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Kasey Palmer


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11 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

@TonyTonyTonywill be in tears over this!

Personally pretty glad. If Paterson is still first option going forward, at least we have someone to come in as back up. 

There's a great player in there, just need to find a way to get the best out of him.

Hey - i hope i turn out to be wrong about KP. I hope he comes back and rips up the league, but i cant see it.

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If we play him then lets play him in the right position. Dont flog him to death asking him to chase back and defend everything. He is a creative player. Give him the ball and lets have some movement from other players off it. Thats what was missing when he played before. Even De Bruyne couldnt create much  for us with our  present static play

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Makes a lot of sense.

Personally I would prefer it if Swansea bought him, allowing us to bring in someone else, but that isn’t going to happen, so as it is unarguably the case that he is a better bet than a bench full of those we have in line to loan out next season, he should come back.

So should Cameron Pring in light of the Dasilva news & James Morton, who cannot get game time at Grimsby, so may as well be a bench option here.

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1 minute ago, marmite said:

If we play him then lets play him in the right position. Dont flog him to death asking him to chase back and defend everything. He is a creative player. Give him the ball and lets have some movement from other players off it. Thats what was missing when he played before. Even De Bruyne couldnt create much  for us with our  present static play

What so everybody else has to put a shift in, and he gets to mince about trying to do worldie passes? Thats basically a good summary of his career to date with City

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8 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

What so everybody else has to put a shift in, and he gets to mince about trying to do worldie passes? Thats basically a good summary of his career to date with City

I wish someone would try to do something different for a change. To you...to me...to you...to me..etc..borefest!!

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22 minutes ago, marmite said:

If we play him then lets play him in the right position. Dont flog him to death asking him to chase back and defend everything. He is a creative player. Give him the ball and lets have some movement from other players off it. 

Bringing Palmer back smacks of desperation to me. Then again, we're desperate...

If he does return, I agree we need to play him correctly.

Nakhi Wells was successful at QPR with Eberechi Eze playing off him as a no.10 and I'd be tempted to try something similar with Wells and Palmer.  

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34 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Bringing Palmer back smacks of desperation to me. Then again, we're desperate...

If he does return, I agree we need to play him correctly.

Nakhi Wells was successful at QPR with Eberechi Eze playing off him as a no.10 and I'd be tempted to try something similar with Wells and Palmer.  

I think that’s the only potential use of him - he is like playing with a man short out of possession - 

If we have to use him - Id do exactly what you suggest

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2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Would be the third opportunity for him to try and solve our problems. He's failed twice so who knows maybe third time's the charm. Personally I'd be amazed if he came back and turned the season around single-handedly

If given the choice I'd leave him where he is.

To be fair, if you put that sort of pressure on him then he is most definitely doomed to fail. It’s up to the coaching staff and medical teams to turn this current blip around... getting injured players back and playing a system where we at least show some attacking intent.

Yes, KP has to up his work rate but his type of creativity and guile is completely non-existent in the current squad and we have no idea when the likes of Paterson, Walsh will return so it makes total sense to bring him back

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18 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

To be fair, if you put that sort of pressure on him then he is most definitely doomed to fail. It’s up to the coaching staff and medical teams to turn this current blip around... getting injured players back and playing a system where we at least show some attacking intent.

Yes, KP has to up his work rate but his type of creativity and guile is completely non-existent in the current squad and we have no idea when the likes of Paterson, Walsh will return so it makes total sense to bring him back

I do agree, but read the comments in this thread and you see that most are saying he has to come back because we currently cannot create and Palmer can. So that is absolutely pinning all your hopes on one bloke who so far in the league (so I am admittedly setting aside one exceptional game against the mighty Northampton Town) has 3 goals and 4 assists for us in 40 appearances. Semenyo has more assists (5) this season alone - so where's the cry for him to return to the team as our creator?

I personally think that before we try (again) to use a player of Palmer's ilk we need to focus on getting back to basics. Move, receive a pass, pass, move again. Work the ball into effective positions through a disciplined and simple game plan.

Palmer was initially brought in by LJ to solve the precise problem you describe. He was then signed permanently, again looking to solve that exact problem.

When he signed on loan in Jan 2019:

LJ "Kasey is a very good player who can play through the middle and out wide; he can create openings as well as score goals..." and then later after FA Cup 5th round v Bolton "I also thought Kasey Palmer gave us that bit of spark when we needed it. He’s still got to get into our systems and that may take a little bit of time. But he’s got that physical prowess and technical ability to go past people and put them on the back foot."

KP "My preferred position is playing centrally behind the striker, in an attacking role and hopefully create and score goals to help the team go and reach the play-offs."

When signing permanently in Aug 2019:

KP "I want more goals, assists and to try and get my stats as good as possible."

So both times he signed for us the aims were, broadly, creativity, goal, and assists. The stats for those are earlier in my post.

He's not a bad player. I just do not think he would solve the problems we currently have.

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@ExiledAjax agree, one player doesn’t solve the problem, just like playing 3 or 4 up front doesn’t guarantee you score.

If Holden thinks he can get the best out of Palmer by fitting him into the team in a particular way, then great.  If he just swaps him in and expects miracles then no point.

Im certainly not suggesting building a team around him, but thinking more about how Dean wants us to play.

As a really bad example, getting our defence 20 yards up the pitch quickly might have an impact that means Palmer can get on the ball in their final third where a) he can use his skill, b) it matters less if he loses it.  We have to stop thinking the player will make a difference on his own without other stuff happening.

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18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@ExiledAjax agree, one player doesn’t solve the problem, just like playing 3 or 4 up front doesn’t guarantee you score.

If Holden thinks he can get the best out of Palmer by fitting him into the team in a particular way, then great.  If he just swaps him in and expects miracles then no point.

Im certainly not suggesting building a team around him, but thinking more about how Dean wants us to play.

As a really bad example, getting our defence 20 yards up the pitch quickly might have an impact that means Palmer can get on the ball in their final third where a) he can use his skill, b) it matters less if he loses it.  We have to stop thinking the player will make a difference on his own without other stuff happening.

I agree, I think you're agreeing with me dismissing the idea that he can come in and suddenly we'll be forcing five wonder saves a game from every opposition keeper.

I think there's some evidence from Holden's time so far that he doesn't think he can use Palmer. Hence Kasey has barely played under him and went out on loan.

Honestly I haven't seen us try some kind of change such as your "bad example" with the players we have. I'd rather we do that before we bring Palmer in for a third time.

Put it this way. If people were saying we about to sign a different CAM (perhaps called Pasey Kalmer) who in 2.5 seasons had scored 3 and had 4 assists in a championship team where he'd been in and out of the squad, and was currently bench warming on loan..I'm not sure many would be enthused.

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7 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

He's not doing anything at Swansea so he may as well come back, but I don't expect he will change a lot. He'll only be creative if he can be arsed and that is dubious. If we can find some form before he comes back then he might be useful but if the going gets tough expect him to go missing. 

I can honestly say I don’t think Palmer has ever gone missing in the sense of hiding like some players.  He’s always tried to get into positions to receive the ball, he’s not someone who makes sure he’s directly behind a player blocking a passing lane.

Is he naturally fit? No.

Does he perform the press well? No.

Does he shy away from tackles? No, but he’s a bit crap

Is he lazy? No, not imho, we’ve not seen him match sharp through a run of games really either and he hares around wasting effort.

Does he give the ball away in stupid positions? Yes, although sometimes because he makes himself available in bad positions and relieves someone else from giving it away.

Does he have that bit of magic? Yes, we haven’t seen it enough though.

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4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I agree, I think you're agreeing with me dismissing the idea that he can come in and suddenly we'll be forcing five wonder saves a game from every opposition keeper.

I think there's some evidence from Holden's time so far that he doesn't think he can use Palmer. Hence Kasey has barely played under him and went out on loan.

Honestly I haven't seen us try some kind of change such as your "bad example" with the players we have. I'd rather we do that before we bring Palmer in for a third time.

Put it this way. If people were saying we about to sign a different CAM (perhaps called Pasey Kalmer) who in 2.5 seasons had scored 3 and had 4 assists in a championship team where he'd been in and out of the squad, and was currently bench warming on loan..I'm not sure many would be enthused.

Indeed I was.

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As per some other comments, if we were to recall Palmer then we MUST play him as an attacking midfielder, just behind the striker(s). 
 

If Holden is still keen on keeping to a back 3, perhaps a 3-4-1-2 would be ideal for Kasey. 
 

       Vyner-Kalas-Mariappa

Hunt  -  Nagy - Bakinson - Rowe

                  Palmer 

       Semenyo  -   Wells

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