Leaning To One Side Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Northern Red said: Seeing as we haven't got a game on the 19th, maybe we should have a Cotts v LJ matchday thread? Wonder if LJ will blank Cotts after the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 12 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said: Go on then ill play with you. Josh Brownhill Lloyd Kelly I was gonna reply but then @Davefevs and @Fordy62 replied to your post with pretty much the same sort of stuff I’d have put forward - so I’ll let their views stand and apologise that I can’t “ play with you” ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 57 minutes ago, CodeRed said: Me too, as I do with the Gas....to see (& hope) they've lost. Perfect weekend- watch City win and see that Rovers ( and now Sunderland ) have lost. Petty? maybe ......but years of Johnsonball and Johnsonbullshit does encourage a bit of schadenfreude. That is really weird. It’s one thing to want him to succeed elsewhere, that’s just good grace to me. To want him to FAIL at a club that isn’t in the same league or remotely a rival.. bizarre behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 24 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Seems like a really nice guy and he’s really passionate about that he does. Would mean a lot to him to have a promotion on his CV. He did a lot for this club whether people realise it or not No, he's a bullshitting fraud, won nothing - achieved nothing, after 8 years in management his average finishing position is 13th. He may well be a nice guy and really passionate but it's a results business and he can't deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 22 hours ago, And Its Smith said: Took over Oldham in the relegation zone and saved them from going down comfortably. Followed that up with a solid season and then had them top half before joining Barnsley. Saved us from relegation and then improved us every season bar the last, whilst developing players and having to sell his best ones. A cup run that will be remembered forever. A long list of players who have improved massively under his management. An important part of the job nowadays if clubs are to try to break even. All of those things are achievements in my opinion. He wouldn’t keep getting jobs at bigger clubs than his last either if they weren’t. Fair enough, I appreciate the response ... I’m not sure there’s a ‘long list of players who have improved massively under his management’ - a long list suggests ten or more? Which players do you mean? And whilst I’d agree that he seems to get jobs at bigger clubs each time - I think that’s more to do with him impressing boards, chairpersons and owners at interviews with his cut and paste leadership textbook stuff ... then when he gets in front of the players, they probably haven’t got a clue what he’s talking about ... but I appreciate the debate - it’s certainly an interesting one ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, CodeRed said: No, he's a bullshitting fraud, won nothing - achieved nothing, after 8 years in management his average finishing position is 13th. He may well be a nice guy and really passionate but it's a results business and he can't deliver. So what? Why do you want him to fail? Pretty childish considering he gave his all for this club and clearly loves it. Not sure why you are so bitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Fair enough, I appreciate the response ... I’m not sure there’s a ‘long list of players who have improved massively under his management’ - a long list suggests ten or more? Which players do you mean? And whilst I’d agree that he seems to get jobs at bigger clubs each time - I think that’s more to do with him impressing boards, chairpersons and owners at interviews with his cut and paste leadership textbook stuff ... then when he gets in front of the players, they probably haven’t got a clue what he’s talking about ... but I appreciate the debate - it’s certainly an interesting one ... They clearly understood enough to pick up some impressive results. I think he was guilty of over coaching and ultimately lost his way and forgot what made him successful. The list would be players mentioned earlier in this thread. Reid, Brownhill etc. Plus Korey said he helped him a lot at Oldham. He improved James Wilson a lot there as well. Not sure about Barnsley to be honest. He’s clearly a good one on one coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: They clearly understood enough to pick up some impressive results. I think he was guilty of over coaching and ultimately lost his way and forgot what made him successful. The list would be players mentioned earlier in this thread. Reid, Brownhill etc. Plus Korey said he helped him a lot at Oldham. He improved James Wilson a lot there as well. Not sure about Barnsley to be honest. He’s clearly a good one on one coach. Is he? Clearly? That’s my earlier point Dave....what about the ones who didn’t improve, some went backwards. He’s not been consistent in many things. It’s a shame, good at some things, and in some cases bad at others and some things a mix of good and bad at some things at the same time. He’s brilliantly, uselessly inconsistent! Maybe he’s got one method, that works with some players but not others. We’ve all worked with bosses that can teach you some things but not others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Just now, And Its Smith said: So what? Why do you want him to fail? Pretty childish considering he gave his all for this club and clearly loves it. Not sure why you are so bitter. Not bitter at all, he's gone and rightly so - I just don't get the love in. He was given objectives, didn't meet them and was let go, the same as SOD, McInnes, Millen, I'm sure he loved the club as he loved Oldham - quote when he was at Oldham ""I love the club, the new contract extension makes me feel valued by the owner and the board. I know I will get it right and that I will be given time to do that, at what is a fantastic club". And he loved Barnsley too, quote from when he was at Barnsley ""I love this place. I hope I am going to be here for a long time because I want to deliver what everyone wants," Johnson told BBC Radio Sheffield. I'm sure he loves Sunderland as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinny Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: They clearly understood enough to pick up some impressive results. I think he was guilty of over coaching and ultimately lost his way and forgot what made him successful. The list would be players mentioned earlier in this thread. Reid, Brownhill etc. Plus Korey said he helped him a lot at Oldham. He improved James Wilson a lot there as well. Not sure about Barnsley to be honest. He’s clearly a good one on one coach. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Barnsley_F.C._season His Barnsley team was STACKED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Got to say that his interview that was on here on Twitter....goodness, that took me back to a point,driving away from AG ,that I never want to be again. It is utter bollocks. Anyway, nothing against Lee, he tried dammed hard, and I respect that. Goes to show now that DH was part of the problem - ‘breath of fresh air’ ? Chickens coming home to roost, as most on here,that understand the game suspected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 22 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Is he? Clearly? That’s my earlier point Dave....what about the ones who didn’t improve, some went backwards. He’s not been consistent in many things. It’s a shame, good at some things, and in some cases bad at others and some things a mix of good and bad at some things at the same time. He’s brilliantly, uselessly inconsistent! Maybe he’s got one method, that works with some players but not others. We’ve all worked with bosses that can teach you some things but not others. It’s not a one size fits all Dave. Some players will improve and some won’t . As fans we will never truly know but can read into things and surmise. We all do it on many subjects. I go a lot on what players say and there are w fair few that have commented on his coaching and how he made them better players. its not all down to the coach if a player improves but it will have a lot to do with it. Apologies if I haven’t replied to some of your posts. Busy times and I don’t want to reply to your lengthy ones with a 1-2 liner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: It’s not a one size fits all Dave. Some players will improve and some won’t . As fans we will never truly know but can read into things and surmise. We all do it on many subjects. I go a lot on what players say and there are w fair few that have commented on his coaching and how he made them better players. its not all down to the coach if a player improves but it will have a lot to do with it. Apologies if I haven’t replied to some of your posts. Busy times and I don’t want to reply to your lengthy ones with a 1-2 liner! That’s fine Dave. Exactly....some players improvement will be down to their own hard graft, some will be down to the coach, some will be both. Some won’t, some don’t hit it off with their bosses, some bosses don’t hit it off with their staff. As I’ve said (honestly) before, I think he’s mixed, but I have some bias on the negative side because of the David Brent-like persona. It’s stupid really...I’ve met the guy a couple of times (outside of football) and I think he’s a genuine bloke, but he struggles for that side of him to come out. In some respects his dad’s time here worked against him. He’s got a great chance to go well with Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 21 hours ago, Davefevs said: I don’t dispute players improved in his time here, but I will always play Devil’s advocate with two themes: how many were young and likely to improve anyway? what about the young ones that didn’t improve? I usually then ask how many older players improved under him? I think, just like every valid argument for LJ there is equally valid argument against. It’s like Newton’s Law of Motion / Management!!! Back to Kelly, you could argue he peaked under LJ, then went backwards under LJ. But it’s all subjective. I keep saying, he did some good stuff and he did some bad stuff. I think if he came across as more humble / with humility he wouldn’t be getting half the flak he does. It certainly tips the balance for me, and I fall on the negative side of middling. The big problem is that he is everywhere in the media spouting all of his theories on football management and he hasn’t exactly got the medals on his chest to back it up. I respect LJ’s quest to improve the game but so far it is all hypothetical he has no credibility as to the utility of it all. Warnock, for example, has proof of his efficacy. Achieve something in the game before lecturing everyone else otherwise it’s a bit embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 12 hours ago, And Its Smith said: He did a lot for this club whether people realise it or not With operating losses topping £30m a season for mid-table stasis, I think those who need to know realise WeeLee's lasting legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 LJ due on TalkSport with Jim White at some point before midday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Can we re-name this "The LJ Dustbin Thread"? As with the Gas you can then bag him to your hearts content and have a good laugh when he comes out with his latest "management speak" special (or in some cases fawn over him every time he gets a win).............. As far as I'm concerned he gave us an amazing half season a few years back and then two years of the most boring football I have ever witnessed at the Gate and has built a squad that is literally unable to perform any other way than sit behind the ball and counter whilst relying on individual moments rather than team play. That was his baby. You can bet seriously good money that Chris Hughton at his failed interview wanted to rip everything up and start again whereas (presumably) Dean Holden is prepared to try and change the style over a much longer period of time (and if anyone believes it won't take time doing it "Dean's Way" they are seriously kidding themselves) and take the flak coming his way in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 24 minutes ago, Robbored said: LJ due on TalkSport with Jim White at some point before midday. Thanks, wouldn't want to miss a rare chance to be spellbound by the great man availing the sporting public of his unrivalled footballing wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: Thanks, wouldn't want to miss a rare chance to be spellbound by the great man availing the sporting public of his unrivalled footballing wisdom. Well Jim White did say that Sunderland fans will like what LJ has to say............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Interesting article in the Athletic today about LJ and Sunderland. Written by George Caulkin ex northern football correspondant for the Times. A couple of good Johsonisms in there. (Look up the 3 c's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcredandwhite Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 There have been some Sunderland fans posting on a couple of the Bristol City forums that I subscribe to hoping to get our collective opinion on LJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red7 Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 12 hours ago, ScottishRed said: Got to say that his interview that was on here on Twitter....goodness, that took me back to a point,driving away from AG ,that I never want to be again. It is utter bollocks. Anyway, nothing against Lee, he tried dammed hard, and I respect that. Goes to show now that DH was part of the problem - ‘breath of fresh air’ ? Chickens coming home to roost, as most on here,that understand the game suspected. I agree with you re the utter painfulness of listening to LJ's interviews, and the effort LJ put in. But, with DH in place as manager, I'd have more than happily settled for 4 points off the top after 16 games (regardless of performances) at the start of the season. And that's not even taking into account the injuries to key players, which we've been unlucky with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 I think there is a big disconnect between how the media see him, and us Bristol city fans. The media laud him over the Man U game and the good footy for the first half of that season - us fans see the sheer inconsistency and turgid football pretty much all the time after. I think that is what polarizes opinion so much. With hindsight he should have gone earlier - this is why so many fans are quite harsh on him. I always said he would get a decent job, as he would interview well. If he fails at Sunderland he might become another manager in the wilderness, but i think he will do alright. Its quite brave of him to take such a big job actually, as they will demand he gets them promoted this season, but the club is a basket case. His reputation (in the media) would be damaged if he failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 44 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said: Interesting article in the Athletic today about LJ and Sunderland. Written by George Caulkin ex northern football correspondant for the Times. A couple of good Johsonisms in there. (Look up the 3 c's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Two or three early defeats and they will really take to that!! Nothing more than management waffle that can be easily translated into "layman" speak but doesn't quite sound as intelligent if you do so........the funny thing is that as soon as these bullshitters lose a few games it's straight onto blaming luck, injuries and the referee just like every other manager does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Coming up after news..............interesting to hear Simon Jordan views........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman_Stand Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 I was pro-LJ throughout his tenure here but do agree the time was right to make the change, I will repeat my view from his time here that when things are going well and the team are playing well then his soundbites and insight into the game comes across extremely well and sound very articulate and make him look like a star of the coaching world, however in periods where results are not going well (which happens at every club throughout every season) he should change his tact slightly to avoid the accusation of management waffle. I did find his post-Wigan comments very cringey particulalry the opening part about how he is speaking to three sets of people, its almost as if he feels the whole world is under his learning tree and he feels he has to constantly be educating people, it can come off as condescending which I don't believe he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark barton Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 If covered I apologise cant read through 14 pages. So lee has gone to Sunderland and good luck to him. So why has he constantly featured on the clubs news feed. Please lets move on it's old news unless he plans to take city players in Jan on loan or permanently. If you are short of news rather copy and paste from other sources cover some city in the community stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Well LJ made it sound if Sunderland really wanted him to take over..........no big surprise there. Simon Jordan reckoned that the Sunderland job is huge and hopes LJ is up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonburyRed Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Has Jamie Mac gone with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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