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Lee Johnson - Evolution of a Manager

Silvio Dante

By Silvio Dante
in Football Chat

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Carey 6

Carey 6

Posted
Posted
Quote

 

I learnt about things like how to manage a maverick. When I played for Bristol City, I was alongside a lad called David Noble. Gazza mentioned him in his book as one of the best talents he’d ever played with, that’s how good he was.

He was an unbelievable lad too, but he lived the life. It was my job as the number six or number eight to feed him, the 10, as quickly as I possibly could. I was doing his running, covering the gaps he left, but every time I did he acknowledged it and made me feel on top of the world when I got the ball to him early. And I loved what he could do on the ball.

If a super-talented player can enhance the team then you'll make those sacrifices. I’ve always remembered that.

 

Didn't seem to manage Tomlin (Ok hard work but knew what you were getting) & Palmer too well!

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Prinny

Prinny

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Posted

He has zero self awareness.

The same guy who tells his kids 'Show me your friends and I’ll show you your future'... has no friends!

"If you can resist the material things in your twenties then you’ll have a good chance of being successful and well-rounded for the rest of your life." Lee, you have no hobbies and friends and you spend all your time trying to improve your leadership. You're not well rounded.

"If I’m not playing, I’m not happy. That can be an impossible task for a manager, which is why I’m a massive believer in having the right squad size." I didn't realise that 30 was the right squad size...

"I couldn't go into the dressing room and suddenly pretend I was Sir Alex Ferguson, because the players would have seen through that straight away. Players can read through bullshit very, very quickly." So when the players do their impressions of you about having played 5000 games in the midfield, and are laughing at you, do you not thing to yourself..hmm, maybe they see through my BS.

"If a super-talented player can enhance the team then you'll make those sacrifices. I’ve always remembered that." That's why we bought Kasey Palmer and didn't surround him with runners, right. Luke Freeman the same. Lee Tomlin the same.

"I’ve got a natural thirst for improvement. Not trying to reinvent the wheel, but continually seeking ways to be a better leader." Then stop reading self improvement and self help books, stop talking to experts, and go manage people.

"They’re all little techniques you learn, which have to be true to how you are as a human being and how you work." Lee you are constantly trying to change who you are and how you act. That's not being true to yourself, unless who you are is not a real person and a collection of catch phrases and motivational therapy one liners.

"That is what worries me with all our kids - this external gratification which is relied upon." He says as he does an article so that people can praise him for how smart he is.

He's so busy digging  into something trying to find the 1% that he misses the main concept. He watches "all or nothing" and takes tips from Bruce Arians who of course, has never won as a head coach, and only as a coordinator.

He has zero self awareness.

If Lee Johnson the manager actually listened to Lee Johnson the life Guru he might actually do better.

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LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

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What's interesting to me is this quote:

"In my experience, the best assistants have had some experience of being managers themselves, because they understand what the manager has been through - winning runs, losing runs, transfer windows, players throwing their toys out of the pram - and what he needs."

That's notably different to the assistants he actually had...

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The Fat Controller

The Fat Controller

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Posted
7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

What's interesting to me is this quote:

"In my experience, the best assistants have had some experience of being managers themselves, because they understand what the manager has been through - winning runs, losing runs, transfer windows, players throwing their toys out of the pram - and what he needs."

That's notably different to the assistants he actually had...

Maybe that is something he has taken from his experience here.

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Bristol Oil Services

Bristol Oil Services

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

https://trainingground.guru/articles/lee-johnson-evolution-of-a-manager
 

In case you’re missing him. Decent enough read from LJ about managerial style, data analysis and yes - busy bees.

"Nine seasons as a manager under his belt," and about 18 transfer windows. And, er, as of now, no promotions. Or top six play-off places. Under that belt. Still a bit of room under that belt for things like play-offs, and promotions. 

One cup semi final though, being fair. 

 

How long (number of complete seasons) did the following take to deliver their first play-off finish and/or promotion:

Mick McCarthy - 1. Second full season at Millwall, lost in play offs, 2. Fifth full season, second full one at Sunderland, promoted.

Chris Hooton - promoted with Newcastle in second full season as permanent manager. Play off finish in first season at Brum. Norwich flopped. Then first full season at Brighton finished in play offs, second full season there promoted.

Chris Wilder - basically, it was bang, bang, bang, promotion, promotion, promotion. A little less conversation, a little more action/promotion than Lee, if you like.

Neil Warnock - it took Neil nine years before he got in the play-offs but he put some interesting stuff on LinkedIn while the fans waited. Or not.

Sean Dyche - had one full season at Watford, finishing 11th. Then in his second season at Burnley, they were promoted to the Prem. And promoted again two years after that. Sean has failed to deliver another promotion for Burnley since then (he might want to read up on Lee's coaching ideas).

Stevie Cotterill - Cotts won promotion from a pub league to the Conference in his first full season at Cheltenham. Then he took two seasons to take them up from there into the Football League. Then another promotion, so three in five seasons. Yes it was mostly parks stuff, but it was still p-r-o-m-o-t-i-o-n. Going up. Eieiei-o, and all that. And no ****ing LinkedIn park.

Gary Johnson - manager of Latvia for two full seasons but failed to get them promoted. Very poor. Second season at Yeovil, promoted into the FL. Well done. It took him two seasons to be promoted from Div 4. Then two seasons with us to be promoted. Then another promotion with Yeovil. In other words, no fannying around for nine seasons not getting promoted whilst simultaneously talking about himself like he was Rinus Michels. 

Alec Ferguson - put simply, he demonstrated what he could do without needing nine bleedin' "full seasons" (same goes for B. Clough, B. Shankly, M. Busby and pretty much any great manager you can think of).

Gabriella Benson - she didn't take nine full seasons, did she? (I don't remember, but I doubt it. I don't think the advertisers or TV execs would've waited that long).

 

Basically, if Lee was a recording artist, the music papers would love him, but the record industry would've long since told him to do one, and he'd be playing one of those stages you never see in person or on telly at Glastonbury at about 12.30 pm in front of 12 people (including his mum and missus) because his dad knew the bloke organising that stage (Derek in the Coopers) and just to shut him up. It's not necessarily that he hasn't got a great album in him, it's just that he needs to stop talking about it, and get it down on vinyl. If you like.

 

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LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

"Nine seasons as a manager under his belt," and about 18 transfer windows. And, er, as of now, no promotions. Or top six play-off places. Under that belt. Still a bit of room under that belt for things like play-offs, and promotions. 

One cup semi final though, being fair. 

 

How long (number of complete seasons) did the following take to deliver their first play-off finish and/or promotion:

Mick McCarthy - 1. Second full season at Millwall, lost in play offs, 2. Fifth full season, second full one at Sunderland, promoted.

Chris Hooton - promoted with Newcastle in second full season as permanent manager. Play off finish in first season at Brum. Norwich flopped. Then first full season at Brighton finished in play offs, second full season there promoted.

Chris Wilder - basically, it was bang, bang, bang, promotion, promotion, promotion. A little less conversation, a little more action/promotion than Lee, if you like.

Neil Warnock - it took Neil nine years before he got in the play-offs but he put some interesting stuff on LinkedIn while the fans waited. Or not.

Sean Dyche - had one full season at Watford, finishing 11th. Then in his second season at Burnley, they were promoted to the Prem. And promoted again two years after that. Sean has failed to deliver another promotion for Burnley since then (he might want to read up on Lee's coaching ideas).

Stevie Cotterill - Cotts won promotion from a pub league to the Conference in his first full season at Cheltenham. Then he took two seasons to take them up from there into the Football League. Then another promotion, so three in five seasons. Yes it was mostly parks stuff, but it was still p-r-o-m-o-t-i-o-n. Going up. Eieiei-o, and all that. And no ****ing LinkedIn park.

Gary Johnson - manager of Latvia for two full seasons but failed to get them promoted. Very poor. Second season at Yeovil, promoted into the FL. Well done. It took him two seasons to be promoted from Div 4. Then two seasons with us to be promoted. Then another promotion with Yeovil. In other words, no fannying around for nine seasons not getting promoted whilst simultaneously talking about himself like he was Rinus Michels. 

Alec Ferguson - put simply, he demonstrated what he could do without needing nine bleedin' "full seasons" (same goes for B. Clough, B. Shankly, M. Busby and pretty much any great manager you can think of).

Gabriella Benson - she didn't take nine full seasons, did she? (I don't remember, but I doubt it. I don't think the advertisers or TV execs would've waited that long).

 

Basically, if Lee was a recording artist, the music papers would love him, but the record industry would've long since told him to do one, and he'd be playing one of those stages you never see in person or on telly at Glastonbury at about 12.30 pm in front of 12 people (including his mum and missus) because his dad knew the bloke organising that stage (Derek in the Coopers) and just to shut him up. It's not necessarily that he hasn't got a great album in him, it's just that he needs to stop talking about it, and get it down on vinyl. If you like.

 

Aside from the fact that your last paragraph is a fairly accurate summary of British Sea Power, I think that - whilst there is truth in what you say - some of the managers you name had teams where the expectation was different. I don't think he has ever been in charge of a side where promotion would have been an expectation. That said, I think a failure to get at least a play-off finish with us showed a lack of consistency given how good we were at times. 

30 minutes ago, sinenomine said:

Maybe that is something he has taken from his experience here.

Could well be so. 

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tin

tin

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Posted

I'm so glad we're shot of this bullshitter. He's had his entire life handed to him on a plate, was at best an average footballer, and doesn't have a promotion, final or cup win on his CV.

If I was him, I'd be looking lower down the leagues and at getting serious achievements (league titles, promotions, even a clear style of play) under his belt rather than learning how to interrogate players etc. 

The higher up you go in football, the more you realise big players respect managers who've been there, done it and got the T-shirt. Not someone who played 90% of his career under his dad in the lower leagues. 

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Sheltons Army

Sheltons Army

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

**** me! He's so full fo shit

Good grief, will he be using waterboarding and thumb screws next…?

I'm so glad he's gone. Every match, I think, thank **** he's gone. 

Agree Max

And whether DH succeeds , fails or somewhere in the middle I’m a lot more tolerant and appreciative it won’t be whilst spouting bluff, bull and on a personal ego trip

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

Posted
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7 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Agree Max

And whether DH succeeds , fails or somewhere in the middle I’m a lot more tolerant and appreciative it won’t be whilst spouting bluff, bull and on a personal ego trip

yes, agreed.

It's so refreshing and less stressful listening to Dean & co.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, petehinton said:

For **** sake

F7782452-62F5-4BDC-979A-274ED8F9E353.jpeg

So.....you go and visit an expert in his field with no thought beforehand of its relevance.  Where your PDP (Personal Development Plan) Lee, stating the development need and who / what can help you develop, your objectives, and your post-development implementation plan?

That sums him up.

 

2 hours ago, Prinny said:

He has zero self awareness.

The same guy who tells his kids 'Show me your friends and I’ll show you your future'... has no friends!

"If you can resist the material things in your twenties then you’ll have a good chance of being successful and well-rounded for the rest of your life." Lee, you have no hobbies and friends and you spend all your time trying to improve your leadership. You're not well rounded.

"If I’m not playing, I’m not happy. That can be an impossible task for a manager, which is why I’m a massive believer in having the right squad size." I didn't realise that 30 was the right squad size...

"I couldn't go into the dressing room and suddenly pretend I was Sir Alex Ferguson, because the players would have seen through that straight away. Players can read through bullshit very, very quickly." So when the players do their impressions of you about having played 5000 games in the midfield, and are laughing at you, do you not thing to yourself..hmm, maybe they see through my BS.

"If a super-talented player can enhance the team then you'll make those sacrifices. I’ve always remembered that." That's why we bought Kasey Palmer and didn't surround him with runners, right. Luke Freeman the same. Lee Tomlin the same.

"I’ve got a natural thirst for improvement. Not trying to reinvent the wheel, but continually seeking ways to be a better leader." Then stop reading self improvement and self help books, stop talking to experts, and go manage people.

"They’re all little techniques you learn, which have to be true to how you are as a human being and how you work." Lee you are constantly trying to change who you are and how you act. That's not being true to yourself, unless who you are is not a real person and a collection of catch phrases and motivational therapy one liners.

"That is what worries me with all our kids - this external gratification which is relied upon." He says as he does an article so that people can praise him for how smart he is.

He's so busy digging  into something trying to find the 1% that he misses the main concept. He watches "all or nothing" and takes tips from Bruce Arians who of course, has never won as a head coach, and only as a coordinator.

He has zero self awareness.

If Lee Johnson the manager actually listened to Lee Johnson the life Guru he might actually do better.

I quite liked reading the piece, there were some nice bits, but boy, was their some BS too.  I don’t think he can help himself can he.  It is a perfect example of self-promotion, unfortunately if you’ve lived through his reign here you see straight through it.  I’m not sure it would impress anyone of a higher standing than BCFC in this country.

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Leveller

Leveller

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Posted
3 hours ago, tin said:

I'm so glad we're shot of this bullshitter. He's had his entire life handed to him on a plate, was at best an average footballer, and doesn't have a promotion, final or cup win on his CV.

If I was him, I'd be looking lower down the leagues and at getting serious achievements (league titles, promotions, even a clear style of play) under his belt rather than learning how to interrogate players etc. 

The higher up you go in football, the more you realise big players respect managers who've been there, done it and got the T-shirt. Not someone who played 90% of his career under his dad in the lower leagues. 

He might not have much success in his record as a manager, but if you refer to his CV, then you presumably include his playing career. He does have a few promotions and a cup win (including an assist for the winning goal) in his playing career. And of course he was instrumental in getting us to the Championship play off final.

 

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