple of those returning after a rest , some will have to play another 90 Tuesday. Can't rotate JD as the alternative has also played all of the last 2 games. 
 

With the heavy schedule throughout the Championship..........it is a dilemma most teams are facing.  A lot of squads are becoming very stretched, so we are definitely not alone in dealing with this problem.   It will be survival of the fittest, and also the luckiest with injuries?    

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14 minutes ago, chinapig said:

He is a pragmatist so I suspect he decided we have more chance of getting points against QPR so he kept Martin and Wells on the bench.

We may see them, Bakinson and Kalas start against QPR.

I said similar before the game, but , Nagy, COD, Hunt, Paterson & JD have all played a lot. I'd expect Kalas to come back in, but is Bakinson ready? I would have thought he would have come on if Nagy was done. Only Kalas gives us a chance to rest someone, ( probably Rowe ) unless we go 4-3-3 and then TM or Vyner too. He may well have thought today was the tougher game and stick with the side, with out squad I think that was short sighted. Not sure Bakinson was ready, surely he would have come on today if he was, who knows.
Now we will have to make changes Tuesday, QPR can be good, have players that can hurt you like Reading today. Personally, I think we need to play one of COD or Paterson, not both. Bakinson & Massengo (though he looked like someone who hadn't played for months today), or Brunt & Bakinson. 

It's been a very difficult start for Holden, not sure he helps himself at times.

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1 hour ago, lenred said:

I hope you are right mate. Because win lose or draw Im just not enjoying watching it at the moment. But I do get that you have to work with what you have and he’s done well to get us where we are currently.  

Yeah - bar a 5 minute spell today, we've been dreadful to watch since the international break without doubt. I just think it can't be separated from a need to protect a defence that risks being massively exposed by missing players. If we had Mawson or Kalas fit I feel it would make a massive difference. We could look at playing 4-3-3 without worrying about the defence being exposed and the midfield and wing backs would have more freedom to get forward. 

I do get your point completely though. Performances like our last three can be just about justified when we scrape a win or even when we draw against a recently promoted side but, when it goes wrong as it is today, you just end up with a terrible performance and abysmal result. 

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9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Yeah - bar a 5 minute spell today, we've been dreadful to watch since the international break without doubt. I just think it can't be separated from a need to protect a defence that risks being massively exposed by missing players. If we had Mawson or Kalas fit I feel it would make a massive difference. We could look at playing 4-3-3 without worrying about the defence being exposed and the midfield and wing backs would have more freedom to get forward. 

I do get your point completely though. Performances like our last three can be just about justified when we scrape a win or even when we draw against a recently promoted side but, when it goes wrong as it is today, you just end up with a terrible performance and abysmal result. 

Agreed and I’m sure when Holden has the personnel available and match ready we’ll see a different starting 11 and style of play. Our side is full of players doing a job rather than being able to make a difference. Stick Kalas, Mawson, Bakinson and one of the unfit midfielders in there and it looks a bit different. Unfortunately we are a couple of months away from that and perhaps adding in January but if we can pick up enough points to stay in touch who knows what might happen after Christmas? Hunt is another one who is due a rest but who do we put there with Sessegnon injured?

Edited by Numero Uno
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15 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Our 3 man central defence featured 2 young defenders who have not been Championship regulars before this season plus a 32 year old who has played as a winger, central midfielder or wing back throughout his career filling in at centre-back. And, strong side or not, it is still a side with 8 players missing, at least 4 of which would surely be starting if fit. What's more, most of those players are playing an early kick off in their third game in a week. I just don't see how that can be dismissed as a factor. 

Reading played Wednesday as well, but they didn’t look leggy. 

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1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

You are talking shit because you are frustrated. No point discussing it as it’s so stupid. Enjoy your day👍.

I have stated my opinion, Vyner looks good with experience beside him but not as good when there is no experience there.

Last season we ended up playing him RB because we had better cb. If Kalas, Manson and Baker were fit he wouldn’t be playing the same with Moore. The 2 of them on there own are not good enough for the Championship in a back 4. 
You could also say losing Nagy didn’t help them for he covers the back line.

 

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1 minute ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

I have stated my opinion, Vyner looks good with experience beside him but not as good when there is no experience there.

Last season we ended up playing him RB because we had better cb. If Kalas, Manson and Baker were fit he wouldn’t be playing the same with Moore. The 2 of them on there own are not good enough for the Championship in a back 4. 
You could also say losing Nagy didn’t help them for he covers the back line.

 

Of course, experience is great to push younger lads through. Vyner is still young for his position and learning and improving all the time. He has played well recently including in the week with no experience alongside him but was off it today. That doesn’t make him “nowhere near good enough”. He will still have bad games until he gets another 30 games AT THIS LEVEL under his belt. As I have said before Moore is the one that worries me as the learning seems to be painfully slow.

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1 hour ago, Magger1 said:

Injures no excuse if other players not good enough why we paying their wages **** em out , lack of fight and passion playing against a team who are 90th on current form in whole football league , players need a rocket up their asses and should fell embarrassed to pick up wages on that performance,I can’t say anymore because I’ll get banned , a chance to put us firmly in play off position wasted by wasters 

Can we add a 🤡 emoji for people like this please. 

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Just now, Numero Uno said:

Of course, experience is great to push younger lads through. Vyner is still young for his position and learning and improving all the time. He has played well recently including in the week with no experience alongside him but was off it today. That doesn’t make him “nowhere near good enough”. He will still have bad games until he gets another 30 games AT THIS LEVEL under his belt. As I have said before Moore is the one that worries me as the learning seems to be painfully slow.

He had Rowe beside him midweek, today we lose Rowe and they both look awful. They have both played many many games and aren’t young anymore, think they are both 22,23 years old that’s isn’t young now. 

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Just now, wayne allisons tongues said:

He had Rowe beside him midweek, today we lose Rowe and they both look awful. They have both played many many games and aren’t young anymore, think they are both 22,23 years old that’s isn’t young now. 

It is for a Centre Half and Goalkeeper. It’s a fact that they generally take longer to mature than other positions. You can’t ignore three good games because a young player has had one bad one.

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3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Of course, experience is great to push younger lads through. Vyner is still young for his position and learning and improving all the time. He has played well recently including in the week with no experience alongside him but was off it today. That doesn’t make him “nowhere near good enough”. He will still have bad games until he gets another 30 games AT THIS LEVEL under his belt. As I have said before Moore is the one that worries me as the learning seems to be painfully slow.

Good post - Agree 

Taylor Moore has a fair bit of League experience now , albeit at various levels

Fantastic lad .......but.......not sure he can find that extra level jump with any consistency ..... he seems to have stalled a bit and looks raw in moments on a fairly regular basis 

He’s intelligent enough and the attitude to still kick on , and I really hope he does , but my hunch is he may struggle long term at this level

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3 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

He had Rowe beside him midweek, today we lose Rowe and they both look awful. They have both played many many games and aren’t young anymore, think they are both 22,23 years old that’s isn’t young now. 

Centre halves don’t reach their peak until they are much older, you’d argue that they have another 4 or 5 years before they could be considered to be at peak age for that position. I accept they are not as effective as a pairing, they do need some experience around them, but you can’t write them off totally especially Vyner. Given him another couple years of experience and he’ll be a class act

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Beaten by a much better team on the day.

Are Reading really that good, or did we make them look better than they are?

Bentley done well. Vyner put in the effort, as did Nagy

Moore was poor and lucky not to get a red.

DaSilva had one of his worst games.

Massengo was a slug, but marginally faster than Brunt, who looks slower every time he plays (Holden should have kept Morrell).

Unlike us, Reading had two creative players and strikers who shot or tried to shoot whenever possible.

In the first half, the commentator said it was like a game of chess. The epitome of boring. "Holden plays knight to king's bishop 3 and Paunovic counters with rook to king 4"

We need to do a lot better against QPR. 

Checkmate !

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Good post - Agree 

Taylor Moore has a fair bit of League experience now , albeit at various levels

Fantastic lad .......but.......not sure he can find that extra level jump with any consistency ..... he seems to have stalled a bit and looks raw in moments on a fairly regular basis 

He’s intelligent enough and the attitude to still kick on , and I really hope he does , but my hunch is he may struggle long term at this level

Can I just add that Moore brought the ball into midfield a few times today as a positive, a couple of really good covers round the back of Vyner too.  Of course there was the touch of a skip driver that should’ve been a red card imho.  It’s those little lapses that will hold him back unless he reduces them.  

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3 hours ago, bexhill reds said:

No shame in getting outclassed by that team. They’ve built a very good squad there. Sometimes the facts don’t suit negative agendas

I don't disagree. They are evolving into a really good team on the pitch. Amazing what can happen when you bring in a new coach with a fresh approach 

I think I need to explain my frustrations are not at Holden. As I've said before...I disliked Johnson and never hid that fact . I like Holden but the reality is the football, our style, and our performances are exactly the same as the previous couple of seasons. Even with a fully fit squad, do you see our style being any different?

Individual players are not, and will not, improve under Holden . That may sound extremely harsh....but i believe come March time, we will be in the exact same position as we always find ourselves in, dropping down the table and heading towards midtable mediocrity ....again 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

You tell me :dunno:

Frustrating isn’t it.

When people were talking Leeds up for 2 years, they were acting like it was expected because they were a ‘big club’ yet in truth they had been out of the top flight for 16 years, in div 3 for a few of those and didn’t have a pot to piss in for the rest.

So how did they do it?

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2 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

I don't disagree. They are evolving into a really good team on the pitch. Amazing what can happen when you bring in a new coach with a fresh approach 

I think I need to explain my frustrations are not at Holden. As I've said before...I disliked Johnson and never hid that fact . I like Holden but the reality is the football, our style, and our performances are exactly the same as the previous couple of seasons. Even with a fully fit squad, do you see our style being any different?

Individual players are not, and will not, improve under Holden . That may sound extremely harsh....but i believe come March time, we will be in the exact same position as we always find ourselves in, dropping down the table and heading towards midtable mediocrity ....again 

 

 

 

I think you have to take into account the injuries we have and the options available. The creativity to help our front line comes from midfield, how many options does he have at present to switch it about, if Pato is not playing well then as a creative force we are limited, Walsh may not be the messiah when he comes back but he’s an alternative. Bakinson could have been an option today, but we don’t know how fit he is following his Covid bout.

As for players improving we’ve got 2 England youth coaches in our set up, I’d argue that those who want to and are capable of improving will.

Top 2 team, unlikely. Challenging for top 6, certainly achievable. Top 10 finish, definitely. 

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2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Good post - Agree 

Taylor Moore has a fair bit of League experience now , albeit at various levels

Fantastic lad .......but.......not sure he can find that extra level jump with any consistency ..... he seems to have stalled a bit and looks raw in moments on a fairly regular basis 

He’s intelligent enough and the attitude to still kick on , and I really hope he does , but my hunch is he may struggle long term at this level

Bottom line for Moore is that he has some great moments in games but all the good things a central defender does count for nothing if they can't concentrate for 90 minutes straight. It's the odd moments and lapses that let him down but he plays in a position where you just can't get away with having two or three lapses of concentration every game. If he can cut those out, he'd be a fantastic player. But it's a recurring enough pattern for it to be a reasonable question as to whether he will every manage to do that. 

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