The Lee Johnson Thread (Merged)

[Robin101]

Appointment just described by 5Live as a ‘coup’ for Sunderland and that LJ wouldn’t have taken any other League One job.

[BLRed]

Good place to get our young players some loan experience maybe?

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

l think this thread is proof that, for a small minority, their dislike of Johnson goes beyond simply not rating him as a player or manager and finding him a bit cringeworthy into something far more personal, to the point where they actively would have hated to see him be successful here.

All a bit weird really.

There will always be fans against a new managerial appointment, and, as you say, a small minority vehemently against, for any number of reasons including personal dislike.

In fact as I recall it there were far more voices on here decrying the appointment of SC, and in a far nastier, personal fashion, than there were when LJ got the job, and several of those prominent posters maintained that view throughout his tenure, never gave him any credit, and seek to diminish his achievements for City even now.

However, the vast majority of fans who were against LJ's appointment, and there were many, including me, stated once the deed was done they would support him and, obviously, hope he proved a success.

You will always get a few (and you rightly say a small minority) who will never give a manager they didn't want much credit, even if he goes on to merit it, at least in some ways, in the the eyes of most.

LJ is the simply the latest example of this intransigence rather than an exception imo.

[Prinny]

1 minute ago, BOSRed said:

Good place to get our young players some loan experience maybe?

Good place to send Marley Watkins.

[Red Exile]

I was delighted when he left. No bitterness against the bloke though. I liked him as a player. As a manager his manner grated but it couldn't be denied that he did his best...it just wasn't good enough. Should have been shown the door long before - in my opinion.

Now he's in a job where there's no whiff of nepotism. He has a chance to prove himself on his own terms. Sunderland are a big club...it's a great opportunity for him. 

[Fordy62]

We’re going to see a lot of our players sent there. 

[Sheltons Army]

I see BBC Teeside have pictures of Lee hot footing it up the M1

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 minute ago, Robin101 said:

Appointment just described by 5Live as a ‘coup’ for Sunderland and that LJ wouldn’t have taken any other League One job.

Ridiculous, he clearly has plenty of friends in the media who will miss no opportunity to big him up.

[Ron W]

One question would be interesting to hear Fordy’s answer - would you be surprised if he got Sunderland promoted?

[BigTone]

Good luck to him. Hope it all goes well.

[BCFC Grim]

People were adamant he'd get a job at this level. I couldn't see it. I'd say it was a coup for him rather than them.

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Brave choice from him. Would love both he and SC to get their teams promoted from L1. 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I can understand your point of view when you explained the reasoning behind it, history with Cotterill etc. To your credit you have been 100% consistent in your views on Johnson from his appointment. 

Whilst I don't agree 100% with your views on Johnson, I think the majority of the criticisms you've made there are valid but in my view to a lesser degree and you've chosen not to credit Johnson for things that he probably does deserve props for. I think though that your post was partly extra harsh to wind Riaz up!

Given the range of views on Johnson, it's hard for there to be an accepted narrative.. if I was to have a stab at it though I get the impression most fans agree on the following:

• He was fortunate to get the job in the first place
• He was given lots of time, lots of money and lots of leeway given his personal history with the Lansdown family
• His management speak is a bit irritating and often he over spoke allowing lots of things he's said to be taken out of context to be used as simplistic soundbites against him  ("Europe in 5 years", "X amount of transfer windows", "measuring grass"). Regardless of the context of what he was saying, they'll only be remembered by many as the soundbite.
• He was lucky to keep his job during the losing runs.
• He struggled managing 'big name' players/tricky characters.
• His 'busy bee' preferred style of midfielder didn't capture the imagination of supporters.
• Lots of dud signings which indicated some sort of disconnect in the scouting/Ashton/Johnson's transfer dealings.
• He had lots of his best players sold, many of which were irreplaceable.
• He developed some great players and sold them on for big profit.
• He helped cement us as a competitive Championship side.
• The cup run was fantastic, Man United at home will be remembered for years to come.
• We were very good in patches away from home.
• At times, our general football was great. The Reid/Paterson combination in 17/18 before it fell apart.
• He was a good man who can never be accused of not being committed and genuinely cares about the club. 

 

 

Yes apologies for singling you out, I was trying to think of an intelligent regular poster who has a close to opposite view. You were the first name that popped up. Was just using you to illustrate a point though. 

 

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Perfect summary for me.

Only thing I’d pick up on is the away form. We weren’t just good in patches under LJ. We were probably one of the most successful away teams in the country during his tenure. Certainly his last 2 seasons, we were always on that sky sports stat saying ‘most away wins’. 
 

[Maltshoveller]

Good luck to him

Was gutted when he got the job with us but like every other City manager he got my 100% backing

Thought he done a good job for us and gave his all

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

 

Only thing I’d pick up on is the away form. We weren’t just good in patches under LJ. We were probably one of the most successful away teams in the country during his tenure. Certainly his last 2 seasons, we were always on that sky sports stat saying ‘most away wins’. 
 

Good point, I just wrote that on memory admittedly so didn't bother to look up the historical form. You are right though, he did generally do a really good job with us away from home. 

[daored]

5 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Good luck to him. Brave choice on both sides.

This might be his last chance , Sunderland are a big club with a huge fan base and expectations of championship football as a minimum. Not sure Lee will survive many poor runs of results 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, daored said:

This might be his last chance , Sunderland are a big club with a huge fan base and expectations of championship football as a minimum. Not sure Lee will survive many poor runs of results 

Doubt it, when you look at the amount of rotation the horde of lower league managers do in various clubs you can bet that even if he fails at Sunderland he'll pop up somewhere else. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Brave choice from him. Would love both he and SC to get their teams promoted from L1. 

Yes, Shrewsbury v Sunderland, 19th December. That game will surely require a Matchday thread of its own on here. @Davefevs, what can we expect? (At the game; I think we know what to expect on here ....)

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Good luck to him. Brave choice on both sides.

That’s how I see it.  He ought to be able to go there (based on his own view of his capabilities) and take them straight up.  People will be expecting him to get them up.  The minimum they’ll expect is play-offs.

Its a bit like Mark Ashton with Holden’s appointment.  His recruitment skills questioned if he gets it wrong, when they contacted 10 others.

As I said I expect LJ to get them to the playoffs, he “only” needs to improve them one place.  Starts with a home game v Wigan (bottom of the league).  Do they have any crowd allowed today?

[daored]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Doubt it, when you look at the amount of rotation the horde of lower league managers do in various clubs you can bet that even if he fails at Sunderland he'll pop up somewhere else. 

Sorry meant at a ‘big’ club I’m sure he’ll get another job but possibly at a perceived smaller league 1 or 2 club 

Just now, Davefevs said:

That’s how I see it.  He ought to be able to go there (based on his own view of his capabilities) and take them straight up.  People will be expecting him to get them up.  The minimum they’ll expect is play-offs.

Its a bit like Mark Ashton with Holden’s appointment.  His recruitment skills questioned if he gets it wrong, when they contacted 10 others.

As I said I expect LJ to get them to the playoffs, he “only” needs to improve them one place.  Starts with a home game v Wigan (bottom of the league).  Do they have any crowd allowed today?

Tier 3 Sunderland 

[GrahamC]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Only thing I’d pick up on is the away form. We weren’t just good in patches under LJ. We were probably one of the most successful away teams in the country during his tenure. Certainly his last 2 seasons, we were always on that sky sports stat saying ‘most away wins’. 
 

Really good point & equally the football we played around the Manchester cup ties was excellent.

Reid up front, Paterson dropping behind, a midfield including Smith, Pack & Brownhill.

Top notch.

[JamesBCFC]

Another thing I've thought of @Mackem33, and when it doesn't pay off it will be infuriating, but Johnson is not afraid to try unusual formations.

We went away to Fulham and played a strikerless formation, and put in an outstanding performance (I think this was 2017-18), we also went with an odd 4-2-2-2 formation against WBA at home, with a CB playing in midfield and tore them apart for a half when they were in great form, though their manager adjusted at half time and they came back into the game and got a deserved goal back. But because the formation had been so effective in the first 20-30 minutes it was a pretty comfortable win in the end.

There were also times where the team would change 3 or 4 times in a game, sometimes these tweaks paid off, other times they seemed to almost confuse the players and hampered the performance.

[JamesBCFC]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Really good point & equally the football we played around the Manchester cup ties was excellent.

Reid up front, Paterson dropping behind, a midfield including Smith, Pack & Brownhill.

Top notch.

The away Man City game was one where I left without even feeling particularly upset we lost.

Devastated the way it happened so late on, but the performance we had put in, especially when pundits were talking of 6-0 type scorelines, just left me proud.

[BigTone]

22 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

People were adamant he'd get a job at this level. I couldn't see it. I'd say it was a coup for him rather than them.

 

 

I think this job will make or break his future as a manager.

[BTRFTG]

29 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Good place to send Marley Watkins.

Why, that's nearer than where he is now?

I understand Timbuktu United (Reserves) are looking for players and that would be a far better fit.....

[Robbored]

I hope LJ has learnt from his experiences at AG and leaves his ego in its box........... I ant imagine the Mackams will tolerate the waffle he sometimes comes out with for very long.

It’s a good opportunity for LJ to forge his own career without too much influence/interference  from his dad.

I really hope he does well for them.

[BTRFTG]

Like nearly all our ex-managers it's time to forget WeeLee. When next his name crops up, like SoD, Coppell, Lousy Pint or Benny, the response MUST be: "Who?"

[Fordy62]

31 minutes ago, RonWalker said:

One question would be interesting to hear Fordy’s answer - would you be surprised if he got Sunderland promoted?

Interesting question. Most of me thinks yes, but when I think back to that four or five month period when we were amazing, if he can rediscover that sort of management then no...

But they’re a bit of a basket case. So I suspect if they don’t make the play offs, he’ll be gone. 

I think for the first time he’s on a level playing field to Cotts, and I don’t think he’ll get 99 points (or the equivalent). 

[DT The Optimist]

Please remember the words of Mick McCarthy when speaking about football management, you are one day a champ, the next day a chump  How true.

After we beat Man Ure he was a champ, his tenure ended with most thinking he was the latter. It’s the way it is.

His time had rightly ended here, to many times for me he would say we played well, with box entries and so on, without even a shot on goal in 90 minutes. 
 

Always came across well on media, I thought that was route he would take. 
 

As a BCFC representative thought he came across well and hope he succeeds at Sunderland. But, to be honest, what has he really achieved in the game at Oldham, Barnsley, and us?  Made us amid table Championship side. 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

I was never in the 'I hate Lee' camp supporting him on here when many didn't but agreed that it was time fir him to depart when he did. He did many good things at City, we were definitely a force away from home and he improved a number of players under his tenure, notably Bryan, Reid and Brownhill. But just like his father before him he overthinks the game particulary in looking to stop or match up the opposition rather than impose his own teams style. To some degree that was acceptable at City, a middle ranking Championship side looking to punch above its weight, but Sunderland are a big fish in L1, with a fan base that does not just expect promotion but expects to do so with ease. I genuinely like the bloke so I hope it works out for him but it will take a full on attacking team playing attractive football imposing themselves on the opposition to get the full backing of the Black Cats faithful. Fancy words won't cut the mustard on Wearside.