TonyTonyTony Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Carey 6 said: @TonyTonyTonywill be in tears over this! Personally pretty glad. If Paterson is still first option going forward, at least we have someone to come in as back up. There's a great player in there, just need to find a way to get the best out of him. Hey - i hope i turn out to be wrong about KP. I hope he comes back and rips up the league, but i cant see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 I don’t think we have much of a choice but to bring him back. We’re currently dead on our knees and not scoring goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Hasn't pulled up any trees at Swansea but needs must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstart Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 If true it doesn't fill me with any confidence that Walsh or Williams are going to be available any time soon then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire robin Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 He will be delighted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Northern Red said: Hasn't pulled up any trees at Swansea but needs must. Nor did Paterson at Derby..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 In fairness what have we got to lose, we are literally creating sweet f all in games so he can’t be any worse than what we currently have.. I don’t think he is the answer mind but better to have him as an option than not IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Would be the third opportunity for him to try and solve our problems. He's failed twice so who knows maybe third time's the charm. Personally I'd be amazed if he came back and turned the season around single-handedly. If given the choice I'd leave him where he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Definitely not the answer to whatever the question may be. He was shocking last night, spent more time falling over than he did playing football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 We hardly have 11 players on the pitch, bring him back. As someone said: it cant be worse. Last two games have been dreadful, we have nothing to lose. Palmer have not had so many good games in City but I would give him games during this situation with so many players injuried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 If we play him then lets play him in the right position. Dont flog him to death asking him to chase back and defend everything. He is a creative player. Give him the ball and lets have some movement from other players off it. Thats what was missing when he played before. Even De Bruyne couldnt create much for us with our present static play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Makes a lot of sense. Personally I would prefer it if Swansea bought him, allowing us to bring in someone else, but that isn’t going to happen, so as it is unarguably the case that he is a better bet than a bench full of those we have in line to loan out next season, he should come back. So should Cameron Pring in light of the Dasilva news & James Morton, who cannot get game time at Grimsby, so may as well be a bench option here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 minute ago, marmite said: If we play him then lets play him in the right position. Dont flog him to death asking him to chase back and defend everything. He is a creative player. Give him the ball and lets have some movement from other players off it. Thats what was missing when he played before. Even De Bruyne couldnt create much for us with our present static play What so everybody else has to put a shift in, and he gets to mince about trying to do worldie passes? Thats basically a good summary of his career to date with City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Northern Red said: Hasn't pulled up any trees at Swansea but needs must. That’s deforestation for you! They say a rain forest the size of Wales is cut down every day....but I didn’t know Wales itself was a rain forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyez Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Can they send Smith back instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: What so everybody else has to put a shift in, and he gets to mince about trying to do worldie passes? Thats basically a good summary of his career to date with City I wish someone would try to do something different for a change. To you...to me...to you...to me..etc..borefest!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, RedEyez said: Can they send Smith back instead? Take a look at Koreys stats at Swansea. Played pretty much 90 mins every game, and only been on the bench once. Hindsight is everything, but we really should have kept him. Still only 29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, marmite said: If we play him then lets play him in the right position. Dont flog him to death asking him to chase back and defend everything. He is a creative player. Give him the ball and lets have some movement from other players off it. Bringing Palmer back smacks of desperation to me. Then again, we're desperate... If he does return, I agree we need to play him correctly. Nakhi Wells was successful at QPR with Eberechi Eze playing off him as a no.10 and I'd be tempted to try something similar with Wells and Palmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveF Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Our formation should suit Palmer, I would be pleased to see him given a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 34 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Bringing Palmer back smacks of desperation to me. Then again, we're desperate... If he does return, I agree we need to play him correctly. Nakhi Wells was successful at QPR with Eberechi Eze playing off him as a no.10 and I'd be tempted to try something similar with Wells and Palmer. I think that’s the only potential use of him - he is like playing with a man short out of possession - If we have to use him - Id do exactly what you suggest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Wiltshire robin said: He will be delighted Ha. But given our injuries and recent performances even if he isn’t he ain’t got a choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: Would be the third opportunity for him to try and solve our problems. He's failed twice so who knows maybe third time's the charm. Personally I'd be amazed if he came back and turned the season around single-handedly. If given the choice I'd leave him where he is. To be fair, if you put that sort of pressure on him then he is most definitely doomed to fail. It’s up to the coaching staff and medical teams to turn this current blip around... getting injured players back and playing a system where we at least show some attacking intent. Yes, KP has to up his work rate but his type of creativity and guile is completely non-existent in the current squad and we have no idea when the likes of Paterson, Walsh will return so it makes total sense to bring him back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, RedRaw said: To be fair, if you put that sort of pressure on him then he is most definitely doomed to fail. It’s up to the coaching staff and medical teams to turn this current blip around... getting injured players back and playing a system where we at least show some attacking intent. Yes, KP has to up his work rate but his type of creativity and guile is completely non-existent in the current squad and we have no idea when the likes of Paterson, Walsh will return so it makes total sense to bring him back I do agree, but read the comments in this thread and you see that most are saying he has to come back because we currently cannot create and Palmer can. So that is absolutely pinning all your hopes on one bloke who so far in the league (so I am admittedly setting aside one exceptional game against the mighty Northampton Town) has 3 goals and 4 assists for us in 40 appearances. Semenyo has more assists (5) this season alone - so where's the cry for him to return to the team as our creator? I personally think that before we try (again) to use a player of Palmer's ilk we need to focus on getting back to basics. Move, receive a pass, pass, move again. Work the ball into effective positions through a disciplined and simple game plan. Palmer was initially brought in by LJ to solve the precise problem you describe. He was then signed permanently, again looking to solve that exact problem. When he signed on loan in Jan 2019: LJ "Kasey is a very good player who can play through the middle and out wide; he can create openings as well as score goals..." and then later after FA Cup 5th round v Bolton "I also thought Kasey Palmer gave us that bit of spark when we needed it. He’s still got to get into our systems and that may take a little bit of time. But he’s got that physical prowess and technical ability to go past people and put them on the back foot." KP "My preferred position is playing centrally behind the striker, in an attacking role and hopefully create and score goals to help the team go and reach the play-offs." When signing permanently in Aug 2019: KP "I want more goals, assists and to try and get my stats as good as possible." So both times he signed for us the aims were, broadly, creativity, goal, and assists. The stats for those are earlier in my post. He's not a bad player. I just do not think he would solve the problems we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 @ExiledAjax agree, one player doesn’t solve the problem, just like playing 3 or 4 up front doesn’t guarantee you score. If Holden thinks he can get the best out of Palmer by fitting him into the team in a particular way, then great. If he just swaps him in and expects miracles then no point. Im certainly not suggesting building a team around him, but thinking more about how Dean wants us to play. As a really bad example, getting our defence 20 yards up the pitch quickly might have an impact that means Palmer can get on the ball in their final third where a) he can use his skill, b) it matters less if he loses it. We have to stop thinking the player will make a difference on his own without other stuff happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 He's not doing anything at Swansea so he may as well come back, but I don't expect he will change a lot. He'll only be creative if he can be arsed and that is dubious. If we can find some form before he comes back then he might be useful but if the going gets tough expect him to go missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, Davefevs said: @ExiledAjax agree, one player doesn’t solve the problem, just like playing 3 or 4 up front doesn’t guarantee you score. If Holden thinks he can get the best out of Palmer by fitting him into the team in a particular way, then great. If he just swaps him in and expects miracles then no point. Im certainly not suggesting building a team around him, but thinking more about how Dean wants us to play. As a really bad example, getting our defence 20 yards up the pitch quickly might have an impact that means Palmer can get on the ball in their final third where a) he can use his skill, b) it matters less if he loses it. We have to stop thinking the player will make a difference on his own without other stuff happening. I agree, I think you're agreeing with me dismissing the idea that he can come in and suddenly we'll be forcing five wonder saves a game from every opposition keeper. I think there's some evidence from Holden's time so far that he doesn't think he can use Palmer. Hence Kasey has barely played under him and went out on loan. Honestly I haven't seen us try some kind of change such as your "bad example" with the players we have. I'd rather we do that before we bring Palmer in for a third time. Put it this way. If people were saying we about to sign a different CAM (perhaps called Pasey Kalmer) who in 2.5 seasons had scored 3 and had 4 assists in a championship team where he'd been in and out of the squad, and was currently bench warming on loan..I'm not sure many would be enthused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said: He's not doing anything at Swansea so he may as well come back, but I don't expect he will change a lot. He'll only be creative if he can be arsed and that is dubious. If we can find some form before he comes back then he might be useful but if the going gets tough expect him to go missing. I can honestly say I don’t think Palmer has ever gone missing in the sense of hiding like some players. He’s always tried to get into positions to receive the ball, he’s not someone who makes sure he’s directly behind a player blocking a passing lane. Is he naturally fit? No. Does he perform the press well? No. Does he shy away from tackles? No, but he’s a bit crap Is he lazy? No, not imho, we’ve not seen him match sharp through a run of games really either and he hares around wasting effort. Does he give the ball away in stupid positions? Yes, although sometimes because he makes himself available in bad positions and relieves someone else from giving it away. Does he have that bit of magic? Yes, we haven’t seen it enough though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: I agree, I think you're agreeing with me dismissing the idea that he can come in and suddenly we'll be forcing five wonder saves a game from every opposition keeper. I think there's some evidence from Holden's time so far that he doesn't think he can use Palmer. Hence Kasey has barely played under him and went out on loan. Honestly I haven't seen us try some kind of change such as your "bad example" with the players we have. I'd rather we do that before we bring Palmer in for a third time. Put it this way. If people were saying we about to sign a different CAM (perhaps called Pasey Kalmer) who in 2.5 seasons had scored 3 and had 4 assists in a championship team where he'd been in and out of the squad, and was currently bench warming on loan..I'm not sure many would be enthused. Indeed I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 What’s the rules on loan recalls? Can we call him back now or do we have to wait til the transfer window opens in Jan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 As per some other comments, if we were to recall Palmer then we MUST play him as an attacking midfielder, just behind the striker(s). If Holden is still keen on keeping to a back 3, perhaps a 3-4-1-2 would be ideal for Kasey. Vyner-Kalas-Mariappa Hunt - Nagy - Bakinson - Rowe Palmer Semenyo - Wells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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