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Kasey Palmer


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I don't know why everyone is getting in a lather about Palmer. He's almost certain to pick up an injury in training this week and be out for a fortnight. Subsequently Holden will announce that he has had several setbacks and will be out for the rest of the season.

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kp when with benik was great,they had a good partnership on the field as well as off, I think with the benik injury plus the personal business of benik loss of a child it hit kp quite hard as it would any of us.as you can see with wells tweet this will give a lift to the players and i hope bring some confidence back, there is no doubt kp has quality but must be played in the right position,who knows he could come back and be are new jacki and wells might turn into are new andy cole.

i can only dream

 

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12 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The media dept is so cringe, they'll no doubt have a crush on Palmer the same way they've had crushes on Bakinson, Semenyo, Paterson and Kalas. 

Surprised you'd say this Phileas, thought you really enjoyed their content ?

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42 minutes ago, aa_bcfc said:

Sorry mate it’s true. LJ and Ashton both said that was the case publicly while I was in attendance. I’ve no reason to believe they were lieing. 

No need to apologise. I just don’t believe it is true. LJ talked about ‘club signings’ when he was here. I think that meant signings the club made not him.  He was told to tow the party line and was paid handsomely for it.  

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9 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

No need to apologise. I just don’t believe it is true. LJ talked about ‘club signings’ when he was here. I think that meant signings the club made not him.  He was told to tow the party line and was paid handsomely for it.  

That was my view as well but when asked LJ the direct question ‘who has the last say on signings’ he replied that in a football sense he does but from a ‘whose paying for it sense’ the Lansdowns have the absolute final say. 

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8 minutes ago, aa_bcfc said:

That was my view as well but when asked LJ the direct question ‘who has the last say on signings’ he replied that in a football sense he does but from a ‘whose paying for it sense’ the Lansdowns have the absolute final say. 

Yes he was towing the line.  Would be a bit weird if he towed it only up to the point of being asked a direct question on it. 

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I'm seeing so many people say Palmer is a waste of money and a terrible signing and yet when he went from a loanee from Chelsea to a permanent signing he was hailed as a great signing. Don't get me wrong, if he's cost us as much as it would seem he has it's not been great value at all but this whole being angry at the club for signing him at a time when everyone said they wanted him to sign seems unfair. 
In my opinion Palmer has the same issue as Wells does for us, we don't play to his strength. When you look at the players we've had that have gone on to really shine at other clubs you only need to look at the reasons they've shone elsewhere and that's because the club uses them to their strengths. Wells is a striker who finishes great chances that are created by defence splitting passes or balls in behind the defence... the same passes we just don't play! Go back and look at his goals for QPR, he makes dangerous runs off of the defenders that allows creative players to play him in, we simply do not do that and so he's not as potent for us.
This brings me on to Palmer, his strength is being in the middle, behind the front men and playing those balls that Wells is screaming out for. He's also good at getting into the box in dangerous situations and causing problems but being as we play a style that doesn't utilise this type of player we never have seen the best out of him.

So, all of this said my issue isn't with Palmer, it's with our coaching staff (again). We had LJ and he was learning on the job and even with all of his time here he was still experimenting which is why we saw so many players shine and then suddenly look average, because he changed how we played so frequently. Now we have his understudy who I thought after his statements of intent would be looking to do his own thing and yet we're still playing a formation that doesn't work without a very solid midfield which we don't have. We continue to use Wells as a striker who needs to get onto crosses or simple passes to feet which is not his game, we continue to expect Palmer to play like a box to box midfielder when he does play despite the fact he's better off being given a more advanced role where he can do what he does best. 
Holden and our staff in general continue to try and force players to play the tactics that they want to play despite the fact that these players are not suited to it. I want to see Holden replaced with a manager/coach who can look at what we have, come up with a formation and tactics set that suits the player that we have and then sign players to fill the spots where we're lacking in that formation/tactic set. There is a reason experience in management continues to be a big desire from the bigger clubs. 
People may mock Forest for being in 19th under Hughton but look at their last 5 results, unbeaten... 2 wins and 3 draws and that's before he's even had the chance to implement his style or sign the players he wants and that is what we're missing, a manager/coach who can make the most of what we have. Right now many fans would say Holden was the better choice as we're 10th and Forest are 19th but over the last 5 games our form matches Rotherham who are 23rd.

I think we have an a talented squad that could be very strong with the right signings, our issue is that we're not performing any where near our potential. Even when we were getting the results before so many injuries we were not playing good football and we were pushing our luck, it's about time we had someone who can get us playing football where we look capable of controlling a game rather than trying to nick it.

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12 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm seeing so many people say Palmer is a waste of money and a terrible signing and yet when he went from a loanee from Chelsea to a permanent signing he was hailed as a great signing. Don't get me wrong, if he's cost us as much as it would seem he has it's not been great value at all but this whole being angry at the club for signing him at a time when everyone said they wanted him to sign seems unfair. 
In my opinion Palmer has the same issue as Wells does for us, we don't play to his strength. When you look at the players we've had that have gone on to really shine at other clubs you only need to look at the reasons they've shone elsewhere and that's because the club uses them to their strengths. Wells is a striker who finishes great chances that are created by defence splitting passes or balls in behind the defence... the same passes we just don't play! Go back and look at his goals for QPR, he makes dangerous runs off of the defenders that allows creative players to play him in, we simply do not do that and so he's not as potent for us.
This brings me on to Palmer, his strength is being in the middle, behind the front men and playing those balls that Wells is screaming out for. He's also good at getting into the box in dangerous situations and causing problems but being as we play a style that doesn't utilise this type of player we never have seen the best out of him.

So, all of this said my issue isn't with Palmer, it's with our coaching staff (again). We had LJ and he was learning on the job and even with all of his time here he was still experimenting which is why we saw so many players shine and then suddenly look average, because he changed how we played so frequently. Now we have his understudy who I thought after his statements of intent would be looking to do his own thing and yet we're still playing a formation that doesn't work without a very solid midfield which we don't have. We continue to use Wells as a striker who needs to get onto crosses or simple passes to feet which is not his game, we continue to expect Palmer to play like a box to box midfielder when he does play despite the fact he's better off being given a more advanced role where he can do what he does best. 
Holden and our staff in general continue to try and force players to play the tactics that they want to play despite the fact that these players are not suited to it. I want to see Holden replaced with a manager/coach who can look at what we have, come up with a formation and tactics set that suits the player that we have and then sign players to fill the spots where we're lacking in that formation/tactic set. There is a reason experience in management continues to be a big desire from the bigger clubs. 
People may mock Forest for being in 19th under Hughton but look at their last 5 results, unbeaten... 2 wins and 3 draws and that's before he's even had the chance to implement his style or sign the players he wants and that is what we're missing, a manager/coach who can make the most of what we have. Right now many fans would say Holden was the better choice as we're 10th and Forest are 19th but over the last 5 games our form matches Rotherham who are 23rd.

I think we have an a talented squad that could be very strong with the right signings, our issue is that we're not performing any where near our potential. Even when we were getting the results before so many injuries we were not playing good football and we were pushing our luck, it's about time we had someone who can get us playing football where we look capable of controlling a game rather than trying to nick it.

Some of us thought he was poor on loan and didn’t want him to sign permanently. Many hailed him as a great signing the same that Wells was too. Both one dimensional players 

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I like KP, but felt last time he had some time in the side it was like he was trying to hard to impress, going back and picking the ball from defense, where he would then get caught and look a mug. As said on another thread, I think we need 1 upfront (Wells) with KP and Semenyo behind, and KP told not to go back and pick up balls from our defenders, that's Nagy or Bakinsons role. With movement up front by Wells and Semenyo making runs, I think we will see the best of KP again and maybe some entertaining football.

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17 hours ago, JonDolman said:

 

Put him wide left in a 433 where we have seen Wells play. He'd have more time on the ball then against most opponents as he's in a wide area of the pitch where usually there is a bit more space and time on the ball.

But he can also drift in field into central areas. Not a bad idea at all. I don't think he'd protect the left back brilliantly, but he may not need to.

The left of the 3 central midfielders can do that a lot as they shift across and Semenyo can be a more disciplined winger the other side. 

I was thinking the same: that system would be OK for Palmer (not solid enough to play as CM) but also for Adelakun (probably better as RW than in the RM position), and let us alternate Wells and Martin as CF (while Fammy returns fit).

Then bringing in a good defensive midfielder on loan would give the attacking players (Palmer included) more freedom.

If/when Baker and Mawson will be back, we could return to a back three,adding a player in  midfield.

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I spent some time last night watching back some of the games early last season after Nagy got injured, when it was Brownhill, Massengo and Palmer in midfield.  Brownhill played as the more restrictive midfielder with Massengo and Palmer less responsible.  In some respects it was a bit like the “6 and two 8s”, but neither Massengo or Palmer are similar to Weimann and Paterson.

I watched the Stoke (a) and Derby (a) and the fluidity between the three...and also Afobe and Weimann was really quite good.  What struck me wasn’t the obvious Palmer passing ability that we know he can do (hit and miss at times last season), but the constant availability to receive passes from Brownhill and Massengo. Massengo never / rarely got caught in possession in those early games, because every time he looked up, Palmer had made an angle to receive.  Often Palmer had found little spaces between the lines.  What I didn’t see either was Palmer trying to do too much, because players were making runs off of him.

It was a very different midfield to what we’ve seen more lately.  Even the little (what appear pointless) give and goes we’re actually progressing us up the pitch too.

Defensive shape was ok too.

I totally get why some posters have their view, they are right in many of their observations, but I don’t think you have to build a team around him to get the best of him....but as a team we need better and more movement, and less hiding behind players.

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9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Genuinely waiting for the moment one of players gets ruled out after being struck by a falling piano. Or an anvil...

Come on LB now your getting ridiculous.

That’s about as likely as a player being ruled out after being struck by a falling barbecue!

:) 

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55 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I spent some time last night watching back some of the games early last season after Nagy got injured, when it was Brownhill, Massengo and Palmer in midfield.  Brownhill played as the more restrictive midfielder with Massengo and Palmer less responsible.  In some respects it was a bit like the “6 and two 8s”, but neither Massengo or Palmer are similar to Weimann and Paterson.

I watched the Stoke (a) and Derby (a) and the fluidity between the three...and also Afobe and Weimann was really quite good.  What struck me wasn’t the obvious Palmer passing ability that we know he can do (hit and miss at times last season), but the constant availability to receive passes from Brownhill and Massengo. Massengo never / rarely got caught in possession in those early games, because every time he looked up, Palmer had made an angle to receive.  Often Palmer had found little spaces between the lines.  What I didn’t see either was Palmer trying to do too much, because players were making runs off of him.

It was a very different midfield to what we’ve seen more lately.  Even the little (what appear pointless) give and goes we’re actually progressing us up the pitch too.

Defensive shape was ok too.

I totally get why some posters have their view, they are right in many of their observations, but I don’t think you have to build a team around him to get the best of him....but as a team we need better and more movement, and less hiding behind players.

Interesting Davefevs, thanks, we are crying out for anything / anybody which enables us to move the ball forward and in your words will progress us up the pitch. I agree KP can assist as he finds space and pockets which can break the lines and on occasions lead to a matching winning pass e.g. at the death at home to Carlton last season, when KP pinged a superb ball to Josh B. However, the main concern I have is that KP is also a liability in that he can too easily be dispossessed, doesn’t instinctively defend or track back when needed. Which sticks out like a sore thumb and tends to leave him looking like a nice to have but not a critical team player.

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5 hours ago, jayjay said:

I don't know why everyone is getting in a lather about Palmer. He's almost certain to pick up an injury in training this week and be out for a fortnight. Subsequently Holden will announce that he has had several setbacks and will be out for the rest of the season.

Part one of your vision is complete. I'm awaiting the long Covid announcement in a fortnight. 

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21 minutes ago, Coppello said:

 

Part one of your vision is complete. I'm awaiting the long Covid announcement in a fortnight. 

Knowing our luck, they will discover that KP has a new, 3rd variant of Covid ( The Welsh virus) that is even more virulent.

Not only will KP be unable to play for the next 3 months , but because it is so virulent, it will be discovered that all of the senior squad and coaching staff have been infected and will be required to quarantine for at least 2 months, so that we are forced to play the U21s for the rest of the season.

The alternative would be forfeiting games, but the club argue that as we’ve done that for much of the last 6 weeks we are not prepared to do so any longer!

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1 hour ago, Jerseybean said:

Interesting Davefevs, thanks, we are crying out for anything / anybody which enables us to move the ball forward and in your words will progress us up the pitch. I agree KP can assist as he finds space and pockets which can break the lines and on occasions lead to a matching winning pass e.g. at the death at home to Carlton last season, when KP pinged a superb ball to Josh B. However, the main concern I have is that KP is also a liability in that he can too easily be dispossessed, doesn’t instinctively defend or track back when needed. Which sticks out like a sore thumb and tends to leave him looking like a nice to have but not a critical team player.

All fair observations too.  With KP you get what I posted and what you’ve posted. ?

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