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What's Massengo good at?

INB Red

By INB Red
in Football Chat

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mozo

mozo

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, INB Red said:

This is a genuine question. No hate and the post isn't solely based on his cameo today. Just want your perspective, maybe others see something I don't.

Please don't reply with hate, just answers

Genuine answer...

He's a proper pass and move footballer.

Great balance and centre of gravity. 

Sophisticated first and second touch.

High energy.

Shields the ball well.

 

He was rubbish when he came on, but it was his first minutes for a couple of months.

Any neutral would have said that Semenyo is a below average prospect based on today, and would have said the same about Massengo.

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bcfc01

bcfc01

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Just now, mozo said:

Genuine answer...

He's a proper pass and move footballer.

Great balance and centre of gravity. 

Sophisticated first and second touch.

High energy.

Shields the ball well.

 

He was rubbish when he came on, but it was his first minutes for a couple of months.

Any neutral would have said that Semenyo is a below average prospect based on today, and would have said the same about Massengo.

Agree with that.

Its apparent (to me anyway) that Massengo and Nagy have had top class coaching - those two are technically head and shoulders above any other player in the squad imo.

Simple stuff like their body shape when receiving the ball makes it easy for them to get off a pass first time, no second touch required.

Lucky to have the pair of them when they are fit and well. 

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Tipps69

Tipps69

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, INB Red said:

This is a genuine question. No hate and the post isn't solely based on his cameo today. Just want your perspective, maybe others see something I don't.

Please don't reply with hate, just answers

Is this in some way pointing to today’s loss being down to Massengo’s 9 minutes on the pitch (that’s including the 5 minutes of injury time)?

Not sure what was expected of him, coming on with the team having already changed formation & chasing the game as we were already behind, we put a young lad on who’s missed 2 or 3 weeks of training recently because of the Covid-19 outbreak that affected the club & who was reported to still be suffering with chest pains as recently as a week or so ago. He’s played first team games for us before the likes of Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid, Taylor Moore & possibly Zak Vyner so he has plenty of time to fulfil his potential if you look to where the first two off my list are now.

Quite simply, what we are going through right now isn’t easy for anyone, the size of our squad, the schedule, the injuries or the lifestyle of actually having to deal with what’s going on while trying to perform to the best of their ability.

As for what he does well, I would of given anything to be able to play football as well as he does because he obviously has something to of been able to play for Monaco, play in the Champions League, play in Ligue 1 & to represent his country at his age levels!

It’s not easy to just come in & play & to be excellent when you haven’t played for ages or if you only play small parts of games for weeks.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Is this in some way pointing to today’s loss being down to Massengo’s 9 minutes on the pitch (that’s including the 5 minutes of injury time)?

Not sure what was expected of him, coming on with the team having already changed formation & chasing the game as we were already behind, we put a young lad on who’s missed 2 or 3 weeks of training recently because of the Covid-19 outbreak that affected the club & who was reported to still be suffering with chest pains as recently as a week or so ago. He’s played first team games for us before the likes of Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid, Taylor Moore & possibly Zak Vyner so he has plenty of time to fulfil his potential if you look to where the first two off my list are now.

Quite simply, what we are going through right now isn’t easy for anyone, the size of our squad, the schedule, the injuries or the lifestyle of actually having to deal with what’s going on while trying to perform to the best of their ability.

As for what he does well, I would of given anything to be able to play football as well as he does because he obviously has something to of been able to play for Monaco, play in the Champions League, play in Ligue 1 & to represent his country at his age levels!

It’s not easy to just come in & play & to be excellent when you haven’t played for ages or if you only play small parts of games for weeks.

And other players are given the excuse of “need to see them in a run of games”....let alone 9 minutes.  I can think of several other players I’d be focussing on tonight if I wanted to play the “blame game” or “let’s define their career”.

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Jeez

Jeez

Posted
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2 hours ago, INB Red said:

I don't want to debate, I asked a question and expected answers. You're all assuming I don't rate Massengo when I don't ahve particularly strong feelings towards him either way. Like one person said, there's many worse players at the club at the moment and we're still in a good position so no need for witch hunts anyway. He's still a very, very young player.

??

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M.D

M.D

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43 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Agree with that.

Its apparent (to me anyway) that Massengo and Nagy have had top class coaching - those two are technically head and shoulders above any other player in the squad imo.

Simple stuff like their body shape when receiving the ball makes it easy for them to get off a pass first time, no second touch required.

Lucky to have the pair of them when they are fit and well. 

Spot on I feel, Im not a fan of having a midfield three with Pato and Cod in it, would rather we tried Nagy, HNM with Pat or COD just in front of them. HNM has a lot to offer moving forward and needs game time..

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INB Red

INB Red

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35 minutes ago, Red Alert said:

??

 

41 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

I’d rather him than Chris Brunt.....?! 
 

 

Brunt signing is a joke

49 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Is this in some way pointing to today’s loss being down to Massengo’s 9 minutes on the pitch (that’s including the 5 minutes of injury time)?

Not sure what was expected of him, coming on with the team having already changed formation & chasing the game as we were already behind, we put a young lad on who’s missed 2 or 3 weeks of training recently because of the Covid-19 outbreak that affected the club & who was reported to still be suffering with chest pains as recently as a week or so ago. He’s played first team games for us before the likes of Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid, Taylor Moore & possibly Zak Vyner so he has plenty of time to fulfil his potential if you look to where the first two off my list are now.

Quite simply, what we are going through right now isn’t easy for anyone, the size of our squad, the schedule, the injuries or the lifestyle of actually having to deal with what’s going on while trying to perform to the best of their ability.

As for what he does well, I would of given anything to be able to play football as well as he does because he obviously has something to of been able to play for Monaco, play in the Champions League, play in Ligue 1 & to represent his country at his age levels!

It’s not easy to just come in & play & to be excellent when you haven’t played for ages or if you only play small parts of games for weeks.

no

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Prinny

Prinny

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Before I start, my opinions are based on clips, reports, and what I see as his assets. I don't think I've seen him enough to really make a great judgement on him but i do think I've seen enough to not think we using him that well. I'm not sure if there is a perfect role for him in the "6" and two "8s" concept.

I think Massengo is a continuity player. He is MEANT to be good at short and mid range passing and good in tight areas. This all comes from his back ground in "cage" football. Watching the Monaco clips when we signed him, he could set up moves going forwards, either with runs or passes, nick the ball off of players and draw lots of fouls or even beat players with his ability to turn in tight spaces. When he was successful for us last season these were the areas of success.

He's not a holding player IMO, like we've tried to use him. For the French youth teams he plays as an 8 or sometimes even in the 10 space. This is just from googled formations, shirt numbers, I obviously don't watch the games. He does not suit the solo 6 role IMO due to the lack of top end speed and the running range to cover into the full back areas. I think that role is hard for anyone and a big weakness in our system tbh.

I think it's really easy to see what he's good at and what he's not from his earlier performances this season. Against Coventry in the role I think he's unsuited for he wasn't very good. When he came on against Villa (Bakinson was playing the holding role) he actually looked a lot better in the further forward position. Round pegs and round holes etc.

If the plan was to turn him into Korey Smith then I think that was a bad plan by the people who brought him in, if we keep playing him in that 6 role I think it's an error of self scouting. We have these ex England youth coaches, and a youth International. I expect them to be able to identify his ability and improve him. Maybe he's just awful, but I don't think so, I think he has good assets if we try to use them.

I'm absolutely not saying he should be playing, or that he will become something, but I do think we've been misusing him generally as to what his strengths SHOULD be and I think that's what people should be judging him against. I'm also kinda concerned about the bulking up. It seems like a lot, and I wonder if he's lost flexibility, balance and speed because of quite rapid nature of it.

If you watch the training videos, recommend focusing on Massengo and when he's shooting, he's abysmal.

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Prinny

Prinny

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good summary @Prinny and the bulk up thing was something I mentioned back in July.

Spot on re the DM/6...although a lot of this comes from people’s expectations or their perception of the role, rather than perhaps how Holden has asked them to play or how it compliments others.

I think it's a terminology problem which drives perception. The other problem is the weight of history and the players we're used to playing the too broad "DMC" role. We often use "holding" or "sitting" when perhaps we should use "screening". Adam Nagy is not SITTING, or HOLDING. He is tracking players into fullback areas and dealing with breaking midfielders. If you don't have high mobility this role is not suitable. Because if you miss you have to be able to recover. Bakinson can do it because of the long range strides. Nagy is an energizer bunny. There's a reason why Brunt and Massengo look bad doing it. 

 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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22 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I think it's a terminology problem which drives perception. The other problem is the weight of history and the players we're used to playing the too broad "DMC" role. We often use "holding" or "sitting" when perhaps we should use "screening". Adam Nagy is not SITTING, or HOLDING. He is tracking players into fullback areas and dealing with breaking midfielders. If you don't have high mobility this role is not suitable. Because if you miss you have to be able to recover. Bakinson can do it because of the long range strides. Nagy is an energizer bunny. There's a reason why Brunt and Massengo look bad doing it. 

 

The D in DM doesn’t help...Defensive or Deep? Or even something else?

At the end of the day I don’t particularly care what label we give a player as long as they play cohesively with and without the ball.

I still don’t really get the term “double pivot”...but it’s en vogue to use it.  Whenever someone sees 2 in a midfield, typically a 4231, the term comes flying out...yet it could be anything but.

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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Posted
13 hours ago, headhunter said:

My comment was not based on today's showing! When did he have a game of note. For that matter when did O'Dowda? Feb 2019 Norwich away is the last one that comes to mind!

With regard to Massengo, since the last game that allowed fans in (Fulham at home in March, when he was excellent) he has featured 4 times in 8 months in the league.

2 games were immediately after the restart,  when LJ had completely lost the plot, then the opening game of the season (he did ok but was overshadowed by Bakinson coming on & grasping his chance) & 5 minutes yesterday. Not much opportunity to have a “game of note”, is it?

I actually thought O’Dowda played well against both Watford & Derby, myself..

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Bazooka Joe

Bazooka Joe

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15 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Last week he had to stop training because of chest pains, he has also been ill.

 

 

15 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

As DaveFevs said he had 8 minutes. Yes , 8 bloody minutes to get into a game when he hasn’t played for weeks and has had a positive COVID test so was in isolation.

 

If this is the case, should he have been brought on, or even in the squad?

Having said that, we have all seen players come on and become heroes in eight minutes or less.

He seems to have regressed and lost confidence since last season's early bright and promising start.

 

 

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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24 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

 

If this is the case, should he have been brought on, or even in the squad?

Having said that, we have all seen players come on and become heroes in eight minutes or less.

He seems to have regressed and lost confidence since last season's early bright and promising start.

 

 

Personally I don’t think so but presumably we had medical say so to bring him on.

Agreed, certainly lost confidence.

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CityCiderEd

CityCiderEd

Posted
Posted

He was in the Monaco first team squad for six league games (3 on the bench) and played in 3 CL games at 17. He's only 19 now so why do we expect him to come on for 9 minutes and run the show. Reading were far better than us all over the pitch and far more skilful on the ball. I would sooner get HNM up to speed playing in a functional MF than bring on Brunt who looks far from fit and offers very little.

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