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Forest lose yet again.


Paul Cheesey

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I don’t think you can make the comparison. With City he would have inherited a different set of players and a better run club. The true test is what he does  over the long term, provided he’s given time 

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8 minutes ago, Paul Cheesey said:

Anyone still wish we'd got Hughton in?

Yep me, I think he’d do far better with us than with Forest if he was given the same support and backing that LJ received. Very much felt like the final piece or the jigsaw in my opinion and a chance missed. 

I’m more than happy to be proved wrong though and have been pleasantly surprised by our start under Holden but far too early to judge at this stage. 

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2 minutes ago, Globe Trotter said:

Yep me, I think he’d do far better with us than with Forest if he was given the same support and backing that LJ received. Very much felt like the final piece or the jigsaw in my opinion and a chance missed. 

I’m more than happy to be proved wrong though and have been pleasantly surprised by our start under Holden but far too early to judge at this stage. 

I don’t think you’d be ‘proved wrong’ if Dean Holden was suddenly successful.

You’d only ever be proved wrong if Hughton was appointed and failed.

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54 minutes ago, Globe Trotter said:

Yep me, I think he’d do far better with us than with Forest if he was given the same support and backing that LJ received. Very much felt like the final piece or the jigsaw in my opinion and a chance missed. 

I’m more than happy to be proved wrong though and have been pleasantly surprised by our start under Holden but far too early to judge at this stage. 

Indeed. I still personally feel he would of been a great fit for us to be honest. 

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1 hour ago, Globe Trotter said:

Yep me, I think he’d do far better with us than with Forest if he was given the same support and backing that LJ received. Very much felt like the final piece or the jigsaw in my opinion and a chance missed. 

I’m more than happy to be proved wrong though and have been pleasantly surprised by our start under Holden but far too early to judge at this stage. 

What makes you think he would of got that support? Times are very different now with football finances being all over the place & clubs at threat of going out of business & I’m sure this is part of the reason why Hughton wasn’t given the job & DH was.

Hughton kept being reported as saying that he could do something at Bristol City if there was investment made but that was never likely to happen because of the reasons listed above, he seemingly had little interest in working with what we had here & had already made his mind up that he was going to be bringing players in. DH on the other hand knew what was already here & who would be coming back from loans to join the squad.

And what was one of the first things Hughton did when he joined Forest? He signed Knockhaert from Fulham on loan despite him already having a huge squad to work with at Forest & them already having signed 13 new players in the summer!!

City were never going to be looking to invest huge amounts in the squad yet that is exactly what Hughton was expecting despite the current financial climate! January should be interesting at Forest & the potential damage caused by that could be long lasting!

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2 hours ago, Paul Cheesey said:

Anyone still wish we'd got Hughton in?

Yes, definitely. An experienced and successful Manager at this level with a lot of contacts v someone with virtually non existent experience and coming out of a failed regime. A regime he was a big part of.

With Hughton It would've propelled the club to the next level on and off the pitch. 

DH may not have the direct experience of a head coach but he was around and coaching with LJ as his assistant for long enough.

Skilful players like Morrell and Palmer offloaded whilst Walsh and Williams are injured. 

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Pointless argument really. Different managers achieve different things at different clubs.  If Holden fails then the Hughton fans will say we should have got him.  If Hughton fails at forest then others will say that proves we shouldn’t have got him.

We will never know what Hughton would have achieved here. Could have taken us up or could have really struggled.  

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I think Hughton is a very good manager but I never saw him as the right fit for us. I didn't think his style of football would suit our players, that he was the best person to bring thorough young talent and I don't think his philosophy matched the club's. I think him not getting the role was probably the best decision for both parties. The jury is out on Holden of course, although he has done well on the whole so far, but - even if Holden struggles - that doesn't necessarily mean Hughton would have succeeded.

However I think it is harsh in the extreme to judge Hughton on his record so far. For a start, it's not that bad given Forest's form this season and at the end of last. Secondly he is a manager who needs time to impose his ideas and philosophy. I'm glad the club didn't appoint him, because appointing a big name manager who doesn't fit what you are trying to do is both a lazy route and one that seldom ever works. But I do think Forest have made the right appointment and that he does suit their style of football and I hope he gets the time to succeed. 

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1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

What makes you think he would of got that support? Times are very different now with football finances being all over the place & clubs at threat of going out of business & I’m sure this is part of the reason why Hughton wasn’t given the job & DH was.

Hughton kept being reported as saying that he could do something at Bristol City if there was investment made but that was never likely to happen because of the reasons listed above, he seemingly had little interest in working with what we had here & had already made his mind up that he was going to be bringing players in. DH on the other hand knew what was already here & who would be coming back from loans to join the squad.

And what was one of the first things Hughton did when he joined Forest? He signed Knockhaert from Fulham on loan despite him already having a huge squad to work with at Forest & them already having signed 13 new players in the summer!!

City were never going to be looking to invest huge amounts in the squad yet that is exactly what Hughton was expecting despite the current financial climate! January should be interesting at Forest & the potential damage caused by that could be long lasting!

:fingerscrossed:

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2 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

What makes you think he would of got that support? Times are very different now with football finances being all over the place & clubs at threat of going out of business & I’m sure this is part of the reason why Hughton wasn’t given the job & DH was.

Hughton kept being reported as saying that he could do something at Bristol City if there was investment made but that was never likely to happen because of the reasons listed above, he seemingly had little interest in working with what we had here & had already made his mind up that he was going to be bringing players in. DH on the other hand knew what was already here & who would be coming back from loans to join the squad.

And what was one of the first things Hughton did when he joined Forest? He signed Knockhaert from Fulham on loan despite him already having a huge squad to work with at Forest & them already having signed 13 new players in the summer!!

City were never going to be looking to invest huge amounts in the squad yet that is exactly what Hughton was expecting despite the current financial climate! January should be interesting at Forest & the potential damage caused by that could be long lasting!

Superb post. Personally I don't want us to go back to the days where a new manager would overhaul the team and then, when he got sacked a year later, a new manager would overhaul the team again and the previous manager's signings would play for the reserves whilst costing us a bomb in wages, or be sold at a loss just to get them off the wage bill. That approach got us relegated and, had SL's pockets not been as deep as they were, we could easily have been in real financial peril. 

Hughton is a very good manager but it is utterly foolish for any club - bar perhaps one in serious relegation peril - to spend a fortune bringing in a manager who wants to spend a fortune overhauling the squad simply because the club decided to go for a big name as a shortcut instead of thinking about what sort of manager the players actually needed. 

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2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Pointless argument really. Different managers achieve different things at different clubs.  If Holden fails then the Hughton fans will say we should have got him.  If Hughton fails at forest then others will say that proves we shouldn’t have got him.

We will never know what Hughton would have achieved here. Could have taken us up or could have really struggled.  

Or do what so many of our Managers have: Neither.

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3 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

What makes you think he would of got that support? Times are very different now with football finances being all over the place & clubs at threat of going out of business & I’m sure this is part of the reason why Hughton wasn’t given the job & DH was.

Hughton kept being reported as saying that he could do something at Bristol City if there was investment made but that was never likely to happen because of the reasons listed above, he seemingly had little interest in working with what we had here & had already made his mind up that he was going to be bringing players in. DH on the other hand knew what was already here & who would be coming back from loans to join the squad.

And what was one of the first things Hughton did when he joined Forest? He signed Knockhaert from Fulham on loan despite him already having a huge squad to work with at Forest & them already having signed 13 new players in the summer!!

City were never going to be looking to invest huge amounts in the squad yet that is exactly what Hughton was expecting despite the current financial climate! January should be interesting at Forest & the potential damage caused by that could be long lasting!

I didn’t explain myself very well - I meant support in terms of being given the time and public backing LJ received rather than throwing money at him. 

Clearly finances play a part and it’s understandable we need to be more prudent in the current climate. I believe if Hughton was given 3/4 years and the backing to build a team in his identity it could have been exciting especially with his ability to potentially attract higher calibre players and to work with the very promising squad we already have. 

Given Hughton’s success at this level I think he should be entitled to expect a certain level of commitment from the board (with some compromise given the current situation) and I think Knockhaert would improve any championship team. 
 

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10 minutes ago, Globe Trotter said:

I didn’t explain myself very well - I meant support in terms of being given the time and public backing LJ received rather than throwing money at him. 

Clearly finances play a part and it’s understandable we need to be more prudent in the current climate. I believe if Hughton was given 3/4 years and the backing to build a team in his identity it could have been exciting especially with his ability to potentially attract higher calibre players and to work with the very promising squad we already have. 

Given Hughton’s success at this level I think he should be entitled to expect a certain level of commitment from the board (with some compromise given the current situation) and I think Knockhaert would improve any championship team. 
 

But Hughton wanted that financial backing from the start, he wouldn’t of taken the job without it & I believe that is why it took so long to finally appoint DH because Hughton wasn’t willing to accept minimal transfer funds.

SL is trying to run us as prudently as possible but wanting guarantees on what funds would be available wasn’t something the club were willing to do. I’m sure Hughton would of taken over as soon as the club agreed to his demands other wise.

I guess in an ideal world Hughton might of been appointed but I still think the club would of had doubts about giving anybody substantial funds when they weren’t even willing to evaluate the squad that was already here. And part of that is down to how our squad is perceived, we don’t have any star players that have cost £10m+ or potential 20+ goal scoring strikers yet those in charge make the noises that they want promotion, to those outside the club (and a lot of our supporters) those ambitions are way above realistic, you only have to look at how the pundits & bookies rated us before the season started to see that. So how could Hughton walk in & turn us into realistic promotion candidates? By spending money on players he knows.

For me, any new manager expecting to walk into a new job & expect substantial funds is being unrealistic unless they find a club that are willing to risk everything like a Forest or Derby. Not even Norwich, Watford or Bournemouth really spent any money despite selling millions of pounds worth of players because of the current situation & as I said, Hughton walked into Forest & despite them signing 13 players in the month or so before he arrived, he needed to have Knockhaert in who is rumoured to be on over £30k p/w (although Fulham could be paying some of that), and this despite Forest having numerous wide midfielders / wingers! How is that being financially prudent?

I’m glad we didn’t appoint Hughton, there is no knowing what mess he could of left the club in if he was put in charge & yes, maybe he could of got us promoted but the odds on it pointed towards that being unlikely, throwing money at the situation doesn’t guarantee anything, as Forest, Derby, Wednesday, Stoke & Birmingham amongst others & I would much rather our club was here for decades to come & wasn’t spending years dealing with league fines & point deductions because of one man’s needs.

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I personally wanted Hughton and felt let down when we didn’t get him. The club is ready to push for promotion and like every other fan, I had the expectation that we would bring in a proven manager that we could be genuinely confident in. Hughton ticked those boxes.

 

For whatever reason, we didn’t go for Hughton and that’s a detail which was decided in the clubs recruitment process rather than Hughton’s ability. Perhaps he didn’t impress at interview, perhaps he wanted to spend more than the club were wanting to.
 

I will hold my hands up and admit that I was less than impressed at the Holden appointment, I didn’t see him as an upgrade on LJ and thought he was a gamble. I questioned whether we’d be able to attract quality players.

 

I must say, as much as I felt let down at the time, Holden has done a fantastic job so far and we look well drilled, we’ve attracted some quality signings and Holden is doing a good job integrating the younger, up and coming players into the squad.

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