Kasey Palmer

[TonyTonyTony]

24 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He repeatedly fails to follow team instructions, including tracking back. 

He is a lazy bugger

[shelts]

Lovely talent but zero work rate . Wrong guy for the wrong time !!

[Meh]

1 hour ago, Redandproud said:

Quoted to Wales press , happy to stay at Swansea, now settled, that tells me he doesn't want to come back, 

I don’t take any local press seriously when it comes to players quotes.

I can see Marlon at City before we play Cardiff “***** banging their heads to fans - bunch of tits”

Marlon signs for Cardiff to reporter  - “I have always liked when players do this, gives you a sense of belonging”.

Not saying this happened, but, just making the point - you do and say what you want fans to hear.

[Mr Popodopolous]

My concern is that we were far from dominant with Palmer in the team, much of the time.

6 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Absolutely. Afobe only played 5 games for us before his injury (sounds familiar), he was pretty poor post his injury.

So QPR & Hull were really the only 2 games that this happened..

Yeah- though the Middlesbrough game was enjoyable, bit of a slugfest but yes agreed- even then possession, shots, shots conceded- even in the Hull and QPR games, all worse! Our midfield control seemed to disappear with Nagy vs QPR, when he went off, so did our dominance of that zone or control anyway!

[Porto Red]

3 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

He is a lazy bugger

Some people might find that offensive

You know, lazy people

[the frampton balti]

we paid chelsea good money for Palmer just recently

How we could then loan him out to a rival defies logic .

Sell for a profit perhaps. 

we have all seen this fellas talent. 

lets get him back in the fold . will link up well with nage and Massengo in a 532

with Semenyo and Wells up front

 

[TonyTonyTony]

2 minutes ago, the frampton balti said:

we have all seen this fellas talent. 

Have we? I remember a few brilliant passes mixed in with loads more of falling over and losing the ball. 

I dont get the KP Wet Dream tbh

[the frampton balti]

5 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Have we? I remember a few brilliant passes mixed in with loads more of falling over and losing the ball. 

I dont get the KP Wet Dream tbh

Not consistent I agree but rarely given a run in the side . Looked great with Afobe 

could do the same with Semenyo. 

these players dont seem to work as a team at the moment. It takes time to build up understandings predicting movement Knowing when to pass etc . Palmer is a creative midfielder that needs to work with energetic front line of wells and semenyo but it takes time.

Be honest i reckon we are disjointed  and will get Tonked tonight!!!

hope Im wong.

[phantom]

Steve Cooper says Swansea City must wait to see whether Kasey Palmer and Viktor Gyokeres are recalled by their parent clubs in January.

Attacking midfielder Palmer is on a season-long loan from Bristol City, while striker Gyokeres arrived from Brighton on a similar deal.

Neither player has been a regular under Swansea head coach Cooper.

"It's normal to have a clause in the January window on a loan, for the parent club to call back," Cooper said.

"We would be the same with the players we have out on loan.

"They probably would have both liked to have played more games and minutes than they have, but they understand the reasons why.

"Until we get told things will change, we'll carry on with that."

Ex-Chelsea youngster Palmer, 24, has made only two starts - plus nine substitute appearances - since joining Swansea just before the October transfer deadline.

That is despite the fact Morgan Gibbs-White, who plays in a similar position, has been out injured since early October.

 

With on-loan Wolves player Gibbs-White close to returning to fitness, Palmer is likely to face an even bigger battle for game time.

There are also suggestions Palmer, who joined Bristol City for a reported £3.5m fee in 2019, is wanted back at Ashton Gate regardless of his situation at Swansea, following injuries to the likes of Andreas Weimann and Jamie Paterson.

"I do believe some stuff has been written - whether that's official quotes or not I am not sure," Cooper added.

"In terms of official, we've not heard anything from Bristol City.

"Kasey is very much part of the group and what we are doing and we're enjoying having him here. Until we are told otherwise, hopefully not, we'll carry on with that."

Gyokeres, 22, is yet to score in 10 Swansea appearances, just two of which have been starts.

Should the Sweden international depart, Swansea are likely to target at least one new centre-forward during the January window.

When asked about Gyokeres, Cooper said: "There's a possibility for all of them (to be recalled) because the parent club hold the cards.

"It's the same message as Kasey. We're enjoying working with them, they're part of the group."

TAKEN FROM: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55429009

[Loosey Boy]

Given the ongoing issues with Pato and Walsh, get KP back and in the team - we crave some creativity!

[GrahamC]

With Walsh not back now before February at the earliest, Williams with no given return date at all & Paterson not fit at present, I would be amazed if we don’t bring him back, if only to strengthen the subs bench.

[Herta]

What’s happened at Swansea confirms to us what should be obvious to everyone by now, if it wasn’t already. 

Hes a talented individual, but football is a team game and he is terrible at that. 

Swansea will not buy him and he won’t solve our problems.

Right now, the most likely outcome for us and Kasey is a string of disappointing loans through to the end of his contract when we can finally release him on a free. 

[Tin Soldier]

1 hour ago, Herta said:

What’s happened at Swansea confirms to us what should be obvious to everyone by now, if it wasn’t already. 

Hes a talented individual, but football is a team game and he is terrible at that. 

Swansea will not buy him and he won’t solve our problems.

Right now, the most likely outcome for us and Kasey is a string of disappointing loans through to the end of his contract when we can finally release him on a free. 

Or as Sir Fergy stated in his book, you find a way to nurture/mentor “mavericks” like KP and get the best out of them. Good man management is a skill of its own that some managers have - and as we found out in recent years, some don’t!
Quite often, the difference between a good manager and a bad one.

[BCFC Rich]

3 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

Or as Sir Fergy stated in his book, you find a way to nurture/mentor “mavericks” like KP and get the best out of them. Good man management is a skill of its own that some managers have - and as we found out in recent years, some don’t!
Quite often, the difference between a good manager and a bad one.

I think that is all well and good if you know the maverick is taking you to a whole other level, but with KP I'm not sure that is a given. He is definitely exciting to watch at his best and given recent games I would be excited (if a bit apprehensive) to have him in the line up - if only in hope he brings a bit more excitement. But getting the best out of this type of player often means letting them have a unique position where less is expected of them defensively where they can be the centre of attention etc. If you are Zlatan then that can work fine. however if we do that with KP we risk upsetting the rest of the team and throwing out the squad harmony we clearly have. 

[MC RISK77]

If Palmer is the answer I don’t know what the question is, not really getting a look in at Swansea and certainly not for us.

physically weak and can’t see how he can get shoe horned into a team this negative and have a positive impact 

[Sheltons Army]

30 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

Or as Sir Fergy stated in his book, you find a way to nurture/mentor “mavericks” like KP and get the best out of them. Good man management is a skill of its own that some managers have - and as we found out in recent years, some don’t!
Quite often, the difference between a good manager and a bad one.

Ravel Morrisson....

Pogba ...

Just two for a start - Even Ferguson struggled to get the best out of , or see the benefit in some ...

[Bristol Oil Services]

8 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

If Palmer is the answer I don’t know what the question is, 

 

[Tin Soldier]

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

Ravel Morrisson....

Pogba ...

Just two for a start - Even Ferguson struggled to get the best out of , or see the benefit in some ...

I could throw a few names where Fergy did work his magic.

Just to name 3 - Roy Keane, Eric Cantona, Wayne Rooney, etc. The list is fairly long with Fergy. Hate Man U, but Fergy was the best manager for many years. 

[Sheltons Army]

2 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

I could throw a few names where Fergy did work his magic.

Just to name 3 - Roy Keane, Eric Cantona, Wayne Rooney, etc. The list is fairly long with Fergy. Hate Man U, but Fergy was the best manager for many years. 

He undoubtedly is , but I can also list plenty of players that he didn’t get the best from in his 400 signings 

But to infer our management arnt up to it if they can’t get the best out of Kasey Palmer is completely unfair

 

Hes been at five Clubs now and failed to get a starting spot at any of them 

Might have some skill but needs to learn how to play in a team - I watched him closely for Swansea the other night when he came in at half time

He was abysmal , cheating - not tracking his man , looked unfit and constantly lost the ball , and spent most of the game on his ass claiming for fouls that wern’t.

 

[Herta]

2 hours ago, GasDestroyer said:

Or as Sir Fergy stated in his book, you find a way to nurture/mentor “mavericks” like KP and get the best out of them. Good man management is a skill of its own that some managers have - and as we found out in recent years, some don’t!
Quite often, the difference between a good manager and a bad one.

Kasey is trading far to much on the potential once seen in him.

He never pushed on and became anything like a maverick, he’s 24 and failed to deliver performances required for multiple championship managers now - Mowbray, Johnson, Holden and Cooper.

I would love to be proven wrong, and it might be right he comes back here in Jan and gets a chance to show what he can supposedly do at last, but on all the evidence I see, that won’t happen and we will be disappointed. 

 

 

[Harry]

If everywhere you go smells, check under your shoe. 

[Sheltons Army]

16 minutes ago, Harry said:

If everywhere you go smells, check under your shoe. 

I’m sure he looked great surrounded by top players in Chelsea’s academy , in U ‘ ‘ football with his flicks and tricks 

The intensity and demands of the professional game is a different animal , I’m sure you’d agree

 

Purely as we paid £3.5 Million for him and undoubtedly a high wage earner for us - Id try and convince him , if he has a future at this level it’s probably as a second striker (I can’t see him and wouldn’t consider him in a 3 or 4 midfield - maybe in a 4-5-1 playing as a free man in the 5)

He has the build and technical ability to play as a second striker , basic responsibility defensively ...... but he would need to be fully enthusiastic and committed to it and learning / developing the role -

Interested in your (And anyone else’s) view 

 

Otherwise we will be offloading him to a certain type of club (Forest spring to mind ) for a massive loss 

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I’m sure he looked great surrounded by top players in Chelsea’s academy , in U ‘ ‘ football with his flicks and tricks 

The intensity and demands of the professional game is a different animal , I’m sure you’d agree

 

Purely as we paid £3.5 Million for him and undoubtedly a high wage earner for us - Id try and convince him , if he has a future at this level it’s probably as a second striker (I can’t see him and wouldn’t consider him in a 3 or 4 midfield - maybe in a 4-5-1 playing as a free man in the 5)

He has the build and technical ability to play as a second striker , basic responsibility defensively ...... but he would need to be fully enthusiastic and committed to it and learning / developing the role -

Interested in your (And anyone else’s) view 

 

Otherwise we will be offloading him to a certain type of club (Forest spring to mind ) for a massive loss 

I was thinking the same earlier.

I think we both saw the game the other week where he looked like he’d put a bit of timber on.  That’s a worry.

I still think he’s a talent.  He probably needs to grow-up.  He’s about to have a second child, can’t keep running away on loan.  Maybe it will dawn on him.

I’m not writing him off, yet.

[GrahamC]

The reality is Swansea clearly aren’t going to buy him from us, we are currently having to put 5 or 6 under 23 players on the subs bench, so he has to come back, not to make a big difference or to go straight into the side but to give us another option that with so many others long term injured we simply lack.

I don’t expect Palmer to come back & be the answer (and by the way, those saying he was great with Afobe, they only ever played 5 games together) but he is a squad option we don’t currently have.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

The reality is Swansea clearly aren’t going to buy him from us, we are currently having to put 5 or 6 under 23 players on the subs bench, so he has to come back, not to make a big difference or to go straight into the side but to give us another option that with so many others long term injured we simply lack.

I don’t expect Palmer to come back & be the answer (and by the way, those saying he was great with Afobe, they only ever played 5 games together) but he is a squad option we don’t currently have.

I’d at least give him the run of games afforded to other players....but he has to be fit.

[Sheltons Army]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I was thinking the same earlier.

I think we both saw the game the other week where he looked like he’d put a bit of timber on.  That’s a worry.

I still think he’s a talent.  He probably needs to grow-up.  He’s about to have a second child, can’t keep running away on loan.  Maybe it will dawn on him.

I’m not writing him off, yet.

Assuming we take him back and as a substantial investment we try again to utilise him

How would you try and use him Dave , any thoughts ?

 

My red alarm bell with him is that he will have had good quality coaching at Chelsea , he’s been under Wagner, Mowbray , Johnson and now Holden & His lieutenants , and now Cooper     And yet he looks like he’s rarely played 11 a side football as part of a team

None of the above have found a way of using him or finding / justifying a place for him and thats alarming

Ive said before , in moments he looks way too good for the Championship , but that’s all it is and the his basic game and the downside makes him an absolute luxury atm , and a detrimental pick from a side point of view

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Assuming we take him back and as a substantial investment we try again to utilise him

How would you try and use him Dave , any thoughts ?

 

My red alarm bell with him is that he will have had good quality coaching at Chelsea , he’s been under Wagner, Mowbray , Johnson and now Holden & His lieutenants , and now Cooper     And yet he looks like he’s rarely played 11 a side football as part of a team

None of the above have found a way of using him or finding / justifying a place for him and thats alarming

Ive said before , in moments he looks way too good for the Championship , but that’s all it is and the his basic game and the downside makes him an absolute luxury atm , and a detrimental pick from a side point of view

It’s a tough one.

I’ve said often enough that I don’t think he’s lazy, but he’s poor defending w/o the ball.  You can’t just say that everyone has to compensate for that because you’ll get resentment.  But if he tries, and you build up his fitness / stamina by steadily introducing him then I think he has a fair bit to offer.

In an ideal world you’d play him between the midfield and forward lines.

I don’t need him coming deep.  He’s strong enough to have the ball into feet back to goal and he’s technically good enough to roll his man off either side and bring others into play.  But other players need to stop shirking responsibility by not always playing through him too.  I’m not saying he’s blameless, but I’ve seen others give him the ball in ridiculous tight spots rather make a decision themselves....because he will always show for the ball.  He then loses it and he’s the scapegoat.

In terms of systems you can’t just say he’s the no10 in a 4411 or a 3412 or whatever.  You’ve got to consider how he will partner other players in say splitting the defenders when they try to play out from the back, without doing endless doggies (same for all players).

Sat here tonight I’d probably want slightly different personnel available, but I don’t have that luxury.  At a push if the current fit players were not showing fatigue I’d probably be looking at a front 6 of:

Massengo | Bakinson | Nagy

               Palmer | O’Dowda

                        Wells

But that is reliant on us playing a high line and Hunt and Rowe playing higher than normal too, otherwise when Palmer has to push onto the left back (or if fluid it’s right back), he’ll get passed around unless Hunt and Massengo can work as a three.  All very theoretical though.

If I had the right personnel I might be tempted to go 4141 and then he could play in any of the four “midfield roles”, but ideally in one of the two central ones.  My 4141 is really a forward 4 and a striker.  I see it being fairly similar to how we played in 17/18, where it was:

                               Pack

Brownhill | Paterson | Smith | Bryan

                               Reid

That forward 4, sometimes it felt fire 460, 4420 with Pato’s fluidity, was pushed on by Pack and squeezed the life out of teams trying to build out from the back, forcing them longer where we had 4 centre-backs.

So, something like the above.  I think Williams would help massively in either system too.

But, ultimately, unless you’re willing to flush £3.5m and £1m p/a in wages down the drain for another two and a half years I’d be trying to my hardest to find a way of getting the best out of him....but I’d be sure to point out someone else (MA and LJ) signed him twice and on both occasions didn’t play him, so I’d not take any flak for not turning his career around.

 

[Sheltons Army]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s a tough one.

I’ve said often enough that I don’t think he’s lazy, but he’s poor defending w/o the ball.  You can’t just say that everyone has to compensate for that because you’ll get resentment.  But if he tries, and you build up his fitness / stamina by steadily introducing him then I think he has a fair bit to offer.

In an ideal world you’d play him between the midfield and forward lines.

I don’t need him coming deep.  He’s strong enough to have the ball into feet back to goal and he’s technically good enough to roll his man off either side and bring others into play.  But other players need to stop shirking responsibility by not always playing through him too.  I’m not saying he’s blameless, but I’ve seen others give him the ball in ridiculous tight spots rather make a decision themselves....because he will always show for the ball.  He then loses it and he’s the scapegoat.

In terms of systems you can’t just say he’s the no10 in a 4411 or a 3412 or whatever.  You’ve got to consider how he will partner other players in say splitting the defenders when they try to play out from the back, without doing endless doggies (same for all players).

Sat here tonight I’d probably want slightly different personnel available, but I don’t have that luxury.  At a push if the current fit players were not showing fatigue I’d probably be looking at a front 6 of:

Massengo | Bakinson | Nagy

               Palmer | O’Dowda

                        Wells

But that is reliant on us playing a high line and Hunt and Rowe playing higher than normal too, otherwise when Palmer has to push onto the left back (or if fluid it’s right back), he’ll get passed around unless Hunt and Massengo can work as a three.  All very theoretical though.

If I had the right personnel I might be tempted to go 4141 and then he could play in any of the four “midfield roles”, but ideally in one of the two central ones.  My 4141 is really a forward 4 and a striker.  I see it being fairly similar to how we played in 17/18, where it was:

                               Pack

Brownhill | Paterson | Smith | Bryan

                               Reid

That forward 4, sometimes it felt fire 460, 4420 with Pato’s fluidity, was pushed on by Pack and squeezed the life out of teams trying to build out from the back, forcing them longer where we had 4 centre-backs.

So, something like the above.  I think Williams would help massively in either system too.

But, ultimately, unless you’re willing to flush £3.5m and £1m p/a in wages down the drain for another two and a half years I’d be trying to my hardest to find a way of getting the best out of him....but I’d be sure to point out someone else (MA and LJ) signed him twice and on both occasions didn’t play him, so I’d not take any flak for not turning his career around.

 

Ta for the interesting and explained thoughts - food for thought 

Totally  agree about him coming deep - I’d ideally want %75 of touches  in the final third 

And agree about him needing to operate centrally  - playing him wide in any system bit of a ‘ half decision ‘ for me

My concern with him in a central role in say a 4-1-4-1 is his discipline and out of possession work - he leaves a hole in there , although I accept you have that extra protection in front of the back four

A 4-5-1 with him ‘spare’ free in the 5 could gives us that security ?

 

My thoughts about playing him high , and discussing with him the thought of a role as genuine ‘second striker’ was a combination of

Relieving him of the defensive responsibility - he doesn’t have to do doggies , or press -  especially if we use a medium or low block - Drop off , fill a hole and save his energies and efforts for the attacking threat 

(Accepting he can see a run and execute a killer ball , and you lose a bit of that playing him high ) Get as much of his involvement as high up the pitch as possible where firstly he can do more damage with his technical ability and where it’s less important if we surrender possession - I wouldn’t want him on the ball in our half 

There is no doubt he has some excellent tricks and skills , and the ability to go past people - and my major worry as an opposition manager / player would be him with the ball at his feet around and in the box.

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Ta for the interesting and explained thoughts - food for thought 

Totally  agree about him coming deep - I’d ideally want %75 of touches  in the final third 

And agree about him needing to operate centrally  - playing him wide in any system bit of a ‘ half decision ‘ for me

My concern with him in a central role in say a 4-1-4-1 is his discipline and out of possession work - he leaves a hole in there , although I accept you have that extra protection in front of the back four

A 4-5-1 with him ‘spare’ free in the 5 could gives us that security ?

 

My thoughts about playing him high , and discussing with him the thought of a role as genuine ‘second striker’ was a combination of

Relieving him of the defensive responsibility - he doesn’t have to do doggies , or press -  especially if we use a medium or low block - Drop off , fill a hole and save his energies and efforts for the attacking threat 

(Accepting he can see a run and execute a killer ball , and you lose a bit of that playing him high ) Get as much of his involvement as high up the pitch as possible where firstly he can do more damage with his technical ability and where it’s less important if we surrender possession - I wouldn’t want him on the ball in our half 

There is no doubt he has some excellent tricks and skills , and the ability to go past people - and my major worry as an opposition manager / player would be him with the ball at his feet around and in the box.

 

 

 

Yes, the higher he plays the less chance of threading balls through centrally, but if you recall Weimann’s roll and slide ball to Hunt for our first goal of the season v Exeter that’s an area where he can create in a different way.  But it requires high full-backs.

And this isn’t really a system built around Palmer, it’s a system that allows me to get players around a single striker, because although I’d always like 2 strikers I think a team like City will rarely have the personnel to do that with conflicting / over-compensating elsewhere.

The 4141 - whole team pivots around the single CM. If Hunt bombs, then Vyner becomes a half RB, half CB, Kalas shuffles across and Rowe tucks in.  The 4 midfield / forwards play wherever the ball is within reason.  For me that’s the real distinction between a 4411 and “my” 4141.  My key player is my 1xCM, not my no10 / SS.

I’d be after a new RB, someone like Nyambe or Spence.

I actually think I could get a tune out of Diedhiou as one of my striker options too.

All wishful thinking though!!

[marcofisher]

He would be great if he had a two with good movement in front of him. Unfortunately, Martin certainly doesn’t offer that, and needs players moving around him.

Palmer behind Weimann and Wells would have been the best compliment I feel, but that has been taken away from us.