Lee Johnson - Evolution of a Manager

[ReggyRed]

19 hours ago, tin said:

I'm so glad we're shot of this bullshitter. He's had his entire life handed to him on a plate, was at best an average footballer, and doesn't have a promotion, final or cup win on his CV.

If I was him, I'd be looking lower down the leagues and at getting serious achievements (league titles, promotions, even a clear style of play) under his belt rather than learning how to interrogate players etc. 

The higher up you go in football, the more you realise big players respect managers who've been there, done it and got the T-shirt. Not someone who played 90% of his career under his dad in the lower leagues. 

What a load of tripe that is. 

[Robbored]

20 minutes ago, Leveller said:

So when he was named player of the season three years on the trot at Yeovil, while they were climbing up the leagues, that was voted for purely by his father? Talk sense. The nepotism charge doesn't work. Yes, he was very lucky to have a father managing the teams he played in, and perhaps those teams would not have bought him otherwise, but he fully deserved his place in the team at both Yeovil and City.

There are arguments against LJ as a manager, but the level of hate on OTIB is beyond dumb at times.

Yes nepotism does work. LJ played the majority of games under his father......and I certainly don’t hate LJ at all in fact I quite liked him particularly with communication skills but he lost he way over time and started serving up the same dreary shite as he father had. It was deja vue.

I was delighted when he got the boot for that reason alone.

[Lrrr]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Yes nepotism does work. LJ played the majority of games under his father..

But the point being made is that Lee was largely successful under his dad, definitely until 2007/08 with multiple player of the year awards so up until that point why shouldn't Lee have played? Lots of other managers would try and bring players who'd been player of the year to new clubs with them so its not exclusive to Gary and Lee and hard to call nepotism for the move. You could argue after 2007/08 were we quick enough to upgrade the squad (not just centre mid) but up until that point we were successful under Gary and if it were any other player the argument would probably be 'you don't change a winning side'. 

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

But the point being made is that Lee was largely successful under his dad, definitely until 2007/08 with multiple player of the year awards so up until that point why shouldn't Lee have played? Lots of other managers would try and bring players who'd been player of the year to new clubs with them so its not exclusive to Gary and Lee and hard to call nepotism for the move. You could argue after 2007/08 were we quick enough to upgrade the squad (not just centre mid) but up until that point we were successful under Gary and if it were any other player the argument would probably be 'you don't change a winning side'. 

The fact that LJ was player of the year several times was at a much lower level to City and to me means bugger all

How often was LJ PotY at City? 

[CodeRed]

37 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Oh right. So the nearly 100 appearances he made in the 2006/07 promotion season and the 2007/08 Championship play off season don't signify? It's irrelevant who the manager was; he was a major part of our midfield in two successful seasons. And he was voted player of the season three seasons running at Yeovil. That doesn't happen if you're useless.

By all means debate his managerial career and style, which are both flawed. But I'm afraid your obvious irrational hatred won't persuade anybody that you are interested in a sensible discussion.

 

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37 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Oh right. So the nearly 100 appearances he made in the 2006/07 promotion season and the 2007/08 Championship play off season don't signify? It's irrelevant who the manager was; he was a major part of our midfield in two successful seasons. And he was voted player of the season three seasons running at Yeovil. That doesn't happen if you're useless.

By all means debate his managerial career and style, which are both flawed. But I'm afraid your obvious irrational hatred won't persuade anybody that you are interested in a sensible discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Oh right. So the nearly 100 appearances he made in the 2006/07 promotion season and the 2007/08 Championship play off season don't signify? It's irrelevant who the manager was; he was a major part of our midfield in two successful seasons. And he was voted player of the season three seasons running at Yeovil. That doesn't happen if you're useless.

By all means debate his managerial career and style, which are both flawed. But I'm afraid your obvious irrational hatred won't persuade anybody that you are interested in a sensible discussion.

You're the one who can't see it.

A major part of the midfield? Certainly he was picked (by dad) for most games but he couldn't and wouldn't tackle, no goals, no assists, took most free kicks without any success, a busy bee that passed back and sideways mostly but that's it.

Player of the Year......in the conference team managed by dad,  the conference? . 

[Lrrr]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The fact that LJ was player of the year several times was at a much lower level to City and to me means bugger all

How often was LJ PotY at City? 

But the point is its hardly uncommon for a manager to take a player who'd been player of the year for them before and bring them to their new club if they could, that's not just Lee getting the move because of who Gary was to him. 

As for his first few seasons of being at City

• he had 5 goals and 10 assists in his first season and was part of a promotion squad - McCombe POTY as part of a defence that conceded 39
• Play off final in his second season 1 goal and 7 assists - Basso named POTY (Doesn't need explaining)

So just because he wasn't named POTY how up until this point has his career under his dad been anything but successful? I said until 07/08 in my post.

[steviestevieneville]

15 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Hahahahaha!

It's "YOUR" 

not "you're"

Hoisted by your own petard has rarely had so much gravitas. 

I left that there for you on purpose . Just so you could get a tiny little bump in your trousers . 

[One Team]

21 hours ago, petehinton said:

For **** sake

To be honest @petehinton I am really looking forward to A Cider With Lee Johnson! Might have to extend the usual timing though... 

Can you and @Shtanley issue bullshit bingo cards on Instagram beforehand and get Mansion Bet to stump up some cider for the first full house?

[redysteadygo1]

20 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

 

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You're the one who can't see it.

A major part of the midfield? Certainly he was picked (by dad) for most games but he couldn't and wouldn't tackle, no goals, no assists, took most free kicks without any success, a busy bee that passed back and sideways mostly but that's it.

Player of the Year......in the conference team managed by dad,  the conference? . 

but he couldn't and wouldn't tackle, no goals, no assists, took most free kicks without any success, a busy bee that passed back and sideways mostly but that's it.

Entirely agree. With LJ, Sproule and Mcindoe we had three quarters of an excellent hurdle relay team.

His free kicks were pitiful, that little run up, stutter and then chip fooled no team. As for his passing he seems to want to appear to be the player that moved the ball about. Problem was when he received it he immeadiately passed to the nearest player he was facing regardless of how far away they were or what pressure it put them under. 

In fact my two brothers did not renew their season tickets, after being long time holders, because of GJ consistent selection of his son.

[Robbored]

19 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

But the point is its hardly uncommon for a manager to take a player who'd been player of the year for them before and bring them to their new club if they could, that's not just Lee getting the move because of who Gary was to him. 

As for his first few seasons of being at City

• he had 5 goals and 10 assists in his first season and was part of a promotion squad - McCombe POTY as part of a defence that conceded 39
• Play off final in his second season 1 goal and 7 assists - Basso named POTY (Doesn't need explaining)

So just because he wasn't named POTY how up until this point has his career under his dad been anything but successful? I said until 07/08 in my post.

You’re not going convince me that LJ was a good player nor convince many other City fans either. I’m not saying he was crap bu I am saying that he bang average and owes his appearances almost entirely to his father.

Why you can’t see that is beyond comprehension.

[CodeRed]

17 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

,............... that's not just Lee getting the move because of who Gary was to him. 

 

 

LJ had been in the reserves at Hearts for months prior to joining  City. He couldn't get a game.  He only ever played 4 times for Hearts in total.  No one else came in for him despite him being made available by Hearts. So Dad to the rescue again.  Like previously when LJ was released as a youth by Arsenal he got picked up by Watford who's Youth Manager was...................Gary Johnson.

 

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

You’re not going convince me that LJ was a good player nor convince many other City fans either. I’m not saying he was crap bu I am saying that he bang average and owes his appearances almost entirely to his father.

Why you can’t see that is beyond comprehension.

Signing to Yeovil yes potentially, but performances there showed it was worthy and I've explained above why its reasonable that he got his move to City as opposed to your 'nepotism everywhere' explanation and I'll use your own line 'Why you can’t see that is beyond comprehension'.

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

LJ had been in the reserves at Hearts for months prior to joining  City. He couldn't get a game.  He only ever played 4 times for Hearts in total.  No one else came in for him despite him being made available by Hearts. So Dad to the rescue again.  Like previously when LJ was released as a youth by Arsenal he got picked up by Watford who's Youth Manager was...................Gary Johnson.

 

Lee joined Watford and Gary joined after as academy director so not actually in charge of team selection etc, that sort of role oversees coaching at the academy, implementing playing styles etc so not youth manager. 

'League 1 player moves to SPL, doesn't make the grade and moves to club with previous manager they've been successful under at the same level'. Take out the names Gary and Lee Johnson and its not an uncommon thing to see. 

[CodeRed]

20 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Lee joined Watford and Gary joined after as academy director so not actually in charge of team selection etc, that sort of role oversees coaching at the academy, implementing playing styles etc so not youth manager. 

 

 

Gary left Kettering in 1997 to join Watford . 

The records show LJ joined Watford in 1998.

 

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, CodeRed said:

 

Gary left Kettering in 1997 to join Watford . 

The records show LJ joined Watford in 1998.

 

From Lee's interview

I was at Arsenal as a kid and moved to Watford while my dad was manager of Latvia. Then he came into Watford as Academy Director

[Leveller]

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

 

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You're the one who can't see it.

A major part of the midfield? Certainly he was picked (by dad) for most games but he couldn't and wouldn't tackle, no goals, no assists, took most free kicks without any success, a busy bee that passed back and sideways mostly but that's it.

Player of the Year......in the conference team managed by dad,  the conference? . 

The City team of 2006/07/08 was successful and LJ was a regular starter. No team would have that level of success with a permanent passenger in its midfield. He wasn't a flair player and he wasn't a star, but he was a decent deep lying midfielder of a similar standard to those we have today.

[Leveller]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

The fact that LJ was player of the year several times was at a much lower level to City and to me means bugger all

How often was LJ PotY at City? 

You don't do logic, do you? You've played the nepotism card. The level of the league is not relevant to that. He played in a team and got voted player of the season for three seasons - ergo, the manager wouldn't need to be a relative to continue picking him. Can you follow that?

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Leveller said:

You don't do logic, do you? You've played the nepotism card. The level of the league is not relevant to that. He played in a team and got voted player of the season for three seasons - ergo, the manager wouldn't need to be a relative to continue picking him. Can you follow that?

Yep......because there is no other rational.

[Sixtyseconds]

Evolution of a Manager.

One moment you are riding the wave of football thinking this is it ..

Man U are beaten.

Bristol City are exciting.

Bristol City are a team attempting to be exciting.

The team attack.

Lots of passing.

Front foot football.

Its a modern Bristol City.

The team are busy bees.

Then the wave crashes back.

Lee takes those bees away.

Its Djuric and Famara up top.

And Diony.

DIONY.

The sad evolution of a team in months.

To boring and dull back foot ball for seasons.

[CodeRed]

45 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

From Lee's interview

I was at Arsenal as a kid and moved to Watford while my dad was manager of Latvia. Then he came into Watford as Academy Director

He's bullshitting because he didn't want to say the old man got him into Watford. 

Gary moved from Latvia to Yeovil. He was at Watford before Latvia. GJ joined Latvia in 1999 so LJ is bullshitting as usual

Wiki 

Born in Newmarket, Suffolk, Johnson is the only child of Karen^[2] and football coach Gary Johnson. He began his career as a youth player with Arsenal, but left the club aged 17 after a feud with a coach.^[3] He then went on to join Watford, whose youth system was run by his father; he did not make a senior appearance for the club prior to his departure in 2000.

 

 

 

[!james]

Imagine being that triggered by the Johnsons.

[Tinmans Love Child]

LJ based his management style on just one man: https://youtu.be/VuCnlgtQNk4

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, ReggyRed said:

What a load of tripe that is. 

The comment about not commanding respect is bang on, imo. In fact, goes to the heart of the matter.

My impression is that most players, not just the "difficult" ones like Tomlin, eventually come to think of him as a bit of a tit. Whatsmore, Johnson is sufficiently self aware to know this. It eats away at him, just like doubts about his height, about his over reliance on his father etc etc. My guess is all these things feed into his self doubt. They're also the reason why he seems very driven to improve himself - an admirable quality and one which certainly impresses people like Lansdown or journos looking to write a story.

It's just a shame he can't help but tell us all about it though - the NHS, the SAS, the blah blah blah - when all we wanted was less talking the talk and more walking the walk. Specifically, if he'd set up to attack opponents at Ashton Gate and given us all something to cheer and get excited by at home matches, he'd still be in a job.            

[GrahamC]

58 minutes ago, Leveller said:

The City team of 2006/07/08 was successful and LJ was a regular starter. No team would have that level of success with a permanent passenger in its midfield. He wasn't a flair player and he wasn't a star, but he was a decent deep lying midfielder of a similar standard to those we have today.

Totally.

Completely demolishes this pitiful argument, because he was a regular in a side who got to the playoff final, FFS.

How good were the other 10 if he was a “passenger”, then? Brazil 1970 standard, presumably?

I never warmed to him that much as a manager in truth but cannot deny the Man U game will be a highlight of my many, many years supporting the club.

There are some sad, bitter people on this thread..

[ashton_fan]

I wouldn't be surprised if he puts in for the Sunderland job if he doesn't mind moving that far away and would have a decent chance of being appointed

[Leveller]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Yep......because there is no other rational.

I just gave you the other rationale. Typically, you ignored it.

And, incidentally, I seem to remember you being very supportive of him as a manager, until the very last minute.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, Leveller said:

I just gave you the other rationale. Typically, you ignored it.

And, incidentally, I seem to remember you being very supportive of him as a manager, until the very last minute.

Absolutely true. I wanted him to deliver and was willing to give time but towards the end he started to become a clone of his father by adopting the same dreary and dull shite that his father had - that did it for me.

[Leveller]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Absolutely true. I wanted him to deliver and was willing to give time but towards the end he started to become a clone of his father by adopting the same dreary and dull shite that his father had - that did it for me.

“I’m the first to admit that I was wrong to slag Johnson off as I did”.

Just found this quote of yours from May 2007, just after GJ got us promoted.

Consistency is not your strong suit.

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, CodeRed said:

LJ had been in the reserves at Hearts for months prior to joining  City. He couldn't get a game.  He only ever played 4 times for Hearts in total.  No one else came in for him despite him being made available by Hearts. So Dad to the rescue again.  Like previously when LJ was released as a youth by Arsenal he got picked up by Watford who's Youth Manager was...................Gary Johnson.

 

Looking at the bigger picture I'd say Johnson junior is massively indebted to his father...

You have to wonder where he'd be now without him - he's a very fortunate chap imo.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Totally.

Completely demolishes this pitiful argument, because he was a regular in a side who got to the playoff final, FFS.

How good were the other 10 if he was a “passenger”, then? Brazil 1970 standard, presumably?

I never warmed to him that much as a manager in truth but cannot deny the Man U game will be a highlight of my many, many years supporting the club.

There are some sad, bitter people on this thread..

I only ever saw him play on tv, but he was part of a side that did well.  Neat and tidy at Champ level in that season from the little I saw.

As a manager he did a decent / good job, was backed well and ultimately fell short of what was expected of him.  Had he not been backed his achievements would get more praise.

I liked some of his traits, I disliked others.  I thought it was time to go.  I don’t think he’s quite as good a manager as he thinks, but he’s no mug either.