Jump to content
IGNORED

The Lee Johnson Thread (Merged)

Never to the dark side

By Never to the dark side
in Football Chat

Recommended Posts

Lrrr

Lrrr

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I was more inviting him to counter on the Sunderland forum, I understand I’ve been harsh but I have quantified by saying there are those of us who do like him. 

But I take your point... it is however very hard to be positive about something you’re very passionately against!

If you’ve ever listened to the show I’d love to hear you do a Fighting Talk’s defend the indefensible version of ‘Lee Johnson was harshly let go and should have been given more time and resources at Bristol City’

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Robbored

Robbored

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It’s a bit like when dear @Robbored takes it upon himself to sign up to a Sheffield Wednesday forum to talk about how he rates Barry Bannan and then give a general slightly inaccurate analysis. 

According to my detractors pretty much everything I post is inaccurate.............:dunno:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JamesBCFC

JamesBCFC

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That’s what I take issue with. There’s plenty of valid criticism to give LJ and it was right that he went.

What is a bit disappointing is the lack of objectivity in analysis provided by clearly intelligent posters. As you’ve highlighted here. 

Sometimes I feel criticism of Johnson goes beyond what’s reasonable for a football manager that none of us know personally. It seems almost personal and I find that quite strange. 

I was always baffled by people using the fact that he was a pretty average player as a point to criticise him with. Holden had a less successful playing career than LJ as a player but you don’t see it mentioned!

I get that you're mostly using me as an example, but I am far less pro-LJ than Fordy is anti-LJ.

I've said the following multiple times over the past 4 years, but while I respect @Fordy62, I think he is incredibly OTT with his criticisms.

There is plenty of valid criticism that can be aimed at Johnson, but my view is that his overall time here was marginally more positive than negative. 

However, I was/am more vociferous with my defense of LJ than I actually feel, because I will argue against what I see as OTT criticisms and try to counter those points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I was more inviting him to counter on the Sunderland forum, I understand I’ve been harsh but I have quantified by saying there are those of us who do like him. 

But I take your point... it is however very hard to be positive about something you’re very passionately against!

I can understand your point of view when you explained the reasoning behind it, history with Cotterill etc. To your credit you have been 100% consistent in your views on Johnson from his appointment. 

Whilst I don't agree 100% with your views on Johnson, I think the majority of the criticisms you've made there are valid but in my view to a lesser degree and you've chosen not to credit Johnson for things that he probably does deserve props for. I think though that your post was partly extra harsh to wind Riaz up!

Given the range of views on Johnson, it's hard for there to be an accepted narrative.. if I was to have a stab at it though I get the impression most fans agree on the following:

  • He was fortunate to get the job in the first place
  • He was given lots of time, lots of money and lots of leeway given his personal history with the Lansdown family
  • His management speak is a bit irritating and often he over spoke allowing lots of things he's said to be taken out of context to be used as simplistic soundbites against him  ("Europe in 5 years", "X amount of transfer windows", "measuring grass"). Regardless of the context of what he was saying, they'll only be remembered by many as the soundbite.
  • He was lucky to keep his job during the losing runs.
  • He struggled managing 'big name' players/tricky characters.
  • His 'busy bee' preferred style of midfielder didn't capture the imagination of supporters.
  • Lots of dud signings which indicated some sort of disconnect in the scouting/Ashton/Johnson's transfer dealings.
  • He had lots of his best players sold, many of which were irreplaceable.
  • He developed some great players and sold them on for big profit.
  • He helped cement us as a competitive Championship side.
  • The cup run was fantastic, Man United at home will be remembered for years to come.
  • We were very good in patches away from home.
  • At times, our general football was great. The Reid/Paterson combination in 17/18 before it fell apart.
  • He was a good man who can never be accused of not being committed and genuinely cares about the club. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I get that you're mostly using me as an example, but I am far less pro-LJ than Fordy is anti-LJ.

I've said the following multiple times over the past 4 years, but while I respect @Fordy62, I think he is incredibly OTT with his criticisms.

There is plenty of valid criticism that can be aimed at Johnson, but my view is that his overall time here was marginally more positive than negative. 

However, I was/am more vociferous with my defense of LJ than I actually feel, because I will argue against what I see as OTT criticisms and try to counter those points.

Yes apologies for singling you out, I was trying to think of an intelligent regular poster who has a close to opposite view. You were the first name that popped up. Was just using you to illustrate a point though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

They had just gone on something like a 6 game winning streak and were within touching distance of the playoffs, so that is still a playoff fight, regardless of what the specific position was.

If (and this is taking it to an extreme to labour the point) you have 1st to 12th separated by 3 points in February, would you say the team in 10th aren't in the title race because they didn't win in November? Of course you wouldn't.

Average at worst was what I said, I am not pretending he was a phenomenal manager, if you tried reading my post fully you would have seen that, instead of glossing over that to make exaggerated criticisms.

 

Try and respond with a degree of honesty next time, I'm actually shocked that @Davefevs gave that post a like, as he isn't usually a blinkered poster.

I like posts for a manner of reasons, the actual content, being well written even if I disagree, I like certain bits of it, etc etc.  I give out lots of likes....the joy of paying my £5.

At the end of the day there are posts on here supportive of LJ and I’ve liked them, there are posts dissing him, I’ve liked them too.

Best to read a person’s posts to get a feel for them rather than the emojis they use.  So don’t be surprised if I like posts that you might think don’t reflect me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
grifty

grifty

Posted
Posted

Wow, had a quick read on their forum and he is hated more by Sunderland fans than most of the fans on here!

Also, a fair few. have never even heard of him? I reckon I've heard of at least 95% of league managers, even just their name or from their playing career. Looks like they are still stuck in their wannabe prem bubble.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 

  • He was fortunate to get the job in the first place
  • He was given lots of time, lots of money and lots of leeway given his personal history with the Lansdown family
  • His management speak is a bit irritating and often he over spoke allowing lots of things he's said to be taken out of context to be used as simplistic soundbites against him  ("Europe in 5 years", "X amount of transfer windows", "measuring grass"). Regardless of the context of what he was saying, they'll only be remembered by many as the soundbite.
  • He was lucky to keep his job during the losing runs.
  • He struggled managing 'big name' players/tricky characters.
  • His 'busy bee' preferred style of midfielder didn't capture the imagination of supporters.
  • Lots of dud signings which indicated some sort of disconnect in the scouting/Ashton/Johnson's transfer dealings.
  • He had lots of his best players sold, many of which were irreplaceable.
  • He developed some great players and sold them on for big profit.
  • He helped cement us as a competitive Championship side.
  • The cup run was fantastic, Man United at home will be remembered for years to come.
  • We were very good in patches away from home.
  • At times, our general football was great. The Reid/Paterson combination in 17/18 before it fell apart.
  • He was a good man who can never be accused of not being committed and genuinely cares about the club. 

 

Perfect summary for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bristol Oil Services

Bristol Oil Services

Posted
Posted

Where we can perhaps largely agree about Lee, is, in the words of @Merrick's MarvelsMedicine, he was "a bit of a tit." I don't see much dispute or debate about that.

So, in short for any Sunderland fans browsing: you got yerselves a bit of a tit.  

Which doesn't necessarily mean he won't be successful. It just means he will be a tit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pillred

pillred

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Northern Red said:

l think this thread is proof that, for a small minority, their dislike of Johnson goes beyond simply not rating him as a player or manager and finding him a bit cringeworthy into something far more personal, to the point where they actively would have hated to see him be successful here.

All a bit weird really.

Personally I think this some on here would love LJ to fail is total nonsense though I admit maybe come the end some were hoping for ONE really bad result that would see him removed from the job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, grifty said:

Wow, had a quick read on their forum and he is hated more by Sunderland fans than most of the fans on here!

Also, a fair few. have never even heard of him? I reckon I've heard of at least 95% of league managers, even just their name or from their playing career. Looks like they are still stuck in their wannabe prem bubble.

Think the fact that Poyet was apparently nailed on last week until something happened hasn’t made them happy..

They are a huge club, far bigger than many in The Prem, let alone the Championship, but are struggling to come to terms with the fact now they are shite, failing to beat the blue few & Burton at home so far.

I am sure like every forum they have their share of the deluded, but if he gets them winning & scoring goals (which even at the third tier they struggle to do) they will take to him then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Thanks, a complex one. Most managerial tenure's are a bit easier to sum up. It will be interesting to see what reception Johnson gets if/when he ever manages a team that plays us. Hopefully a decent one. 

I have said before I didn’t warm to him, but it is wrong to exclude what he did that was good (Reid, Brownhill) & only mention the bad..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, CodeRed said:

Dean Holden's is 53% ?

Fab. If he keeps that up for 217 games we'll be up the top of the PL.

However, you can't really compare someone whose been at the helm for just over 20 games to someone with such a comparatively long career. You also need to factor in that Holden took over when we were a decent mid-to-higher table side, whereas we were in the relegation zone and a Championship/L1 yo-yo side when LJ was appointed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • The title was changed to sunderland manager gone - LJ now confirmed.
cidercity1987

cidercity1987

Posted
Posted

Good luck to him. Bit of a risk if he doesn't get them promoted but surely also a good opportunity to become a PL manager as no doubt they'll be back before we get there.

Not sure a working class club is the right fit for his personality but I don't understand the Sunderland fans negativity. Massive step up from Parkinson and definitely better than the Cowleys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sheltons Army

Sheltons Army

Posted
Posted

He irritated the **** out of me but I wish him luck and Sunderland fans have suffered enough so I hope he gets them up

Although I think he overrates himself and needs to get some basics right I think he’s probably more of a understandable appointment than their new director of football who has spent the last 12 years in charge of Birmingham’s academy

Will be something very interesting to watch - I’d be shocked if he can’t get them in the top 6 at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RedM

RedM

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Good luck to him. Bit of a risk if he doesn't get them promoted but surely also a good opportunity to become a PL manager as no doubt they'll be back before we get there.

Not sure a working class club is the right fit for his personality but I don't understand the Sunderland fans negativity. Massive step up from Parkinson and definitely better than the Cowleys.

He certainly won’t get the time and the patience he got here. Sunderland have had some big name managers in the past, but that’s just it, the past. Chatting to their fans up there when we played them they were sure they wouldn’t be in the Championship long, but I really don’t think they expected League One.

They weren’t arrogant.I thought they, like the area, were run down and needed investment and leadership. I don’t think LJ brings leadership. He is good when things are going well but doesn’t inspire when it’s backs against the wall as it’s always someone else fault. And as I said I’m saying this as someone who quite liked him.

To be fair, we were a big club for him if you consider he was previously at Oldham and Barnsley before arriving. Would he have been appointed by us without previous connections? Very much doubt it. I believed he genuinely had affection for us though.

He has no connection with Sunderland, or they with him. Maybe that will help as much as hinder him?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...