Worrying stat?

[Alessandro]

Yet to beat anyone in the top 8.

Only one win against the current top 10.

Not promising for our playoff aspirations.

[cidercity1987]

No different to last season, or probably the season before. Good job we have already played all of the top eight though, our play off aspirations rely on being better than the mid table teams we have to come

[Bassomylord]

Same every year.

[Midred]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

No different to last season, or probably the season before. Good job we have already played all of the top eight though, our play off aspirations rely on being better than the mid table teams we have to come

Brentford? 

[Mihai]

The game stats are even worse. 21 shots vs 4.

[tin]

5 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Yet to beat anyone in the top 8.

Only one win against the current top 10.

Not promising for our playoff aspirations.

The gulf in quality between us, Norwich, Bournemouth and now Reading is enormous. If it wasn’t for Bentley today, we’d have been hammered. 

We will do very well to finish in the top 8, let alone the top 6. No excuses, just not good enough. 

[stephenkibby.]

2 minutes ago, tin said:

The gulf in quality between us, Norwich, Bournemouth and now Reading is enormous. If it wasn’t for Bentley today, we’d have been hammered. 

We will do very well to finish in the top 8, let alone the top 6. No excuses, just not good enough. 

And that's it, pointless being to pissed off as you say just not good enough.

We might get a Kalas back but that won't change the fact that we totally lack ball winners and ball players in midfield.

Pointless getting your hopes up about Williams and Walsh will they ever get fit, and when they do we have no ideal if they are good enough to take us forward.

[Alessandro]

6 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

And that's it, pointless being to pissed off as you say just not good enough.

We might get a Kalas back but that won't change the fact that we totally lack ball winners and ball players in midfield.

Pointless getting your hopes up about Williams and Walsh will they ever get fit, and when they do we have no ideal if they are good enough to take us forward.

For me Kalas, Mawson and Williams will all improve us greatly. Add in Bakinson.

We need them back as soon as possible because if we can improve the spin of the team, it gives the foundation for the flair players to be at their best.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, tin said:

The gulf in quality between us, Norwich, Bournemouth and now Reading is enormous. If it wasn’t for Bentley today, we’d have been hammered. 

We will do very well to finish in the top 8, let alone the top 6. No excuses, just not good enough. 

There is a gulf between City and Norwich and Bournemouth, even Watford.

But there is little to choose between plenty of others too.  Reading played well second half, give them credit, but it’s one game and to say Reading are a gulf in class is a bit of an isolated reaction.  They have some good player though.

[Dullmoan Tone]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Reading played well second half, give them credit, but it’s one game and to say Reading are a gulf in class is a bit of an isolated reaction.

Perhaps it is more fair to say there was a gulf in class today - very sadly the score certainly flattered us.

They seemed able to step and and evolve through the game - we struggled to do this especially after levelling. Good teams need this attribute.

 

[Davefevs]

Just now, Dullmoan Tone said:

Perhaps it is more fair to say there was a gulf in class today - very sadly the score certainly flattered us.

They seemed able to step and and evolve through the game - we struggled to do this especially after levelling. Good teams need this attribute.

 

Yes, I can’t argue with that.....I just don’t get the usual OTIB reaction of we are sh1t, everyone else is brilliant when we lose.

[tin]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s one game and to say Reading are a gulf in class is a bit of an isolated reaction.  They have some good player though.

With respect, Dave, I disagree. It looked like men against boys today. We had no press, we were extremely slow to regain our shape after losing the ball, and carried no threat in the final third for most of the game. I saw similar patterns first half v Norwich, most of the game v Cardiff, 70 mins v Huddersfield, second half v AFCB, so I don’t think this can be called an isolated reaction. Today, it could and should’ve been 5 or 6. It would’ve been if it wasn’t for Bentley, who’s been our player of the season so far IMO. 

[Redtrojan]

I think what is particularly disappointing,is the fact that the vast majority of the teams in the league this year are bang average.

We have a great league position despite not playing particularly well.

This could be a fantastic opportunity to reach the promised land.

But we need to be so much more adventurous and aggressive in our play.I’m not sure we have the players to perhaps play that game ,hence what we do.

We all want the same thing,to be entertained and our team to be successful,what you see on these boards is a reaction to years of frustration and underachievement.

[weepywall]

Thought we were piss poor today, looked like a side way behind Reading in the league, I will take into account the injuries but I think Reading conceded 3 in their last 2 home games, 5 or 6-1 defeat and we couldn't have complained, very disappointing.

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, tin said:

With respect, Dave, I disagree. It looked like men against boys today. We had no press, we were extremely slow to regain our shape after losing the ball, and carried no threat in the final third for most of the game. I saw similar patterns first half v Norwich, most of the game v Cardiff, 70 mins v Huddersfield, second half v AFCB, so I don’t think this can be called an isolated reaction. Today, it could and should’ve been 5 or 6. It would’ve been if it wasn’t for Bentley, who’s been our player of the season so far IMO. 

I’m not saying that.  I’m saying that pre-game nobody is saying Reading are tonnes better than us, are a gulf in class apart from us, etc.  It’s a reaction to us generally being poor today and Reading being better....so for one match we are suddenly over-rating Reading.

I don’t disagree that there have been periods in recent games where we’ve struggled.

[tin]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not saying that.  I’m saying that pre-game nobody is saying Reading are tonnes better than us, are a gulf in class apart from us, etc.  It’s a reaction to us generally being poor today and Reading being better....so for one match we are suddenly over-rating Reading.

I don’t disagree that there have been periods in recent games where we’ve struggled.

Nobody was saying that, because Reading were on a bad run of form and we hadn’t played them. I don’t know how anyone could say before hand that there’s a gulf in class without us playing them. Now we have, it’s pretty clear.

You’re right to say it’s one game and to call for perspective, but if we chose that same XI every time the result would probably be the same IMO. 

I’ve not been shy in expressing my opinion previously that a back three of Rowe, Moore and Vyner is asking for trouble, especially with the three selected ahead of them often offering little protection. We’ve got away with it at times this season, not today. 

[stephenkibby.]

48 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

For me Kalas, Mawson and Williams will all improve us greatly. Add in Bakinson.

We need them back as soon as possible because if we can improve the spin of the team, it gives the foundation for the flair players to be at their best.

Yeah that's fair but what are the chances of Mawson playing again this season and we have no date for Williams.

If we can hang around near the top six then a couple of astute signings in January will be needed if we want to give it a real go.

 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, tin said:

Nobody was saying that, because Reading were on a bad run of form and we hadn’t played them. I don’t know how anyone could say before hand that there’s a gulf in class without us playing them. Now we have, it’s pretty clear.

You’re right to say it’s one game and to call for perspective, but if we chose that same XI every time the result would probably be the same IMO. 

I’ve not been shy in expressing my opinion previously that a back three of Rowe, Moore and Vyner is asking for trouble, especially with the three selected ahead of them often offering little protection. We’ve got away with it at times this season, not today. 

Put it this way, that wouldn’t have been my starting line-up either with the players available either.

Re the 3 centre backs, they defended fairly well today...but as a 3 you have the security to do so.  But we got ripped part when Rowe went off (I thought he was good today, win his aerials, won his tackles, distributed the ball really well, brought it into the left side).  It probably proved that we can’t go back 4 with just Moore and Vyner....it needs Kalas (or another experienced CB).

I don’t want to bash the midfield, but as much as it’s been “present” in getting results in its current form...it doesn’t control a match...and the question will open back up from several of the arguments made in the O’Dowda thread this week.  If you argued for its effectiveness this week, you have to accept today it did little.  Ignore individuals, it’s a team effort and as a unit it fell apart at times today.

The forward line has issues in its current guise.  

[Sheltons Army]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Put it this way, that wouldn’t have been my starting line-up either with the players available either.

Re the 3 centre backs, they defended fairly well today...but as a 3 you have the security to do so.  But we got ripped part when Rowe went off (I thought he was good today, win his aerials, won his tackles, distributed the ball really well, brought it into the left side).  It probably proved that we can’t go back 4 with just Moore and Vyner....it needs Kalas (or another experienced CB).

I don’t want to bash the midfield, but as much as it’s been “present” in getting results in its current form...it doesn’t control a match...and the question will open back up from several of the arguments made in the O’Dowda thread this week.  If you argued for its effectiveness this week, you have to accept today it did little.  Ignore individuals, it’s a team effort and as a unit it fell apart at times today.

The forward line has issues in its current guise.  

Agree with all that

The reality is we have plenty of ‘adequate’ players at this level but few that have that additional quality to push us a level (Semenyo the potential to do so if he keeps improving) (Some like Pato , on occasions but not through a season) etc

We have a system that I wouldn’t have gone with but tbf to DH he has his ideas and at least appears to be working on it with his Lieutenants

Still think we need to be a min 8 as a team to consistently get results and that’s a big ask

If you have a couple of top players at this level , especially creative , or more likely up top you can win games with some team performances being a 7, 6 or even worse 

 

[Bedred31]

1 hour ago, Mihai said:

The game stats are even worse. 21 shots vs 4.

From 55% possession, compared to Readings 45%.

[archie andrews]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

For me Kalas, Mawson and Williams will all improve us greatly. Add in Bakinson.

We need them back as soon as possible because if we can improve the spin of the team, it gives the foundation for the flair players to be at their best.

Apart from paterson who are the flair players? 

[Alessandro]

3 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

Apart from paterson who are the flair players? 

I guess I mean more attacking players. Pato, COD, Walsh, Weimann and then the front line. 

Also provide more safety (confidence) for Hunt and Dasilva to get forwards. 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, tin said:

With respect, Dave, I disagree. It looked like men against boys today. We had no press, we were extremely slow to regain our shape after losing the ball, and carried no threat in the final third for most of the game. I saw similar patterns first half v Norwich, most of the game v Cardiff, 70 mins v Huddersfield, second half v AFCB, so I don’t think this can be called an isolated reaction. Today, it could and should’ve been 5 or 6. It would’ve been if it wasn’t for Bentley, who’s been our player of the season so far IMO. 

That sounds like a problem with the coaching rather than the personnel to me.

[Bris Red]

37 minutes ago, tin said:

 

I’ve not been shy in expressing my opinion previously that a back three of Rowe, Moore and Vyner is asking for trouble, especially with the three selected ahead of them often offering little protection. We’ve got away with it at times this season, not today. 

Agreed. It’s clear Rowe isn’t a centre half (although to be fair to him he is giving it a good go) and Moore is vastly overrated by the staff and a lot of fans at this club. Vyner is the only one of the 3 i have genuine confidence in but even he is still young and needs the experience around him. A back 3 of Mawson Kalas and Vyner/Baker and today’s result may have been much different.

It is what it is and we cant keep using our injuries as an excuse. It’s painfully obvious that as a squad we just don’t have the strength and depth to mount a serious promotion challenge.

[petehinton]

We’re going into December in the top 6, after playing all the top 6, potentially 4 key players to come back from injury, and people don’t think we are good enough to finish top 6. Dear oh dear. This is the city we all know and love. 
 

Norwich and Bournemouth failing to beat Coventry and Rotherham. Awful, not good enough to finish top 2 that 

[pillred]

19 minutes ago, petehinton said:

We’re going into December in the top 6, after playing all the top 6, potentially 4 key players to come back from injury, and people don’t think we are good enough to finish top 6. Dear oh dear. This is the city we all know and love. 
 

Norwich and Bournemouth failing to beat Coventry and Rotherham. Awful, not good enough to finish top 2 that 

But we haven't beaten any of the top six we have played and despite some of our results have you actually seen the performances?

[petehinton]

2 minutes ago, pillred said:

But we haven't beaten any of the top six we have played and despite some of our results have you actually seen the performances?

We’ve also only lost to 2 of them, people can spin stuff however they want. Bournemouth and Watford I think feasibly we could’ve won. Had good chances in both. This weird negativity around being 5th with Mawson, Sessegnon, Kalas, Baker, Weimann, Bakinson, Walsh, and Williams all out injured is very odd. 
 

Do people still think we’d be top under Hughton or something? I wanted him as much as the next man. But he’s won 3 of his first 9 games at Forest. 

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, bris red said:

Agreed. It’s clear Rowe isn’t a centre half (although to be fair to him he is giving it a good go) and Moore is vastly overrated by the staff and a lot of fans at this club. Vyner is the only one of the 3 i have genuine confidence in but even he is still young and needs the experience around him. A back 3 of Mawson Kalas and Vyner/Baker and today’s result may have been much different.

It is what it is and we cant keep using our injuries as an excuse. It’s painfully obvious that as a squad we just don’t have the strength and depth to mount a serious promotion challenge.

Holden isn’t using injuries as an excuse, that’s a good thing.

However if we can be 5/6th at the end of this weekend with a depleted squad, then that isn’t a bad thing.  But I accept if you take the opening four games out of the equation then it looks different....but you can’t organise the fixtures so you just get on with it.

How crap are Norwich, only drew with Coventry today....we beat them.

How crap are Boro, lost to Huddersfield....we beat them.

How crap are Bournemouth, drew with Rotherham....they’re relegation fodder.

I jest, but this is the Championship....you earn your points against whoever.  The only point where being 5/6th but not beating the top sides matters is when you might play them in the play-offs.  Until then, it’s about getting to the top 6 first.

 

 

[pillred]

2 minutes ago, petehinton said:

We’ve also only lost to 2 of them, people can spin stuff however they want. Bournemouth and Watford I think feasibly we could’ve won. Had good chances in both. This weird negativity around being 5th with Mawson, Sessegnon, Kalas, Baker, Weimann, Bakinson, Walsh, and Williams all out injured is very odd. 
 

Do people still think we’d be top under Hughton or something? I wanted him as much as the next man. But he’s won 3 of his first 9 games at Forest. 

It's all down to the performances, we may well improve when those players come back but there is no denying watching city at the moment is hard work.

[Alessandro]

42 minutes ago, petehinton said:

We’re going into December in the top 6, after playing all the top 6, potentially 4 key players to come back from injury, and people don’t think we are good enough to finish top 6. Dear oh dear. This is the city we all know and love. 
 

Norwich and Bournemouth failing to beat Coventry and Rotherham. Awful, not good enough to finish top 2 that 

 

14 minutes ago, petehinton said:

We’ve also only lost to 2 of them, people can spin stuff however they want. Bournemouth and Watford I think feasibly we could’ve won. Had good chances in both. This weird negativity around being 5th with Mawson, Sessegnon, Kalas, Baker, Weimann, Bakinson, Walsh, and Williams all out injured is very odd. 
 

Do people still think we’d be top under Hughton or something? I wanted him as much as the next man. But he’s won 3 of his first 9 games at Forest. 

All fair points (but it’s lost 3 out of our 4 games vs teams currently in top 6 BTW).

It’s not negativity on my part personally, I’m still happy with where we are in the league of course given the injuries....but given how Walsh and Williams have been pushed back and we have no timeline on Mawson, I feel like this argument some keep falling back on about players coming back in is slightly hopeful thinking. Lots of ifs and buts there so relying on this fantasy of a fit squad, is probably just that.

The thing for me is about whether we can sustain this position. That’s why I ask the question. Of course in this division anyone can beat anyone. Teams go on runs etc etc. But fundamentally if we’re serious about a sustained and real promotion challenge of 46 games, I think it’s fair to ask these questions and this is a stat that doesn’t bode particularly well for me.