The Lee Johnson Thread (Merged)

[Lrrr]

11 minutes ago, RonWalker said:

Good point. Does he lose credit for that because Lloyd was already in the U18s when LJ joined?

Some legit try to claim that LJ doesn't get credit because Lloyd spent 1 pre-season under Cotts.....

So Holden wouldn't get credit for all the lads who've joined 1st team training..... sure...

[CodeRed]

2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

You're obscenely OTT with the criticism of Johnson.

At Oldham he kept a side in dire financial difficulties up, and one of the seasons there had them fairly competitive. 

After he left they were relegated.

At Barnsley he had them in the playoff hunt and got them to the JPT final before leaving to join us.

 

Does that change that he hasn't been promoted? No.

Does it add some context to the rest? Yes.

With the context any reasonable person would come to the conclusion that he did a solid or decent job at Oldham, with what happened to them after backing it up.

Barnsley were probably expected to be fairly strong in League 1, so a playoff fight (where he left them) was about right, alongside reaching the JPT final (his last game was the semi final I believe) has to be seen as, at worst, average.

Is he a spectacular manager? Absolutely not, but "bullshitting fraud"? **** off.

Barnsley were 12th in L1 when Lansdown decided he was the man to lead BCFC to the premier League ( and the Europa League according to LJ himself). Barnsley had been sucked into the relegation contenders by virtue of an 8 game winless run in Nov/Dec that season.....so "a play off fight" is stretching it somewhat!  Heckinbottam got them up.

 

His coaching credentials and his track record ( average...your word) didn't warrant him being afforded the opportunity of managing a championship club with the ambition and (Lansdown's) resources to challenge for the Premier League.

He was a fraud because he continually talked himself up despite the paucity of his achievements - an actual quote in one of his interviews " If you give me a top 6 budget I'd walk the championship" 

If he'd concentrated on trying to build a team and a style of play that suited the players and ultimately fell short then I'd say thanks for the efforts and we move on, but his relentless bullshit, blaming of others, and continual bigging himself up with all the talk of Red Arrows, NHS, SAS, drones, Pep ( he brings up their 5 minute chat in EVERY interview as if to align himself on his level) and the narcissistic tendency to promote himself before he actually achieved any success put me off completely.  As I said in the thread the top managers don't do it, they don't need to.

 

 

 

[Olé]

@Mackem33 I was by no means an LJ fan but I've consistently said this and I'll say it to you - LJ gave me the best away days of my life. No idea if it was a fluke or if it's reproducable at Sunderland, but once he had a team he produced well organised, efficient, commanding away wins all over the country and in the Championship.

I've no idea if it's a record for us but it's easily the best run away I've known and at the highest level I have ever seen us. If he gets Sunderland going around the country, with your support (post-COVID), it'll spark something. Our problem was as good as he was away, we were vague and boring at home and when most people saw it.

He spins a bit and he's his own biggest fan - some of his comments pre and post match come across as him narrating his own biography or writing his own profile for the Guardian - and his record developing players has some minor revisionism, though in the main it's true, he has coached and sold players in the £10-20m bracket.

Be prepared to know what David Brent soundbites to filter and don't have any pre-conceived agenda against him (he had a lot of this at the extremes here) and he will only try to see you right. I was lucky enough to have my birthday last time we played in Sunderland and had a brilliant day in the Wheatsheaf, class fans to a man. 

 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Barnsley were 12th in L1 when Lansdown decided he was the man to lead BCFC to the premier League ( and the Europa League according to LJ himself). Barnsley had been sucked into the relegation contenders by virtue of an 8 game winless run in Nov/Dec that season.....so "a play off fight" is stretching it somewhat!  Heckinbottam got them up.

 

His coaching credentials and his track record ( average...your word) didn't warrant him being afforded the opportunity of managing a championship club with the ambition and (Lansdown's) resources to challenge for the Premier League.

He was a fraud because he continually talked himself up despite the paucity of his achievements - an actual quote in one of his interviews " If you give me a top 6 budget I'd walk the championship" 

If he'd concentrated on trying to build a team and a style of play that suited the players and ultimately fell short then I'd say thanks for the efforts and we move on, but his relentless bullshit, blaming of others, and continual bigging himself up with all the talk of Red Arrows, NHS, SAS, drones, Pep ( he brings up their 5 minute chat in EVERY interview as if to align himself on his level) and the narcissistic tendency to promote himself before he actually achieved any success put me off completely.  As I said in the thread the top managers don't do it, they don't need to.

 

 

 

They had just gone on something like a 6 game winning streak and were within touching distance of the playoffs, so that is still a playoff fight, regardless of what the specific position was.

If (and this is taking it to an extreme to labour the point) you have 1st to 12th separated by 3 points in February, would you say the team in 10th aren't in the title race because they didn't win in November? Of course you wouldn't.

Average at worst was what I said, I am not pretending he was a phenomenal manager, if you tried reading my post fully you would have seen that, instead of glossing over that to make exaggerated criticisms.

 

Try and respond with a degree of honesty next time, I'm actually shocked that @Davefevs gave that post a like, as he isn't usually a blinkered poster.

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, bris red said:

I feel for you to be honest. Never have i been more glad to see the back of a manager than i have Lee Johnson!

I could never say that. 

SOD; Pulis; Osman; McInnes; Lumsden; even poor old Tins all had me chomping at the bit for their removal.

With Johnson it was entirely right for him to go, but I can appreciate many of his good qualities as well. 

[Phileas Fogg]

7 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Some legit try to claim that LJ doesn't get credit because Lloyd spent 1 pre-season under Cotts.....

So Holden wouldn't get credit for all the lads who've joined 1st team training..... sure...

That’s what I take issue with. There’s plenty of valid criticism to give LJ and it was right that he went.

What is a bit disappointing is the lack of objectivity in analysis provided by clearly intelligent posters. As you’ve highlighted here. 

Sometimes I feel criticism of Johnson goes beyond what’s reasonable for a football manager that none of us know personally. It seems almost personal and I find that quite strange. 

I was always baffled by people using the fact that he was a pretty average player as a point to criticise him with. Holden had a less successful playing career than LJ as a player but you don’t see it mentioned!

[Jeez]

Some of the comments on the thread are seriously bitchy & find it hard to believe these are fully grown men making them. He was employed to do a job, he reached his own limitations at the time & was fired, give him some dignity as you can’t deny he was committed while here.

Yes he ran out of steam & ideas, yes he was afforded more slack & resources than any other manager but no denying he was an important stepping stone in the evolution of City.

It’s mad the Sunderland fans are so negative about the appointment, they are where we were & in reality (ok less stable behind the scenes) if I was them I’d have gone for Cotterall. But appointing LJ may be just the stepping stone they need to evolve back to a higher level they are used to.

[CodeRed]

5 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

 

Try and respond with a degree of honesty next time, I'm actually shocked that @Davefevs gave that post a like, as he isn't usually a blinkered poster.

LJ's managerial record is there for all to see and none of us can argue with that. I suppose some of us were more irritated by his continual self promotion than others.

His record:

Oldham

 

P103 W36 D32 L35 W/R 35%

 

Barnsley

 

P51 W20 D13 L18 W/R 39%

 

City

 

P217 W84 D54 L79 W/R 39%

 

Combined

 

P371 W140 D99 L132 W/R 38%

 

Honours Won

0

Bang average & I'm surprised he's getting Sunderland based on that. As Neil Warnock said " He talks a good game "

 

 

 

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

LJ's managerial record is there for all to see and none of us can argue with that. I suppose some of us were more irritated by his continual self promotion than others.

His record:

Oldham

 

P103 W36 D32 L35 W/R 35%

 

Barnsley

 

P51 W20 D13 L18 W/R 39%

 

City

 

P217 W84 D54 L79 W/R 39%

 

Combined

 

P371 W140 D99 L132 W/R 38%

 

Honours Won

0

Bang average & I'm surprised he's getting Sunderland based on that. As Neil Warnock said " He talks a good game "

Outside of a Liverpool/Chelsea/United/City etc - a nigh on 40% win ratio is pretty good for a manager really. Especially when you factor in the situation at Oldham.

[CodeRed]

12 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Outside of a Liverpool/Chelsea/United/City etc - a nigh on 40% win ratio is pretty good for a manager really. Especially when you factor in the situation at Oldham.

Dean Holden's is 53%

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Dean Holden's is 53%

Great, all the better for us then. That’s a straw man though because I wasn’t making a Holden vs Johnson point - I’m sure you know that too. 

To reiterate the point - anything close to 40% as a manager is pretty respectable over a decent sample size.

[RedRock]

23 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

LJ's managerial record is there for all to see and none of us can argue with that. I suppose some of us were more irritated by his continual self promotion than others.

His record:

Oldham

 

P103 W36 D32 L35 W/R 35%

 

Barnsley

 

P51 W20 D13 L18 W/R 39%

 

City

 

P217 W84 D54 L79 W/R 39%

 

Combined

 

P371 W140 D99 L132 W/R 38%

 

Honours Won

0

Bang average & I'm surprised he's getting Sunderland based on that. As Neil Warnock said " He talks a good game "

 

 

 

 

 

Ah Warnock.......now you’re talking proper football managers.

 

No idea of the precise geography of the North East ... but I suspect Neil is rubbing his hands about Lee moving in somewhere down the road. 

‘Talks a good game, but does he deliver’.

Will be an interesting watch, the only fall out being an extra boost for Boro which we could do without (although, obviously, some on here believe they are no threat because ‘Colin’ is ‘a dinosaur’).

 

[And Its Smith]

32 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

LJ's managerial record is there for all to see and none of us can argue with that. I suppose some of us were more irritated by his continual self promotion than others.

His record:

Oldham

 

P103 W36 D32 L35 W/R 35%

 

Barnsley

 

P51 W20 D13 L18 W/R 39%

 

City

 

P217 W84 D54 L79 W/R 39%

 

Combined

 

P371 W140 D99 L132 W/R 38%

 

Honours Won

0

Bang average & I'm surprised he's getting Sunderland based on that. As Neil Warnock said " He talks a good game "

 

 

 

 

 

Can’t really look at win percentages as it assumes everyone is playing with the same resources.  And as Phileas said, it was decent anyway overall. What he achieved at Oldham, an absolute basket case of a club, with almost literally no money, was brilliant.  To win more games there than you lose is impressive.  

The hatred that Lee Johnson brings out of fans is bizarre.  He might not have been perfect but if anyone ignores or downplays his strengths, then that is on them not Lee.  The positive things he did are clear.  Unfortunately he lost his head a bit I think and couldn’t see the wood for the trees.

Really hope he does well at Sunderland as he seems like a really good guy and it will mean a lot to him. 

[CyderInACan]

13 hours ago, Lrrr said:

I mean if you're basing it all on mis-quoting the guy then sure. We'll and we could are very different, 'where do you see the club in 5 years' .... 'we could be in the europa league' I remember at the time specifically pointing to Swansea as an example of a club he thought he were the size of and how they had managed to progress in a 5 year period and said there was no reason we couldn't do the same.

I was there when LJ said we’d be in the Europa League/EUFA Cup in old money. It wasn’t a joke. He really thought it was achievable. 

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I was there when LJ said we’d be in the Europa League/EUFA Cup in old money. It wasn’t a joke. He really thought it was achievable. 

The context is the key to that one though. If I remember correctly, it was some sort of round table event with the Rovers manager there too.

The question was "where do you see the club in 5 years"

Rovers manager "With a new training ground"

LJ "We want to be in Europe" (designed to jokingly highlight a difference in ambition between the two clubs). 

LJ goes on to expand by basically saying "well why not, we have to aim high" etc etc. 

If recounted as simply "we want to be in Europe in 5 years" then it obviously looks a bit silly. But that's with no context whatsoever. The essence of his point should surely be a positive to supporters though - "we want to take this club as high as possible within that timeframe"

 

Edit - just found the article from the event. As I thought, it's pretty obvious what his point is and IMO that sort of ambition is a positive thing. 

[CyderInACan]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The context is the key to that one though. If I remember correctly, it was some sort of round table event with the Rovers manager there too.

The question was "where do you see the club in 5 years"

Rovers manager "With a new training ground"

LJ "We want to be in Europe" (designed to jokingly highlight a difference in ambition between the two clubs). 

LJ goes on to expand by basically saying "well why not, we have to aim high" etc etc. 

If recounted as simply "we want to be in Europe in 5 years" then it obviously looks a bit silly. But that's with no context whatsoever. The essence of his point should surely be a positive to supporters though - "we want to take this club as high as possible within that timeframe"

It was the BBC Bristol Sports doofer in the Heineken Lounge. I think the sags gaffer at the time was Coughlan and there was also Barf, Bris and City Women reps on the panel as well as Twentypence. Probably Pat from Bris, now I think of it. 

I’m not saying that Coughlan didn’t mention the training ground for the sags, but the context you suggest isn’t correct in my view. Johnson was asked a straight question and he gave a straight answer. 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

It was the BBC Bristol Sports doofer in the Heineken Lounge. I think the sags gaffer at the time was Coughlan and there was also Barf, Bris and City Women reps on the panel as well as Twentypence. Probably Pat from Bris, now I think of it. 

I’m not saying that Coughlan didn’t mention the training ground for the sags, but the context you suggest isn’t correct in my view. Johnson was asked a straight question and he gave a straight answer. 

From what I remember it was a direct (initially light hearted) response to the Rovers' answer. He then expanded on it saying "well why not" and talking about expecting high standards from the team etc. I don't remember it being an organic off the cuff remark, it was in response to the Rovers answer. 

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Great, all the better for us then. That’s a straw man though because I wasn’t making a Holden vs Johnson point - I’m sure you know that too. 

To reiterate the point - anything close to 40% as a manager is pretty respectable over a decent sample size.

It's also far easier for a manager's win rate to be overly high or overly low at the start of their career, as each game is a larger percentage of their overall record.

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Dean Holden's is 53%

 

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

LJ's managerial record is there for all to see and none of us can argue with that. I suppose some of us were more irritated by his continual self promotion than others.

His record:

City

 

P217 W84 D54 L79 W/R 39%

 

Combined

 

P371 W140 D99 L132 W/R 38%

 

Honours Won

0

Bang average & I'm surprised he's getting Sunderland based on that. As Neil Warnock said " He talks a good game "

So taking his points per game with us it comes to 67 points on average over a 46 game season. Over the last 4 seasons would have been 9th, 9th, 11th, 9th, not forgetting that includes a tough first couple of years with less points per game. 
 

Point being Sunderland are seemingly recruiting a guy who has a solid top half record at championship level based on ppg and if we were in league 1 take away the name Johnson and it’s the sort of level I wouldn’t be displeased with if we were looking for someone.

[Phileas Fogg]

 

1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

Point being Sunderland are seemingly recruiting a guy who has a solid top half record at championship level based on ppg and if we were in league 1 take away the name Johnson and it’s the sort of level I wouldn’t be displeased with if we were looking for someone.

I get the impression there is almost some annoyance amongst Johnson's "haters" that he's been brave enough to take a job like Sunderland.

It's a big club, an unforgiving fanbase who've been on a steady decline. That part of the world revolves around their local club, same in Newcastle and Boro'. It won't be an easy ride.

I think some Johnson '"haters" were hoping he'd have to temper his own ego and take a job at a 'small' club like Wimbledon or Northampton to almost 'put him back in his box' and manage at his perceived 'true level'. 

As you say, if you separate Johnson the man (including full context of his time here and history) with his record - which is pretty good - on paper he looks a very solid appointment for Sunderland.

*For the record, I don't mean people with genuine valid concerns about Johnson are "haters" - it's those that are totally one-eyed about him and can only see negatives. 

[Northern Red]

l think this thread is proof that, for a small minority, their dislike of Johnson goes beyond simply not rating him as a player or manager and finding him a bit cringeworthy into something far more personal, to the point where they actively would have hated to see him be successful here.

All a bit weird really.

[Nogbad the Bad]

After one of his infamous losing runs LJ must have been close to being sacked by Barnsley a couple of months before City appointed him, and had he been he could have had no complaints and would no doubt have struggled to get another similar position anywhere.

Not sure he would ever have managed at Championship level but for SL's apparent determination to install him at AG, an appointment which would have surprised the wider football world as much as many bewildered City fans.

 

 

 

[Yoyo2345]

15 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I've seen to it! @Riaz I think you may enjoy this...

 

Hi Sunderland fans,

 

Hope you're all keeping well. I've joined the board to attempt to give you a balanced view on Lee Johnson. I'm afraid I might find this hard though as I'm sure you find out on reading this post.

 

Lee Johnson was appointed following the sacking of Steve Cotterill. Cotts had just given us our best ever season, albeit it at league one level. We won the league at a canter amassing 99 points and just for good measure we won't the Mickey Mouse trophy. Regrettably things didn't fare so well in the Championship and at the first sign of trouble, he was booted out with us third from bottom, two points from safety with half the season gone. Our chairman, Steve Lansdown offered Cotts no backing whatsoever and was very quick to pull the trigger.

 

This brought about the appointment of Lee Johnson. Poached from Barnsley where he'd done quite well. They'd eventually get promoted off the back of his start to the season, although they had recently endured their record losing streak under LJ and so the reality is that the Barnsley fans weren't exactly massively upset to see him go.

 

Things changed dramatically when LJ was appointed. you may be aware of LJ's dad Gary. He was a legend of a manager for us and took us to the play off final in 07/08 with a squad that performed well above the level of the players contained within it (remember this point). It was during this time that Steve Lansdown (owner) struck up a lasting friendship with the Johnson family - alarm bells ringing at all?

 

A closed cheque book for Steve Cotterill suddenly opened wide and players that Cotts hadn't been allowed to sign (Lee Tomlin - 20k wages, our highest earner being on 13k) were suddenly given the green light. On the back of these signings, including your own (I think) Adam Matthews, Tomlin and Peter Odemwinge, Lee Johnson guided us to safety.

 

In the coming seasons we'd see signings authorised left, right and centre. For millions and millions of pounds. Money was thrown about like we've never seen before - some (including me) would say because of Lansdown's fondness for Johnson. And we established ourselves as a team that would flatter to deceive. It cannot be ignore that admit it all Lee Johnson stumbled across a formula to have us playing scintillating football and we were neck and neck with Wolves up until Christmas at the top of the league, until we'll crumbled away in extremely poor fashion that saw us go on a remarkable streak of results that looked like that welsh train station with the really long name, these runs included a record 8/9 L's in a row and another similar run. And a number of fans took to christening him streaky Johnson as he'd manage to paper over the cracks (my opinion) with a couple of wins and a draw thereafter.

 

Signing wise, Johnson signed a lot of dross. He signed foreigners that played next to no minutes, including the NZ goalkeeper who had arguably the worst performance any player has ever had for Bristol City ever, or maybe even any football team ever. There were a few like this. Players he talk up, pay a lot and then not play.

 

Things weren't all bad on the transfer front though. He'd sign Adam Webster for 4.5m from Ipswich and sell him to Brighton for up to 26m and he signed Josh Brownhill for a pittance and sell him to Burnley for 7m (although this was pretty obviously always going to happen given his obvious talent).

 

Johnson also played a pretty uninspiring midfielder (who I'd have happily let go on a free) up top. Bobby Reid was in his last chance saloon at Bristol City when an injury crisis saw Johnson play him up front in a very successful pre season. We'd go onto sell him to Cardiff for 10m and he now remarkably pays his trade with Fulham in the Prem. Johnson can take full credit for that. 

 

He's also sell Johnathon Kodjia (15m to Villa), Aden Flint (7m - i forget whether to Cardiff or Boro) and Joe Bryan (6m Fulham), and whereas pro LJers would have you believe this was LJ's work, they were already at City (and had performed well) and so I'd suggest his credit in the transfers is extremely limited.

 

Post that defeat to Wolves, our football became awful. The worst we've ever seen at Bristol City. At the opposite end of the spectrum to what we'd seen earlier that season - hence why i used the phrase 'stumbled across a formula' earlier in this write up, it genuinely wasn't me being disingenuous. We were crap and Ashton Gate became anything but a fortress. We were weak, football was awful and more and more often fans would be calling for his head. But his good family friend Steve Lansdown stuck with him. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't all bad, away from home we became masters of nicking a 0-1 win on the road, but this would (in my opinion) paper over the cracks of the dour home form.

 

We'd regularly enjoy a decent enough start to the season and then fade away dramatically to 8-12th spot and given the tens of millions of outgoings and then now bulging wage structure, Johnson left us with a bloated squad with players in it that we knew were quality (Tamas Kalas - 2 promotions to prom), but somehow they managed to look like sunday league players.

 

Don't get me started on playing players out of position, we'd see players shoehorned into the starting line up at the expense of someone who genuinely would play in the position that he needed to fill. Then there was the 'Johnson Tombola' - if you want a steady and consistent line up then I'm afraid you've come to the wrong place. Our star left winger - who'd finish last season at the top of the assist making charts, couldn't get a run of games in the team no matter how well he played - can you imagine his stats if he'd got a fair crack?

 

Then there's the credit taking. If we won "They players stuck to my plan brilliantly", if we lost he'd single players out. I seem to recall a game where we lost heavily. He brought on a sub at half time (or there abouts) with us 2 or 3 down, the proceeded to blame him when we lost 4-0. Our ability to hold a lead became nothing short of awful - do you recall when we were 3-0 up against you at half time and drew 3-3? Awful. Blaming players is something Johnson does equally as well as taking credit himself. And he's good at excuses, blaming Villa beating us on the positioning of the away fans and excuses too... there was a time when we got completely trounced by Brentford nd he said something like "After their third goal, we more than matched them" - we lost 3-0. You getting the picture yet? 

 

Now comes my favourite point about Lee Johnson. The Johnsonisms. He is completely full of shit. As i understand it, there was quite a David Brent type character on STID? I never got far enough into the series to meet him, but LJ is more than a match for him. It got to a point where i couldn't listen to him. Win lose or draw I couldn't stand hearing what he had to say. It was just an embarrassment - I hope you'll learn exactly what it is that i'm referring to - but let just say you'd be well placed to start a thread on "Johnsonisms" on your forum and it'll be well populated very quickly.

 

I'm afraid I can't bring you much joyful news about your impending appointment of Lee Johnson. There were many points during his tenure where i'd have taken anyone to replace him - literally anyone - the football was that bad.

 

He does silly things, like  measure the length of the grass, spend a shift in A&E, go to an army training camp, spend a night in the kitchen of a Michelin starred restaurant and his latest boast is to have sat down with someone who's amassed 9,000 hours of army interrogation - this is the sort of bullshit that might impress the newspapers, but in reality when he's playing a LB at CD, or a winger in CM don't really matter. He's calls them the 1%'s, but the 90%'s that matter, he couldn't seem to master.

 

So good luck Sunderland. I'm afraid to say you're going to need it. When you hear sky Sports refer to Bristol City playing a fast attacking expansive brand of football, the reality is that they're basing it on 4 months out of 5 years. The rest was rubbish. There came a point they'd say it every time we where on TV.

 

I hope that A Bristol City fan can come on here an give a good counter argument. As you can tell from above I'm absolutely no LJ fan, and I might have undersold some of his strengths (thinking about the opponent strengths rather than our own is another one). There are City fans who like him, but they tend to be the ones who deliberately ignore that he only got the job because the owner is essentially his god father and backed him with more finances that we've ever seen before.

 

Good luck lads and lasses. I fear you'll need it. Because at Sunderland he'll be without his biggest strength - Steve Lansdown.

 

Fordy

 

 

Worse piece I've ever seen written. Who was this clown?

[Fordy62]

6 minutes ago, Yoyo2345 said:

Worse piece I've ever seen written. Who was this clown?

Few too many homes truths for a Johnson fan?

Why don’t you counter it?

[Phileas Fogg]

10 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Few too many homes truths for a Johnson fan?

Why don’t you counter it?

The issue with writing a counter piece is that it's the same people making the same points and neither side budging. I think if @JamesBCFC for example chose to address each of your points individually, we'd have a rough idea of what he might say in response. The arguments on LJ have, to use an OTIB cliche, been 'done to death'.

I think the reason pieces like this (on opposition clubs forums) touch more of a nerve is because it feels a bit like a piece that's supposedly representative of the majority view and comes across as 'speaking on behalf of'. I know you qualified the piece being your own opinion, but by default some Sunderland fans will see this as the accepted narrative regardless.

It's a bit like when dear @Robbored takes it upon himself to sign up to a Sheffield Wednesday forum to talk about how he rates Barry Bannan and then give a general slightly inaccurate analysis. 

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

After one of his infamous losing runs LJ must have been close to being sacked by Barnsley a couple of months before City appointed him, and had he been he could have had no complaints and would no doubt have struggled to get another similar position anywhere.

Not sure he would ever have managed at Championship level but for SL's apparent determination to install him at AG, an appointment which would have surprised the wider football world as much as many bewildered City fans.

I suppose that it could be said that LJ has been ‘looked after’ throughout his football career. Firstly by his father and secondly by SL and I’m sure he is very aware of that.

I sure he would like to prove himself without the involvement of his dad ( and of course SL) and imv that’s why he went out on loan as a player to show other managers would select him on merit rather than thru nepotism 

Should he get appointed at Sunderland then he’ll be free of paternal influence and it’ll be an opportunity for him to prove that he’s a capable stand alone manager. I hope he can do it.

[Robin101]

Torn on this because I’d like to see LJ do well but I’d like to see Sunderland do badly. 

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

It was the BBC Bristol Sports doofer in the Heineken Lounge. I think the sags gaffer at the time was Coughlan and there was also Barf, Bris and City Women reps on the panel as well as Twentypence. Probably Pat from Bris, now I think of it. 

Nope, it was Dopey.

[Fordy62]

28 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The issue with writing a counter piece is that it's the same people making the same points and neither side budging. I think if @JamesBCFC for example chose to address each of your points individually, we'd have a rough idea of what he might say in response. The arguments on LJ have, to use an OTIB cliche, been 'done to death'.

I think the reason pieces like this (on opposition clubs forums) touch more of a nerve is because it feels a bit like a piece that's supposedly representative of the majority view and comes across as 'speaking on behalf of'. I know you qualified the piece being your own opinion, but by default some Sunderland fans will see this as the accepted narrative regardless.

It's a bit like when dear @Robbored takes it upon himself to sign up to a Sheffield Wednesday forum to talk about how he rates Barry Bannan and then give a general slightly inaccurate analysis. 

I was more inviting him to counter on the Sunderland forum, I understand I’ve been harsh but I have quantified by saying there are those of us who do like him. 

But I take your point... it is however very hard to be positive about something you’re very passionately against!

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Cant see the working class N.E putting up with Johnson's David Brent management speak for long. 

Its the sort of chat that chairmen and owners probably lap up.