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The Lee Johnson Thread (Merged)


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46 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Lj was brilliant at picking and developing young players - too many to mention but to say he 'threw them under the bus' is simply incorrect. Semenyo is one of those he threw in-at Leeds when we lost. 

Lj is gone: we are unlikely to finish higher than he averaged but, for me, we should just accept DH is the guy we now support. Despite horror tactics(subs) yesterday, Lj also made a handful of mistakes in 4 yrs so let's get behind the manager and team on Wednesday to help beat Blackburn

‘Brilliant at picking and developing young players ‘

 

‘to say he 'threw them under the bus' is simply incorrect’
 



Someones been on the Sunday sherry..........

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10 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

he left us with a platform for someone else to come in and do so. 

I know I'm gonna get hammered for this, but O"Driscoll was the man who started building that platform for us as a club to be where we are now.

Before he came in we were, organisationally, an utter shambles from top to bottom and his time at the club was spent more on dragging the background stuff into a professional standard. Yes, the first team were awful, but he knew that he had to sacrifice results at the time for the good of the club in the future.

LJ and to some extent Cotterill benefited from the processes and systems that SOD put in place originally.

We've got a lot to thank him for IMO.

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10 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

See the difference with LJ and normal managers is that normal managers get the sack when they under perform. LJ didn’t. On several occasions. And that’s in stark contrast with the man who actually did deserve the backing. 

If LJ had been sacked when he first deserved to be, I don’t think I’d have any issue at all. His golden boy treatment while here leaves a very bitter taste. 

As is very obvious, I feel Cotts deserved better treatment. And whereas you might reasonably argue that at the end he may well have deserved the boot, LJ served up much worse in his time that deserved the same action. 

 

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1 hour ago, RED4LIFE said:

I know I'm gonna get hammered for this, but O"Driscoll was the man who started building that platform for us as a club to be where we are now.

Before he came in we were, organisationally, an utter shambles from top to bottom and his time at the club was spent more on dragging the background stuff into a professional standard. Yes, the first team were awful, but he knew that he had to sacrifice results at the time for the good of the club in the future.

LJ and to some extent Cotterill benefited from the processes and systems that SOD put in place originally.

We've got a lot to thank him for IMO.

I agree, I think most people give him credit for digging the foundations, and each manager after has benefitted from that and their predecessor.

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22 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Criticising an interview you didn’t watch even half of!

You don’t need to watch a whole LJ interview before you get bored of the cut and paste quotations from leadership text books and the other regurgitated bollox - he had zero achievements on his CV - but fair play to him for landing a job at a much bigger club than Bristol City - I wish him well ...

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Just now, BS4 on Tour... said:

You don’t need to watch a whole LJ interview before you get bored of the cut and paste quotations from leadership text books and the other regurgitated bollox - he had zero achievements on his CV - but fair play to him for landing a job at a much bigger club than Bristol City - I wish him well ...

Are the only achievements in football, promotions or cup wins? Can see why some would say it is but I’d certainly say not. 

At Oldham he achieved a fair bit as he did at City.  It might not list them on Wikipedia but to say he has achieved zero things in football is just wrong. 

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4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Are the only achievements in football, promotions or cup wins? Can see why some would say it is but I’d certainly say not. 

At Oldham he achieved a fair bit as he did at City.  It might not list them on Wikipedia but to say he has achieved zero things in football is just wrong. 

Fair play - good debate, what would list as LJ’s achievements as a football manager? Genuine question mate 

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4 hours ago, Lew-T said:

Mate, you’re making it out that some fans are making death threats towards LJ on this thread. 
 

Let it go.

Death threats??? 
Ummm....no. 
Just saying that some people are showing an irrational hatred. 
Actually, it CAN be rationalised. I’m pretty sure we all know what the reasons are. 
 

Oh, also, I don’t think it’s me that needs to let anything go. I’m not the one carrying the hate for a mediocre ex-manager. P’raps some others need to let it go. 

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2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Fair play - good debate, what would list as LJ’s achievements as a football manager? Genuine question mate 

Took over Oldham in the relegation zone and saved them from going down comfortably. Followed that up with a solid season and then had them top half before joining Barnsley. 

Saved us from relegation and then improved us every season bar the last, whilst developing players and having to sell his best ones. A cup run that will be remembered forever.

A long list of players who have improved massively under his management. An important part of the job nowadays if clubs are to try to break even. 

All of those things are achievements in my opinion.  He wouldn’t keep getting jobs at bigger clubs than his last either if they weren’t. 

 

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3 hours ago, RED4LIFE said:

I know I'm gonna get hammered for this, but O"Driscoll was the man who started building that platform for us as a club to be where we are now.

Before he came in we were, organisationally, an utter shambles from top to bottom and his time at the club was spent more on dragging the background stuff into a professional standard. Yes, the first team were awful, but he knew that he had to sacrifice results at the time for the good of the club in the future.

LJ and to some extent Cotterill benefited from the processes and systems that SOD put in place originally.

We've got a lot to thank him for IMO.

Absolutely.

He also brought in Fielding, Flint, Williams, Pack, JET and Wagstaff in his only transfer window at the club whilst shifting out some of the deadwood we had accumulated and at the same time was trying to give Bryan and Reid a chance in the squad. We just couldn't get the results and needed a tough Manager to do so in Cotterill.

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A good way to look at the ‘LJ was a rubbish manager for City’ debate is to state facts only (for and against) to prove or disprove the statement.  Must be facts not opinions.

 

For:

LJ didn’t get us promoted to the Prem.


 

Against:

3/4 seasons we improved our league position.

LJ had to sell best players every season.

LJ took us to League Cup semi final beating Man Utd in the process.

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4 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

A good way to look at the ‘LJ was a rubbish manager for City’ debate is to state facts only (for and against) to prove or disprove the statement.  Must be facts not opinions.

 

For:

LJ didn’t get anywhere near getting us promoted to the Prem despite unprecedented expenditure.

Bought a lot of good players, made them look rubbish and couldn’t make them play as a team.

Served up worst football at Ashton Gate since Tony Pulis.


 

Against:

3/4 seasons we improved our league position.

LJ had to sell best players every season.

LJ took us to League Cup semi final beating Man Utd in the process.

 

Edited by Fordy62
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17 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

A good way to look at the ‘LJ was a rubbish manager for City’ debate is to state facts only (for and against) to prove or disprove the statement.  Must be facts not opinions.

 

For:

LJ didn’t get us promoted to the Prem.


 

Against:

3/4 seasons we improved our league position.

LJ had to sell best players every season.

LJ took us to League Cup semi final beating Man Utd in the process.

FYI I ran out of time to think of any other ‘fors’ I’m not saying there aren’t any.  The biggest run of losses in our history is a for fact defo

Edited by Tinmans Love Child
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11 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

A good way to look at the ‘LJ was a rubbish manager for City’ debate is to state facts only (for and against) to prove or disprove the statement.  Must be facts not opinions.

 

For:

LJ didn’t get us promoted to the Prem.


 

Against:

3/4 seasons we improved our league position.

LJ had to sell best players every season.

LJ took us to League Cup semi final beating Man Utd in the process.

You’re overlooking the fact that LJ gradually morphed into his father and ended up serving up the same dismal and dreary stuff as his father had.

Up to then I was supportive of LJ, he had a tough job to achieve what SL expected but eventually lost his way. I remember leaving AG with the same feeling of ‘jeez’..........:facepalm: as I’d had under his father and that was it for me,

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16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You’re overlooking the fact that LJ gradually morphed into his father and ended up serving up the same dismal and dreary stuff as his father had.

Up to then I was supportive of LJ, he had a tough job to achieve what SL expected but eventually lost his way. I remember leaving AG with the same feeling of ‘jeez’..........:facepalm: as I’d had under his father and that was it for me,

I’m not overlooking that as it’s not a fact! 😂  The style of football is subjective, and I’m pretty sure it’s not actually possible to morph into your father! 😂

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47 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Well..... he achieved our biggest losing run in history, and have a feeling he did the same at either Oldham or Barnsley. 
So he deserves credit for that!

He sure did but there were some positives like the cup run and promotion. It is regret though he will always be sadly remembered at BS3 as a talker that came across what people wanted to hear and the manager that was at his genuine peak in the championship and couldn’t take us further. He wasn’t really a very good player either. Still ex city though so deserves some respect 

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12 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Lj was brilliant at picking and developing young players - too many to mention

Not sure many would agree, for every Lloyd Kelly there seems to be a Gustav Engval

but to say he 'threw them under the bus' is simply incorrect.

Taylor Moore , can't remember the game, but didn't he blame a 5-0 on Hörður  Magnússon, who had come on as sub at 2 or 3 ?

Semenyo is one of those he threw in-at Leeds when we lost. 

After a very good cameo at PNE along side Fam, he played him as a winger to squeeze him in the team. Not sure I'd give him much credit for that one when we probably had 3/4 genuine wingers at the club.

Lj is gone: we are unlikely to finish higher than he averaged but, for me, we should just accept DH is the guy we now support. Despite horror tactics(subs) yesterday,

Lj also made a handful of mistakes in 4 yrs

I wish it was a handful, no point discussing it though as I doubt anyone will agree on all the rights and wrongs. What I will say is there can be blame aimed at the Board and at the owner for pandering to hims whims over players. When we had Paterson and COD on the books did we sign Szmodics as a 10 , only to dive in for Palmer just because Swansea wanted him? He said many times he had last decision on transfers, so he has to accept blame as well as credit. 

so let's get behind the manager and team on Wednesday to help beat Blackburn

I've said many times recently, we cannot judge much by what we are seeing at the moment. Even with Kalas back and Bakinson on the bench, we had probably 4 starters missing, maybe more. The time to review Holden is after he's managed to get his first choice team on the pitch. At the moment it's trying to keep in touch until players come back.

What we are seeing at the moment, style wise, is pretty much what LJ was dishing out. Not pretty, not exciting, but picking up enough points to keep us interested. Even with the midfield pair out, there were signs the football was improving when Mawson (Holden signing) was playing. I hope our luck changes with players coming back soon. 3 MF's and a CB would make a massive difference to the squad balance.

 

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48 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You’re overlooking the fact that LJ gradually morphed into his father and ended up serving up the same dismal and dreary stuff as his father had.

Up to then I was supportive of LJ, he had a tough job to achieve what SL expected but eventually lost his way. I remember leaving AG with the same feeling of ‘jeez’..........:facepalm: as I’d had under his father and that was it for me,

Your obsession with Gary Johnson is reaching levels of concern. 

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1 hour ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

A good way to look at the ‘LJ was a rubbish manager for City’ debate is to state facts only (for and against) to prove or disprove the statement.  Must be facts not opinions.

 

For:

LJ didn’t get us promoted to the Prem.


 

Against:

3/4 seasons we improved our league position.

LJ had to sell best players every season.

LJ took us to League Cup semi final beating Man Utd in the process.

If we take it from the end of LJ’s first half season (15/16) to end of 18/19 (19/20s account not out, quite late for City):

  • Wagebill ⬆️ 10.4 to 17.7 (⬆️60%)
  • Amortisation (basically ongoing annual cost of transfers inward) ⬆️ 2.3 to 8.1 (⬆️252%)
  • Other Costs (not necessarily LJ) ⬆️ 6.0 to 10.4 (⬆️73%)

Those things above are the key drivers of why we make a loss, or in other words why we have to sell players.

Other things:

  • player trading (overall balance ins and outs) £13.6m ✅
  • Loss £14.3m ✅/⛔️ Depending on how you look at it.  You could argue that’s good to only lose that amount, or you could say it still requires SL to fund, and he could’ve used the money brought in better.

Will be interesting to see 19/20s accounts.  It wouldn’t surprise me if wagebill has doubled from 2016, and I expect amortisation to break £10m.

[all numbers taken from BCFC Ltd, not BC Holdings, as that includes Ashton Gate Ltd]

Edited by Davefevs
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Just now, TonyTonyTony said:

Go on then ill play with you.

Josh Brownhill

Lloyd Kelly

I don’t dispute players improved in his time here, but I will always play Devil’s advocate with two themes:

  • how many were young and likely to improve anyway?
  • what about the young ones that didn’t improve?

I usually then ask how many older players improved under him?

I think, just like every valid argument for LJ there is equally valid argument against.  It’s like Newton’s Law of Motion / Management!!! 😉

Back to Kelly, you could argue he peaked under LJ, then went backwards under LJ.  But it’s all subjective.

I keep saying, he did some good stuff and he did some bad stuff.  I think if he came across as more humble / with humility he wouldn’t be getting half the flak he does.  It certainly tips the balance for me, and I fall on the negative side of middling.

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t dispute players improved in his time here, but I will always play Devil’s advocate with two themes:

  • how many were young and likely to improve anyway?
  • what about the young ones that didn’t improve?

I usually then ask how many older players improved under him?

I think, just like every valid argument for LJ there is equally valid argument against.  It’s like Newton’s Law of Motion / Management!!! 😉

Back to Kelly, you could argue he peaked under LJ, then went backwards under LJ.  But it’s all subjective.

I keep saying, he did some good stuff and he did some bad stuff.  I think if he came across as more humble / with humility he wouldn’t be getting half the flak he does.  It certainly tips the balance for me, and I fall on the negative side of middling.

LJ also played Kelly out of position. He’s also probably the best player the academy has ever produced, so doesn’t get a load of credit from me for playing him tbh. Bournemouth even said they bought him off the back of performances for England u21s. 

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