Kasey Palmer

[mossey]

11 hours ago, MATT BCFC said:

I think for Palmer to be a success he would need to play as a number 10 with a number 9 with decent movement and pace in front of him. 

Wasn't a coincidence that his form went out the window when Afobe got injured last season. 

 

I think people tend to forget this, and his form when Afobe here, but that’s City for you, we sign players, then somehow either don’t play them in their favourite position, or use them and make the most of their ability. Think Wells is another one like this, the list I’d endless, how many players can people think we’ve done this to.?

[The hand of RO'D]

34 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Always thought this signing was odd.

Appeared to be one of MAs/SLs  ‘bonus buys’. In LJs defence don’t think he was particularly fussed about getting him. Didn’t overly impress on loan and was definitely not a ‘busy bee’. Strange one.

Only chance, if he returns, is if he can develop a few playing partnerships (attacking and defence) with some in the squad. Had the makings of that with Afobe. 

The Club are next to useless at building partnerships, so I don’t hold out much hope.

 

100%. As I’ve documented on here before, this was all about saving face with Chelsea after we agreed to buy him in the year we had him on loan. All MAs doing.

[Numero Uno]

We've just got to get the best out of him between now and the end of the season and then decide what do with him from there. I think the club were trying to be reasonable to players who were unlikely to feature and look after player welfare but with the injuries we've got it would be plain stupid to continue that approach. Palmer will probably be involved in every matchday squad until the end of the season and as bad or lazy as you think he might be he is a considerably better player and will produce more (even if more is not really enough for us fans) at Championship level than say Sam Bell, no disrespect whatsoever to Sam who is clearly a young lad on an upward learning curve and would benefit hugely from a League 2/National League loan.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, The hand of RO'D said:

100%. As I’ve documented on here before, this was all about saving face with Chelsea after we agreed to buy him in the year we had him on loan. All MAs doing.

From what I was told, this was a player LJ wanted.  That’s from someone who is a pretty strong defender of any LJ criticism.

[Sheltons Army]

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

From what I was told, this was a player LJ wanted.  That’s from someone who is a pretty strong defender of any LJ criticism.

Well..... that doesn’t fit the narrative......!! 
 

You’re not playing fair

 

 

[The hand of RO'D]

43 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

From what I was told, this was a player LJ wanted.  That’s from someone who is a pretty strong defender of any LJ criticism.

Not to debunk your information Dave but you only have to look at the way LJ treated Palmer to see that isn’t the case

[Loco Rojo]

4 minutes ago, The hand of RO'D said:

Not to debunk your information Dave but you only have to look at the way LJ treated Palmer to see that isn’t the case

But then you could say the same about how he got rid of Wright and the comments he made of him. Complete contrasts.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

I think Palmer could shine if he returns.  With no Weimann (and presumably no Paterson) there’s a strong case for using our presently limited resources to build a team around him.  Can’t see we’ve got much to lose, and I can see Palmer rising to the challenge.  We know he’s a skilful, but maybe what he needs is to feel valued and important.  Something like:

                Bentley

        Viner Kalas Mawson

Hunt Bakinson Nagy Pring

                 Palmer

             Martin Wells

...might work quite nicely.  And would give us Moore, Rowe, Massengo, Semenyo and Diedhiou in the wings.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I suppose in that shape Vyner can support Hunt by pulling wider as and when, defensively moreso if anything.

Mawson in the lineup?? Is there good news on that front. As we know he can step into midfield, carry it, distribute it more easily than other centre backs here. That'd be a significant boost on several levels.

Pring is younger than Rowe, more natural in that position but still fear 2 v 1 on the left. Crowded central areas mitigate vs that.

I suppose I'm just somewhat cautious!

Martin I fear is in danger of being run into the ground but this break could do all the players some good, especially if quite a few are rested v Portsmouth.

Martin and Wells worked earlier in the season after all and in theory, Palmer slotting through to Wells with Martin as a pivot has potential.

[steviestevieneville]

It was a mess. We signed szmodics & Palmer but also had pato. To save blushes , pato had to on loan because they couldn’t be seen to be admitting a mistake . Szmodics , adelukan , Eisa not even given a chance . Absolute shambles really 

[Red-Robbo]

12 hours ago, Simon79 said:

Personally think that’s a bit of a myth with Palmer, I actually felt his work rate wasn’t bad, he did hassle & close down. Maybe his positional sense was of at times or his stamina faded, but for me he did hassle & close down. I’d play him in a 3-5-2 as the furthest forward of the middle 3, with two security players behind him. COYR

 

I don't think it was his work rate that let him down. 

I think his problem is, if he doesn't instantly see a killer pass, he lingers statically on the ball and is then easily dispossessed by advancing opponents.  Only Massengo loses the ball more cheaply than Palmer of our current players.

Palmer has the capacity to make killer, defence-splitting passes.

To be more useful requires coaching: players need to learn to make themselves more available to Palmer. He's a distributor. He isn't a natural goalscorer in himself; secondly, Kasey himself needs to be a bit better on the ball. He often seems blind to the danger around him as he tries to figure out what to do with the ball. I'd like him to dribble it forward a lot more. 

Like a lot of our players, Palmer seems reluctant to run with the ball. It's all about, receive it/get rid of it. The football is a hot potato. This has been the Lee Johnson method. It was how he operated as a player and his legacy still permeates the side. 

[E.G.Red]

42 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I think Palmer could shine if he returns.  With no Weimann (and presumably no Paterson) there’s a strong case for using our presently limited resources to build a team around him.  Can’t see we’ve got much to lose, and I can see Palmer rising to the challenge.  We know he’s a skilful, but maybe what he needs is to feel valued and important.  Something like:

                Bentley

        Viner Kalas Mawson

Hunt Bakinson Nagy Pring

                 Palmer

             Martin Wells

...might work quite nicely.  And would give us Moore, Rowe, Massengo, Semenyo and Diedhiou in the wings.

 

Having no crowds to get on Palmers back may work in both his and our favour.

[RedRock]

45 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I think Palmer could shine if he returns.  With no Weimann (and presumably no Paterson) there’s a strong case for using our presently limited resources to build a team around him.  Can’t see we’ve got much to lose, and I can see Palmer rising to the challenge.  We know he’s a skilful, but maybe what he needs is to feel valued and important.  Something like:

                Bentley

        Viner Kalas Mawson

Hunt Bakinson Nagy Pring

                 Palmer

             Martin Wells

...might work quite nicely.  And would give us Moore, Rowe, Massengo, Semenyo and Diedhiou in the wings.

 

But therein lies our continual problem.

The central midfield doesn’t exist/function.

Nobody in the middle of the park with any support, dictating play, acting as team leader, breaking up opposition play.

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

From what I was told, this was a player LJ wanted.  That’s from someone who is a pretty strong defender of any LJ criticism.

Hmmm....not for me. LJ barely played KP in his first loan spell, never really spoke that highly of him, and then completely axed him from the setup after he signed on a permanent deal. I'm sure LJ was keen on the idea of a fully fit, fully committed KP, however the reality is that KP lacks important attributes required of a top-end Championship footballer. His concentration levels and desire to help defend on behalf of the team are substandard, and personally I think he'll struggle to carve out a career at this level, unless something fundamentally changes. 

[swanker]

48 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

  Only Massengo loses the ball more cheaply than Palmer 

Really! What, even more than Pato? Sometimes I’ve watched him give the ball to opposition players and have wondered if he was doing on purpose? 
Remember Ipswich at home a couple of seasons ago? That performance was unbelievably bad!

[WECANDO]

16 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I don't have high hopes for Palmer or any of the returning loanees tbh- but I hope to be proven wrong.

Suggest Pring might be one.

[Mr Popodopolous]

47 minutes ago, RedRock said:

But therein lies our continual problem.

The central midfield doesn’t exist/function.

Nobody in the middle of the park with any support, dictating play, acting as team leader, breaking up opposition play.

Nagy had a decent run of games, Bakinson is young and will have peaks and troughs.

Walsh and Williams would surely provide an improvement. I'd suggest those two and one of the other 3 dependent on form, fitness, opposition etc.

I don't think a two will work. Certainly not if we want to take the game to the opposition, in a possession based, higher line game.

[Swede]

It must be said that we paid the fee for Palmer (not Swansea) so believed in him then.

Despite what other posters have said LJ waxed lyrical about him after Brum away last season likening him to "Glenn Hoddleque" with some of his passing.

Of course he has to put in the workrate but it's up to the coaching staff to get the formation and system right to get the best out of his undoubted talents.

As with all of the recalled loanees the coaching staff need to positively integrate them back in the fold otherwise what's the point.

Make no mistake Palmer is a quality player and the type of player that will take us to the next level.

Adelakun was second only to Jack Marriott in the stats before we signed him. I am not sure why it hasn't worked out for him so far (I can only think of homesick) but again he has another opportunity to carve out a career here and again it's up to the coaching staff to get the best out of him.

[Sheltons Army]

26 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Hmmm....not for me. LJ barely played KP in his first loan spell, never really spoke that highly of him, and then completely axed him from the setup after he signed on a permanent deal. I'm sure LJ was keen on the idea of a fully fit, fully committed KP, however the reality is that KP lacks important attributes required of a top-end Championship footballer. His concentration levels and desire to help defend on behalf of the team are substandard, and personally I think he'll struggle to carve out a career at this level, unless something fundamentally changes. 

Surprising then how LJ made cooing noises towards the end f his loan spell

’If I could have Kasey for a full pre season ‘ etc
 

Got him , played him , went off him ,left him out.....

Some of the deflection and defences of Johnson , whilst everything is pointed at Ashton is cringeworthy tbh 

[Roger Red Hat]

7 minutes ago, Swede said:

Make no mistake Palmer is a quality player

Consistently failed to prove it. I see no reason to state he is a 'quality player'.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

17 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Is this confirmed?  Pring’s recall is on the official site, but not Palmer.

Is obafemi Martins still playing? 

 

 

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Consistently failed to prove it. I see no reason to state he is a 'quality player'.

Talented - yes

Quality Player - Nowhere near atm IMHO , 5 Club spells , and yet to prove so

 

He certainly doesn’t justify having‘ a side built round him’’

[old_eastender]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I don't think it was his work rate that let him down. 

I think his problem is, if he doesn't instantly see a killer pass, he lingers statically on the ball and is then easily dispossessed by advancing opponents.  Only Massengo loses the ball more cheaply than Palmer of our current players.

Palmer has the capacity to make killer, defence-splitting passes.

To be more useful requires coaching: players need to learn to make themselves more available to Palmer. He's a distributor. He isn't a natural goalscorer in himself; secondly, Kasey himself needs to be a bit better on the ball. He often seems blind to the danger around him as he tries to figure out what to do with the ball. I'd like him to dribble it forward a lot more. 

Like a lot of our players, Palmer seems reluctant to run with the ball. It's all about, receive it/get rid of it. The football is a hot potato. This has been the Lee Johnson method. It was how he operated as a player and his legacy still permeates the side. 

What utter rubbish, typical of those that seem to hate Massengo. HNM rarely gives the ball away cheapily, and unlike many others always makes himself available. On all his recent outings he has seen far more of the ball than any other City player, despite being played out of position. Meanwhile, Bakinson was a disgrace against Luton, but once again hapless Holden hauls HNM off!

[Red-Robbo]

10 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

What utter rubbish, typical of those that seem to hate Massengo. HNM rarely gives the ball away cheapily, and unlike many others always makes himself available. On all his recent outings he has seen far more of the ball than any other City player, despite being played out of position. Meanwhile, Bakinson was a disgrace against Luton, but once again hapless Holden hauls HNM off!

 

I'd say Han-Noah is pushed off the ball more easily than an eight-year-old girl.  He often falls over when this happens, which has won us a number of useful free kicks.

His footwork is great and he brings other things to the party - I don't "hate" him - but when it comes to physical strength to hold off a challenge, he hasn't got it. Yet.

With Palmer, the issue isn't strength. He stands around with the ball at his feet, scanning for a good pass, and lets the ball be taken off his feet by an opponent.

[Bassomylord]

16 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

What utter rubbish, typical of those that seem to hate Massengo. HNM rarely gives the ball away cheapily, and unlike many others always makes himself available. On all his recent outings he has seen far more of the ball than any other City player, despite being played out of position. Meanwhile, Bakinson was a disgrace against Luton, but once again hapless Holden hauls HNM off!

Should've gone to specksavers.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, swanker said:

Really! What, even more than Pato? Sometimes I’ve watched him give the ball to opposition players and have wondered if he was doing on purpose? 
Remember Ipswich at home a couple of seasons ago? That performance was unbelievably bad!

 I guess there's something of a competition among City players for that negative accolade!

With Pato, it's misplaced passes though. Is he particularly bad, or does he just make more passes, a number of which go spectacularly wrong, but as a percentage of passes made are more not completed than others? I dunno. One of our stattos could tell us.

My point with Palmer is he is often dispossessed when he has the ball. When he makes a pass, it's usually telling. 

 

[downendcity]

6 minutes ago, Bassomylord said:

Should've gone to specksavers.

Is that a sort of delicatessanoptometrist where you go to have smoked pork belly fitted. 

[KegCity]

5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I'd say Han-Noah is pushed off the ball more easily than an eight-year-old girl.  He often falls over when this happens, which has won us a number of useful free kicks.

His footwork is great and he brings other things to the party - I don't "hate" him - but when it comes to physical strength to hold off a challenge, he hasn't got it. Yet.

With Palmer, the issue isn't strength. He stands around with the ball at his feet, scanning for a good pass, and lets the ball be taken off his feet by an opponent.

Harsh. Post lockdown looked a much stronger player than the 18 year old that first arrived. If he keeps working on strength and conditioning, as well as actually gets a game in his position, he'll be fine. 

Palmer needs outlets to give the ball to. He gets tackled when his game is slowed down by a lack of runners and he then has to turn (usually by 180 degrees) to find an option. Thats when you lose the ball, so yes he does lose the ball often, equally he's on the ball often and needs options to play those balls in behind to. He's got plenty to work on don't get me wrong, but like other players needs a run of games to properly understand his role in the team and which runs other players like to make. We've seen glimpses of his quality, just needs to be more consistent, which is more likely to come from opportunities rather than cameos.

[Bassomylord]

1 minute ago, downendcity said:

Is that a sort of delicatessanoptometrist where you go to have smoked pork belly fitted. 

Something like that.

29 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

What utter rubbish, typical of those that seem to hate Massengo. HNM rarely gives the ball away cheapily, and unlike many others always makes himself available. On all his recent outings he has seen far more of the ball than any other City player, despite being played out of position. Meanwhile, Bakinson was a disgrace against Luton, but once again hapless Holden hauls HNM off!

massengo is crap.

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Harsh. Post lockdown looked a much stronger player than the 18 year old that first arrived. If he keeps working on strength and conditioning, as well as actually gets a game in his position, he'll be fine. 

Palmer needs outlets to give the ball to. He gets tackled when his game is slowed down by a lack of runners and he then has to turn (usually by 180 degrees) to find an option. Thats when you lose the ball, so yes he does lose the ball often, equally he's on the ball often and needs options to play those balls in behind to. He's got plenty to work on don't get me wrong, but like other players needs a run of games to properly understand his role in the team and which runs other players like to make. We've seen glimpses of his quality, just needs to be more consistent, which is more likely to come from opportunities rather than cameos.

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said there.

HNM has the skills to develop into a very tidy player. He isn't, and will probably never be IMO, a defensive midfielder. But he can still make things happen further up the field. I think it's a good thing that he's with us. The extra physicality required for the English second flight will come.

As for your second par: this is very much what I was saying. Players need to be on the same wavelength as KP and that won't come from giving him 30 minute cameos every now and again.  At the same time, I'd like Kasey himself to be a bit less static at times. Try to take the ball off the feet of a running player and you risk a foul. Robbing a static one is like taking candy from a baby for some of the better players in this division.