Dire

[AppyDAZE]

4 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

Am I missing something with your forum name? Is the part that says ‘Jolly’ the most misleading start to a name in history?

It's French. Jolley est Oli. (Jolley is Oli) Holloway. I swear this is a joke.

[JBFC II]

25 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

We don't get promoted playing like this though, the last 2 and a half years we have and have fallen short every single time.

Given Holden was part of that setup, what's to say it won't happen again?

That's people's issue.

As you showed with your thread as soon as Holden was appointed, you were never going to give him a chance. 
 

Of course, things could go downhill (like with any club) but still criticising him, when we’re 3rd in the league with several first team players out, just shows you have an agenda really. Of course the performances could be better, but the same could be said for any team in the league. Why not just enjoy the ride?

[Midred]

1 hour ago, JollyestOli said:

The setup of the ground is wrong imo, standers are shunted out the way and there's no way of buying standing tickets. That was the main issue, and it's one that's being looked into.

AG is such a good ground, the layout of it is just wrong currently I think. 

Did you lose the tender to redesign the ground by any chance?

[petehinton]

39 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

We don't get promoted playing like this though, the last 2 and a half years we have and have fallen short every single time.

Given Holden was part of that setup, what's to say it won't happen again?

That's people's issue.

What’s to say it won’t happen full stop? Different set up, style of play and management. We are far more fun to watch than under LJ’s last 2 years. We’ve just lost one game and won the next one. We’ve come from behind, away from home, and won a game. Again. I can’t remember the last time that happened under LJ. 
 

We’re 2 points off top currently with 1/3rd of the season gone with 7 players out injured that could feasibly be in our ideal starting 11. I really don’t know what people are expecting?

[Tipps69]

1 hour ago, JollyestOli said:

Here mate, have a look where that side was pre Marcelo Bielsa.

Their side last season - Casilla probably the worst number one in the league, Ayling we all know of, White granted a decent player, Cooper a L1 defender at best pre Bielsa, Dallas a right winger playing left back, Phillips they all wanted out before Bielsa, Klich was out on loan abroad somewhere, Hernandez again good player, Jack Harrison scores about 3 or 4 goals a season even in that side, Helder Costa great at Wolves but didn't do much for Leeds and then their striker Bamford who missed double the amount of big chances than any other striker (Grabban) in the league.

That is coaching, he improved every single one of them and often made mediocre players look great. 

Do some research.

Bullshit!! They may of all come on a bit but that’s because of their age & the natural progression of any player!!

Look at any one of our home grown players that have made it, they all went on loan to an Accrington Stanley, Plymouth Argyle or Newport but have gone on for the most part to play at a higher standard!
Why is Ayling’s progression not giving credit to City, he was at Yeovil before us so we improved him to make a move to Leeds & on to the Premier League! No?!?

Bamford went for millions before he joined Leeds, where he started at Chelsea & had numerous loans to decent teams, so that’s all down to Bielsa’s coaching?

It’s the nature of the game, some players improve with coaching, some improve with game time & playing against better players. I’m not doubting that Bielsa has improved some of the players but you are talking about someone who is generally regarded as one of the best coaches in the WORLD by many of the other best coaches in the world, so would you not expect one of the best coaches in the world to get a tune out of some players?

[mozo]

1 hour ago, JollyestOli said:

I remember Lee Tomlin giving him a hellish afternoon a few years back when we beat them 4-1 under LJ. 

Played some good stuff that day.

Yeah I remember that game. One of those enjoyable games where you can sit back and enjoy an easy win.

[Rudolf Hucker]

6 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yeah I remember that game. One of those enjoyable games where you can stand up and enjoy an easy win.

... apparently 

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, JollyestOli said:

Jack Hunt is one of our better players I think, have we had a better right back since Orr?

Agreed but he is not a machine that can do Saturday/Tuesday at top form for weeks on end. The problem being the lad we signed to cover that then went and picked up a long term injury!!

[soultrader]

5 hours ago, downendcity said:

At the start of the season had you been told we'd play most games with Vyner and Moore at the heart of defence, that Rowe would be a regular, that COD would hold down a midfield position, that we'd miss Bakeinson and that Semenyo would keep Fam and Wells out of the team I doubt that many would have expected little more than a midtable spot at best 

Factor in a rookie boss, that most fans never wanted or rated, I suspect most would have been happy just to stay out of the bottom 6.

That we are where we are, despite an horrendous catelogue of injuries, speaks volumes for a team (including coaching staff) all pulling in the same direction. 

As for how we play, at the end of each round of golf my scorecard doesn't record the how, just the how many - the league table is much the same. 

Well if you're going to spoil everyones fun with facts !

 

Personally think we are doing well, once you factor in realism.

But in the meantime can always fall back on berating any newbie in the team for not being as good as Pele.

[MarcusX]

11 hours ago, JollyestOli said:

Sorry to put a downer on the result, I’ve given myself a few hours to reflect and even watched the highlights package back and come to the same conclusion. That was poor, again.

Our game plan just seems to be to not get dicked in the first half through nothing other than luck (missed chances) and then finally have a go.

Lee Johnson’s reign in terms of style of football was it it’s worst last season, this is just as bad if not arguably worse.

Seriously, if the football was shite but the end result was good I’d be content (i.e Warnock with his 8 promotions), but we are due an absolute drubbing soon from any half decent side gifting chances as we are and you can bet everything you own on us unravelling at the back end of the season just as we always do.

I’m struggling to find much to be positive about currently. Semenyo looks a talent, O’Dowda’s stepping up at long last and Vyner’s been a breath of fresh air. Other than that? As I said, I’m struggling.

How has the end result not been good? We're 1 point from the top in 3rd

[mozo]

1 minute ago, MarcusX said:

How has the end result not been good? We're 1 point from the top in 3rd

To be fair, I think that will change after the fixtures tonight. Still a very good start to the season results wise.

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

I can see with my own eyes as well as stats, even when we had fit players.

All teams have got injuries, play many games and have covid problems.

My post is an observation based on all the facts, stats and watching.

In no way is it meant to be depressing. It's just an observation that we are winning games unconvincingly and eyes and stats back that up.

As for players coming back...yes they will...but they take many games to get up to speed again and others will get injured again as well as suspensions.

The point of my post, was to imply not to get carried away with our position and don't be surprised if we start losing, because all the warning signs are there.

I agree that with the squad available to us we are massively over performing in terms of results if not performances. What confuses me is why some people seem so enraged about it (that's not aimed at you btw)!! You haven't made an observation that has passed the rest of us by and, on that basis, if everyone can see what might happen then why be so angry about it when we haven't got enough fit players in the squad to dramatically change anything.  I would argue that when you look at the long term injuries we have to players who would be almost certain starters we have it worse than most clubs at our level. If Holden tried to play expansive football with the players he has at his disposal we would get hammered by many teams in my view. He's being pragmatic. It doesn't make the football any better to watch but he is being necessarily pragmatic whereas I think the previous Manager literally "forgot" how to send a team out to play, even when everyone was available.

On the positive side, despite the unconvincingness of our performances you can literally see the likes of Vyner, Nagy and even O'Dowda starting to come to the party due to the fact we have had no choice but to throw them in at the deep end as first team regulars.............and if there's a better performing keeper than Dan Bentley in the Championship right now I would like to know who it is.

We might not win for 6 games now, we might go 6 unbeaten, none of us know. What we do know is we are in a better league position that we rightfully SHOULD BE.......to me that's something to enjoy rather than spend hours pontificating and losing sleep over what might or might not happen when our "luck runs out" (again, not aimed at you).

[WECANDO]

4 hours ago, JollyestOli said:

Have you seen the league table after the last three seasons at this stage? 

We’re always up and around it, it always catches up with us though and it will do again. 

It’s an awful watch. For the amount that say “I’d never have Warnock!” on here, his style of football is no worse currently.

Difference now is that we have 7 probable first teamers to take over from any current player's whose form starts to dip.

[downendcity]

25 minutes ago, soultrader said:

Well if you're going to spoil everyones fun with facts !

 

Personally think we are doing well, once you factor in realism.

But in the meantime can always fall back on berating any newbie in the team for not being as good as Pele.

Facts =  anathema to many on OTIB!  

Read a bit of the QPR forum last night and quite a few posters' comments were along the lines that it is all well and good playing flowing football, but if it doesn't get a result it's worthless. I'm guessing most of them would have happily taken our more pragmatic game if they went away with the 3 points.

 

 

 

[Lenners]

1 hour ago, JBFC II said:

As you showed with your thread as soon as Holden was appointed, you were never going to give him a chance. 
 

Of course, things could go downhill (like with any club) but still criticising him, when we’re 3rd in the league with several first team players out, just shows you have an agenda really. Of course the performances could be better, but the same could be said for any team in the league. Why not just enjoy the ride?

I don’t even dislike Holden, he’s a great bloke but there are many great blokes I wouldn’t want managing this club.

I hope he succeeds, currently I see no change from what we were under LJ.

[Lenners]

1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

Bullshit!! They may of all come on a bit but that’s because of their age & the natural progression of any player!!

Look at any one of our home grown players that have made it, they all went on loan to an Accrington Stanley, Plymouth Argyle or Newport but have gone on for the most part to play at a higher standard!
Why is Ayling’s progression not giving credit to City, he was at Yeovil before us so we improved him to make a move to Leeds & on to the Premier League! No?!?

Bamford went for millions before he joined Leeds, where he started at Chelsea & had numerous loans to decent teams, so that’s all down to Bielsa’s coaching?

It’s the nature of the game, some players improve with coaching, some improve with game time & playing against better players. I’m not doubting that Bielsa has improved some of the players but you are talking about someone who is generally regarded as one of the best coaches in the WORLD by many of the other best coaches in the world, so would you not expect one of the best coaches in the world to get a tune out of some players?

By “coming on a bit” you mean transforming from a side that finished lower midtable to the best side the Championship has seen since Reading back in 06? Understatement of the year.

I’m not discrediting LJ, he improved players yes.

Bamford never once started for Chelsea’s first team either, would love to know where you’re getting this info from

38 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

How has the end result not been good? We're 1 point from the top in 3rd

The end result meaning we miss out on the playoffs, I’m talking about previous seasons. This one is following the same trend, the performances will catch up on us. 

[Lenners]

15 minutes ago, WECANDO said:

Difference now is that we have 7 probable first teamers to take over from any current player's whose form starts to dip.

Do we? Who are they?

[RedEyez]

25 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

I don’t even dislike Holden, he’s a great bloke but there are many great blokes I wouldn’t want managing this club.

I hope he succeeds, currently I see no change from what we were under LJ.

I do! I see a head coach who isn’t afraid to change things or make big decisions to influence a game when needed to do so. Something LJ never did until the 80th min.

LJ would have kept JD on last night and we probably would have gone on to lose the game by more than one goal.

Deano brought Tommy Rowe on and it effectively won us the game.

[JBFC II]

10 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

I don’t even dislike Holden, he’s a great bloke but there are many great blokes I wouldn’t want managing this club.

I hope he succeeds, currently I see no change from what we were under LJ.

I guess we won’t be able to see change until we see if we fall away or not. 
 

But give him a chance at least, writing him off before he started and then keeping that up despite our form is just an agenda 

[spudski]

42 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I agree that with the squad available to us we are massively over performing in terms of results if not performances. What confuses me is why some people seem so enraged about it (that's not aimed at you btw)!! You haven't made an observation that has passed the rest of us by and, on that basis, if everyone can see what might happen then why be so angry about it when we haven't got enough fit players in the squad to dramatically change anything.  I would argue that when you look at the long term injuries we have to players who would be almost certain starters we have it worse than most clubs at our level. If Holden tried to play expansive football with the players he has at his disposal we would get hammered by many teams in my view. He's being pragmatic. It doesn't make the football any better to watch but he is being necessarily pragmatic whereas I think the previous Manager literally "forgot" how to send a team out to play, even when everyone was available.

On the positive side, despite the unconvincingness of our performances you can literally see the likes of Vyner, Nagy and even O'Dowda starting to come to the party due to the fact we have had no choice but to throw them in at the deep end as first team regulars.............and if there's a better performing keeper than Dan Bentley in the Championship right now I would like to know who it is.

We might not win for 6 games now, we might go 6 unbeaten, none of us know. What we do know is we are in a better league position that we rightfully SHOULD BE.......to me that's something to enjoy rather than spend hours pontificating and losing sleep over what might or might not happen when our "luck runs out" (again, not aimed at you).

I think it's in our nature as football fans, as well as managers, to gloss over the positives, and always look at ways to improve. We enjoy a win...but always look to where we could be better and whether we can improve.

 

It's the nature of the beast

[soultrader]

37 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Facts =  anathema to many on OTIB!  

Read a bit of the QPR forum last night and quite a few posters' comments were along the lines that it is all well and good playing flowing football, but if it doesn't get a result it's worthless. I'm guessing most of them would have happily taken our more pragmatic game if they went away with the 3 points.

 

 

 

 

Yes.  Agree 100%

And I do remember reading the same here years ago.    When City tried to play well but lost.   

 

Still I guess life would be boring if we all agreed 

[Malago]

2 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

It's French. Jolley est Oli. (Jolley is Oli) Holloway. I swear this is a joke.

Of course it is.  The guy’s a gas head on a wind up.  I’m surprised how many on here have been taken in by him.

[Lenners]

7 minutes ago, RedEyez said:

I do! I see a head coach who isn’t afraid to change things or make big decisions to influence a game when needed to do so. Something LJ never did until the 80th min.

LJ would have kept JD on last night and we probably would have gone on to lose the game by more than one goal.

Deano brought Tommy Rowe on and it effectively won us the game.

Serious? I was never LJs biggest fan but we used to make double subs at half time every other week.

[Lenners]

1 minute ago, Malago said:

Of course it is.  The guy’s a gas head on a wind up.  I’m surprised how many on here have been taken in by him.

I’m not a Gashead, such a weird and common trait on here that anybody with an opinion that isn’t overly optimistic and fuelled by blind faith is a “Gashead”.

Read through my posts, I’m most certainly not.

[Tipps69]

2 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

By “coming on a bit” you mean transforming from a side that finished lower midtable to the best side the Championship has seen since Reading back in 06? Understatement of the year.

I’m not discrediting LJ, he improved players yes.

Bamford never once started for Chelsea’s first team either, would love to know where you’re getting this info from

The end result meaning we miss out on the playoffs, I’m talking about previous seasons. This one is following the same trend, the performances will catch up on us. 

Bamford was at Chelsea after making 2 appearances for Forest, he then went out on 6 loans, Chelsea is where he was predominantly brought up through the ranks!! He was so poor that he left Chelsea for Middlesborough for over £6m! He then moved on to Leeds for just over £7m!! That’s what Bamford has to do with Chelsea! The same as Andy Cole will of always come from Arsenal but never made his name there because of a lack of opportunity!!

For the record & despite you seemingly looking to discredit players, your previous mention of Jack Harrison is a Man City player technically! Who Leeds have loaned for the last 3 seasons (before Bielsa arrived)! You are aware of how much Leeds have spent to get where they are, aren’t you? If Leeds hadn’t got promoted, they were looking very likely to lose Bielsa & his £5m per year coaching team (that’s including how much Bielsa is costing them) & Leeds were looking at financial ruin along with losing a lot of their Championship (division) squad!! They gambled & got lucky as did Aston Villa who also risked their club’s future on an all or nothing philosophy.

We will never be run like that for as long as SL is financing this club because he wants the club to be self-sufficient & to be around for decades to come.

This season may well follow the same trend as previous seasons & no doubt you’ll be back at the end of the season to gloat about it but there is only so much the club can do with such a fixture schedule, with such a squad & such an injury situation. This financial situation hasn’t just happened, it’s been apparent since March, so the club were never going to be signing 10 players or so to pad the squad out with in case of injuries, if everyone was fit or we only had one or two long term injuries, we could of dealt with things, like rotating & resting players & this would of allowed for better performances & players not being run into the ground but it is what it is. We have so far gone through the season without arguably our two starting central midfielders & at least 1 centre-back that would of played a huge part while missing other players for a large portion of the season so far.

Would you prefer better performances over results? Would you prefer to be in 3rd place playing non-attractive football or be in Derby’s position? We are doing what is required right now to stay in the hunt in the hope that our squad situation gets better

I’m not sure why you are expecting so much? What has given you any reason to expect better because it can’t be anything to do with our history or our spending on new players, so what has given you the belief that we should be better?

[Lenners]

1 minute ago, Tipps69 said:

Bamford was at Chelsea after making 2 appearances for Forest, he then went out on 6 loans, Chelsea is where he was predominantly brought up through the ranks!! He was so poor that he left Chelsea for Middlesborough for over £6m! He then moved on to Leeds for just over £7m!! That’s what Bamford has to do with Chelsea! The same as Andy Cole will of always come from Arsenal but never made his name there because of a lack of opportunity!!

For the record & despite you seemingly looking to discredit players, your previous mention of Jack Harrison is a Man City player technically! Who Leeds have loaned for the last 3 seasons (before Bielsa arrived)! You are aware of how much Leeds have spent to get where they are, aren’t you? If Leeds hadn’t got promoted, they were looking very likely to lose Bielsa & his £5m per year coaching team (that’s including how much Bielsa is costing them) & Leeds were looking at financial ruin along with losing a lot of their Championship (division) squad!! They gambled & got lucky as did Aston Villa who also risked their club’s future on an all or nothing philosophy.

We will never be run like that for as long as SL is financing this club because he wants the club to be self-sufficient & to be around for decades to come.

This season may well follow the same trend as previous seasons & no doubt you’ll be back at the end of the season to gloat about it but there is only so much the club can do with such a fixture schedule, with such a squad & such an injury situation. This financial situation hasn’t just happened, it’s been apparent since March, so the club were never going to be signing 10 players or so to pad the squad out with in case of injuries, if everyone was fit or we only had one or two long term injuries, we could of dealt with things, like rotating & resting players & this would of allowed for better performances & players not being run into the ground but it is what it is. We have so far gone through the season without arguably our two starting central midfielders & at least 1 centre-back that would of played a huge part while missing other players for a large portion of the season so far.

Would you prefer better performances over results? Would you prefer to be in 3rd place playing non-attractive football or be in Derby’s position? We are doing what is required right now to stay in the hunt in the hope that our squad situation gets better

I’m not sure why you are expecting so much? What has given you any reason to expect better because it can’t be anything to do with our history or our spending on new players, so what has given you the belief that we should be better?

You’re going way off topic, what I said was that we have a better squad on paper than what Leeds did last season. I know Leeds fans down here that agree with me, the reason they went up and spent so much was simply because they had to if they wanted any chance of surviving.

I don’t think it’s “expecting too much”, we’re having games like the Reading one, the Cardiff one, Watford, 1st half last night where we look totally incoherent and can barely even muster a shot on goal.

The bar is so low because of the standards LJ set, that’s the problem. The football is dire and it’ll catch up with us, it’s not sustainable for teams to have 3 expected goals like QPR did last night and only score 1 of them. It will soon catch up with us.

[Malago]

5 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

I’m not a Gashead, such a weird and common trait on here that anybody with an opinion that isn’t overly optimistic and fuelled by blind faith is a “Gashead”.

Read through my posts, I’m most certainly not.

Next time you come on here on a wind up suggest you use a more City friendly username.  Something along the line of Ollie is a C U next Tuesday, perhaps.

[Lenners]

1 minute ago, Malago said:

Next time you come on here on a wind up suggest you use a more City friendly username.  Something along the line of Ollie is a C U next Tuesday, perhaps.

Agreed he is a total w***er, I saw him up Thornbury high street a few years back and gave him an earful across the road. Vile man.

Even Rovers fans aren't so fond of the bloke anymore, seems to only give them and their new owners negative press from what I read on Facebook.

 

 

[AppyDAZE]

4 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

Agreed he is a total w***er, I saw him up Thornbury high street a few years back and gave him an earful across the road. Vile man.

Even Rovers fans aren't so fond of the bloke anymore, seems to only give them and their new owners negative press from what I read on Facebook.

 

 

Fair play, I don't think you are Gas, and you do have a good point about different opinions.

[Tipps69]

6 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

You’re going way off topic, what I said was that we have a better squad on paper than what Leeds did last season. I know Leeds fans down here that agree with me, the reason they went up and spent so much was simply because they had to if they wanted any chance of surviving.

I don’t think it’s “expecting too much”, we’re having games like the Reading one, the Cardiff one, Watford, 1st half last night where we look totally incoherent and can barely even muster a shot on goal.

The bar is so low because of the standards LJ set, that’s the problem. The football is dire and it’ll catch up with us, it’s not sustainable for teams to have 3 expected goals like QPR did last night and only score 1 of them. It will soon catch up with us.

That may well be the case but things can’t get much worse with our squad situation & injuries so hoping that that will get better, we could have 2 fully fit first choice central midfielders & a couple of defenders becoming available for the 2nd half of the season, that would enable us to rest & rotate players. But I guess it depends on whether you want to look at your glass as being half full or half empty..........