Dire

[Selred]

2 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

As could we.

We could of scored a few more yes, but let's not pretend it was a defensive masterclass. We were outplayed that first half, and just because we won doesn't mean we cannot look at where to improve.

I don't understand why OTIB people cannot criticise after a win without being called Gas? Last night was dire at times.

Last night was the 3rd game on the spin where we haven't played well. We didn't deserve 3 points if we were all honest, a draw probably was a fairer result.

We've been let off by Watford and QPR for not having clinical strikers. We do need to improve defensively, whilst not resorting fully to a back 5 as we lose all attacking impotence when that happens.

I haven't enjoyed a lot of the resent performances, probably the last 5 or 6 games. Yes I'm happy for the results, of course I am, but do we look like a team worthy of 3rd place? No. 

The whole league has been poor this season, but if we don't start to up our performances then we will get caught in the second half. And yes I am conscious we have had a lot of injuries, but my comment is purely based on this defensive counter attacking football which I just don't enjoy watching to be honest. Lets hope things change, but at least we are on a good points base to kick on.

[Bar BS3]

50 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

Objective achieved actually, had a call with senior figures at the club in regards to the current situation/decisions on the playing field and the matchday experience off the playing field.

Proposals suggested, all being looked into. Hopefully will make for a better matchday experience for all of us when we go back. 

What suggestions did you make..? 

I hope you didn't speak on my behalf, becausenim pretty sure I disagree with what you've suggested..! 

So you are unhappy with the match day experience. 

Unhappy about how we win. 

Unhappy about the validity of our league position. 

Unhappy that we aren't Leeds. 

Unhappy that you didn't get your choice of manager. 

Unhappy that the earth hasn't been struck by a meteor. 

Unhappy that you aren't happy being unhappy....! 

[Lenners]

14 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Leeds had a weaker squad than us? Now I know you are ******* deluded!! 

Here mate, have a look where that side was pre Marcelo Bielsa.

Their side last season - Casilla probably the worst number one in the league, Ayling we all know of, White granted a decent player, Cooper a L1 defender at best pre Bielsa, Dallas a right winger playing left back, Phillips they all wanted out before Bielsa, Klich was out on loan abroad somewhere, Hernandez again good player, Jack Harrison scores about 3 or 4 goals a season even in that side, Helder Costa great at Wolves but didn't do much for Leeds and then their striker Bamford who missed double the amount of big chances than any other striker (Grabban) in the league.

That is coaching, he improved every single one of them and often made mediocre players look great. 

Do some research.

[Lenners]

4 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

What suggestions did you make..? 

I hope you didn't speak on my behalf, becausenim pretty sure I disagree with what you've suggested..! 

So you are unhappy with the match day experience. 

Unhappy about how we win. 

Unhappy about the validity of our league position. 

Unhappy that we aren't Leeds. 

Unhappy that you didn't get your choice of manager. 

Unhappy that the earth hasn't been struck by a meteor. 

Unhappy that you aren't happy being unhappy....! 

The setup of the ground is wrong imo, standers are shunted out the way and there's no way of buying standing tickets. That was the main issue, and it's one that's being looked into.

AG is such a good ground, the layout of it is just wrong currently I think. 

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Massively agree that we are riding our luck.

You've only got to look at the stats...even worse than last season.

We saw the warning signs under LJ...poor performance and poor stats. Same points this season, poor performances and worse stats.

You can ride your luck for so long...but it things out in the end.

Everyone loves Holden...because he's a breath of fresh air after LJ and people like his no bullshit approach.

But if we were doing this under LJ it would be a different story.

 

The bubble will burst soon if things don't change.

 

We were playing this way at times under Johnson when we pretty much had a full complement of players available. You seem to be a very much statistics based person so how about looking at our serious injury statistics hand in hand with the rest of them? Do you really believe that long term injuries to Mawson (that's the really key one for me), Williams, Walsh and Sessegnon, meaning not only do we not have these players available but we also have to "over-play" the likes of Jack Hunt, make no difference to our statistics? Do you not think that Holden is being pragmatic and do you not think, given what has he said he is looking to achieve in terms of playing style, that the style and the statistics won't change when he has a full squad with his better players in key areas available to him?

How about a positive way of thinking that says our luck will change.......for the better when we get the injured players back? Or people can just be miserable bastards and literally ONLY find stuff to moan about rather than offering a balanced view when we are third in the table (lucky or otherwise). Its the typical, social media styled, polarised rubbish along the likes of "Zak Vyner is nowhere near good enough for this level" (a genuine comment made on here after the game on Saturday) that is actually depressing to read because it is so wide of the mark and such crap is only written because someone is angry and emotional at either a result or a performance or both, either that or more people genuinely don't have a clue than I thought.

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, JollyestOli said:

The setup of the ground is wrong imo, standers are shunted out the way and there's no way of buying standing tickets. That was the main issue, and it's one that's being looked into.

AG is such a good ground, the layout of it is just wrong currently I think. 

"YOU" think..? 

What did you do to canvas opinion before taking those issues to the club...?

I don't think there's too much wrong with it. 

I think it's largely limited options down to laws of where can be less tightly controlled and the whole myth of only being able to get to your feet in S82 is nonsense. 

In the Dolman, we stand at moments of excitement and then sit and watch play generally. That's fine by me. 

 

 

[Lenners]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We were playing this way at times under Johnson when we pretty much had a full complement of players available. You seem to be a very much statistics based person so how about looking at our serious injury statistics hand in hand with the rest of them? Do you really believe that long term injuries to Mawson (that's the really key one for me), Williams, Walsh and Sessegnon, meaning not only do we not have these players available but we also have to "over-play" the likes of Jack Hunt, make no difference to our statistics? Do you not think that Holden is being pragmatic and do you not think, given what has he said he is looking to achieve in terms of playing style, that the style and the statistics won't change when he has a full squad with his better players in key areas available to him?

How about a positive way of thinking that says our luck will change.......for the better when we get the injured players back? Or people can just be miserable bastards and literally ONLY find stuff to moan about rather than offering a balanced view when we are third in the table (lucky or otherwise). Its the typical, social media styled, polarised rubbish along the likes of "Zak Vyner is nowhere near good enough for this level" (a genuine comment made on here after the game on Saturday) that is actually depressing to read because it is so wide of the mark and such crap is only written because someone is angry and emotional at either a result or a performance or both, either that or more people genuinely don't have a clue than I thought.

Jack Hunt is one of our better players I think, have we had a better right back since Orr?

[Lenners]

Just now, Bar BS3 said:

"YOU" think..? 

What did you do to canvas opinion before taking those issues to the club...?

I don't think there's too much wrong with it. 

I think it's largely limited options down to laws of where can be less tightly controlled and the whole myth of only being able to get to your feet in S82 is nonsense. 

In the Dolman, we stand at moments of excitement and then sit and watch play generally. That's fine by me. 

 

 

Yes, I think. Not everyone is going to agree with me, particularly those that are deliberately obtuse like yourself, but I know of many who have had an issue of wanting to stand and not being able to buy a standing ticket so having to sneak into the standing section which in itself causes issues as I've stood in S82 when there's been 2 people per seat many times. It's dangerous.

You do as you please.

[Ska Junkie]

Just now, JollyestOli said:

Yes, I think. Not everyone is going to agree with me, particularly those that are deliberately obtuse like yourself, but I know of many who have had an issue of wanting to stand and not being able to buy a standing ticket so having to sneak into the standing section which in itself causes issues as I've stood in S82 when there's been 2 people per seat many times. It's dangerous.

You do as you please.

Not having a go at all but could I ask what suggestions / recommendations you've made?

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, JollyestOli said:

Yes, I think. Not everyone is going to agree with me, particularly those that are deliberately obtuse like yourself, but I know of many who have had an issue of wanting to stand and not being able to buy a standing ticket so having to sneak into the standing section which in itself causes issues as I've stood in S82 when there's been 2 people per seat many times. It's dangerous.

You do as you please.

Stop breaking the ground rules then..! 

I used to love standing throughout a game when I was a teenager/early twenties. 

Now, I'd much rather actually watch the game and react to what's happening. 

That is definitely an age thing, I'd say. 

Again, what did you do to canvas others opinions and present them to the club, to back up your claims that they've got it all wrong..? 

[TonyTonyTony]

God there are some miserable buggers on here

[Bar BS3]

4 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

Yes, I think. Not everyone is going to agree with me

As this thread very well shows...! 

[Lenners]

Just now, Ska Junkie said:

Not having a go at all but could I ask what suggestions / recommendations you've made?

Several in fairness mate.

It's ultimately up to the club but as I said it's an issue that needs to be looked into and it is being looked into as they've said it's something they constantly are asked about by fans so it's not just me.

It's always said by players, management etc how big a difference the fans can make but we seem to stifle our own fans by limiting the opportunities to stand and sing amongst likeminded people.

I had a look into it and there were only 2 other clubs that buying tickets in a section that stand weren't available generally on a match day (not including us), which I think prevents it's own issue.

The ideal scenario is safe standing top half of the SS as well as the corner where it is now, the demand would be there I think and it'd get that whole stand rocking. That's just one proposal that the club claim they have already considered which is great.

I know a lot of fans would be quite happy to move into the Atyeo as a full home end, I would too but that's not one route I see the club taking personally. Others who have been in contact with the club have suggested otherwise though, so we'll see I suppose.

2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Stop breaking the ground rules then..! 

I used to love standing throughout a game when I was a teenager/early twenties. 

Now, I'd much rather actually watch the game and react to what's happening. 

That is definitely an age thing, I'd say. 

Again, what did you do to canvas others opinions and present them to the club, to back up your claims that they've got it all wrong..? 

I'm not breaking any ground rules, I have a season ticket in S82. 

What is wrong with you?

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, JollyestOli said:

I'm not breaking any ground rules, I have a season ticket in S82. 

What is wrong with you?

Ah OK. My apologise. 

I thought your point was that you couldn't get in there. 

So you've got the relaxed restrictions that you want, in your area of the ground already... 

 

[mozo]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Walking slightly further into the fishing expedition, but took a quick skimread of Holden's pre-game comments- not got round to the post match ones yet.

You might be interested in them @JollyestOli

Remember when we were winning easily and dominating periods in the first phase of the season? "We're nowhere near where we want to be" was a fairly regular refrain.

Good to see high standards, always pushing for more.

Thanks for sharing that Pops. It reassures me that Dean Holden sees it just like I do; we're in a good position, but we have to do better in a number of areas.

That makes complete sense and most of us would probably agree.

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I regularly think like this. It all goes back to the false position debate and I genuinely think we are in one. The warning signs are there. 

That being said, we’ve probably got 4-5 first teamers out injured. If we can just hang in there, I think we’ll be very different with a first choice midfield. 

By tonight we could be 7th which I personally think is very close to being where our performances merit. I'd say we 'deserve' to be 7th to 10th based on performances. 

Effort - promotion levels

Tactics - mid-table

Skill and entertainment - bottom half

I was going to add discipline, which is pretty good, but maybe lacking a bit of street smarts sometimes. 

In terms of external factors, I think we have had a pretty tough time...

Referee decisions - good 

Injuries - extremely bad

Covid - bad

 

[Lenners]

1 minute ago, Bar BS3 said:

Ah OK. My apologise. 

I thought your point was that you couldn't get in there. 

So you've got the relaxed restrictions that you want, in your area of the ground already... 

 

No, my point is that the relaxed restrictions are being exploited by those who can't get tickets in a standing section in the ground meaning that I and others who are lucky enough to have a season ticket in there have their safety put at risk due to overcrowding in rows.

Honestly it's dangerous I've seen it end in tears when celebrating goals before, it's something I feel needs addressing hence contacting the club.

[mozo]

13 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

Jack Hunt is one of our better players I think, have we had a better right back since Orr?

That's an interesting comment because a lot of us were concerned when we recruited a peripheral Sheffield Wednesday player, but he's a regular starter for the 3rd season running now.

I've always thought we'll need to upgrade but he's even captained us in recent weeks which shows that he's really given 100% at City.

[spudski]

23 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We were playing this way at times under Johnson when we pretty much had a full complement of players available. You seem to be a very much statistics based person so how about looking at our serious injury statistics hand in hand with the rest of them? Do you really believe that long term injuries to Mawson (that's the really key one for me), Williams, Walsh and Sessegnon, meaning not only do we not have these players available but we also have to "over-play" the likes of Jack Hunt, make no difference to our statistics? Do you not think that Holden is being pragmatic and do you not think, given what has he said he is looking to achieve in terms of playing style, that the style and the statistics won't change when he has a full squad with his better players in key areas available to him?

How about a positive way of thinking that says our luck will change.......for the better when we get the injured players back? Or people can just be miserable bastards and literally ONLY find stuff to moan about rather than offering a balanced view when we are third in the table (lucky or otherwise). Its the typical, social media styled, polarised rubbish along the likes of "Zak Vyner is nowhere near good enough for this level" (a genuine comment made on here after the game on Saturday) that is actually depressing to read because it is so wide of the mark and such crap is only written because someone is angry and emotional at either a result or a performance or both, either that or more people genuinely don't have a clue than I thought.

I can see with my own eyes as well as stats, even when we had fit players.

All teams have got injuries, play many games and have covid problems.

My post is an observation based on all the facts, stats and watching.

In no way is it meant to be depressing. It's just an observation that we are winning games unconvincingly and eyes and stats back that up.

As for players coming back...yes they will...but they take many games to get up to speed again and others will get injured again as well as suspensions.

The point of my post, was to imply not to get carried away with our position and don't be surprised if we start losing, because all the warning signs are there.

[Bar BS3]

7 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

No, my point is that the relaxed restrictions are being exploited by those who can't get tickets in a standing section in the ground meaning that I and others who are lucky enough to have a season ticket in there have their safety put at risk due to overcrowding in rows.

Honestly it's dangerous I've seen it end in tears when celebrating goals before, it's something I feel needs addressing hence contacting the club.

You said the layout was all wrong. 

Sounds like it's more of a stewarding issue..? 

Usually S82 looks underpopulated from the Dolman. Moreso than the 10% SAG capacity reduction. 

Sounds more like those in there are bunching up, rather than hundreds of extra people surging in to over populate it. 

[Lenners]

6 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

You said the layout was all wrong. 

Sounds like it's more of a stewarding issue..? 

Usually S82 looks underpopulated from the Dolman. Moreso than the 10% SAG capacity reduction. 

Sounds more like those in there are bunching up, rather than hundreds of extra people surging in to over populate it. 

It's not a stewarding issue, it's an issue of non STHs who want to stand not being able to do so legally.

16 minutes ago, mozo said:

That's an interesting comment because a lot of us were concerned when we recruited a peripheral Sheffield Wednesday player, but he's a regular starter for the 3rd season running now.

I've always thought we'll need to upgrade but he's even captained us in recent weeks which shows that he's really given 100% at City.

59 starts in his 2 years at Wednesday for a side that finished 6th and 4th in fairness pal

[petehinton]

''Hello police, please help me, my football team doesn't win every game convincingly ''

I'd love to see a venn diagram of people who currently call us shit and dire to watch, vs people who wanted Warnock appointed to 'get us promoted'. Probably a 100% match.

[Sheltons Army]

46 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

The setup of the ground is wrong imo, standers are shunted out the way and there's no way of buying standing tickets. That was the main issue, and it's one that's being looked into.

AG is such a good ground, the layout of it is just wrong currently I think. 

I hope you had the time to tell them that our coaching is sub standard 

[Lrrr]

41 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

The ideal scenario is safe standing top half of the SS as well as the corner where it is now, the demand would be there I think and it'd get that whole stand rocking. That's just one proposal that the club claim they have already considered which is great.

The club would have looked into things like this but they're not viable until safe standing is given a go ahead, which is why S82 can't yet be expanded as we wouldn't get approval from SAG for it.

[mozo]

7 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

It's not a stewarding issue, it's an issue of non STHs who want to stand not being able to do so legally.

59 starts in his 2 years at Wednesday for a side that finished 6th and 4th in fairness pal

Yeah good point. I had a scan of Wiki to see if I could figure out why they moved him on, but I'm not sure to be honest. Liam Palmer played right back a bit for them but Hunt had kept him out the team prior. 

[Lenners]

12 minutes ago, petehinton said:

''Hello police, please help me, my football team doesn't win every game convincingly ''

I'd love to see a venn diagram of people who currently call us shit and dire to watch, vs people who wanted Warnock appointed to 'get us promoted'. Probably a 100% match.

We don't get promoted playing like this though, the last 2 and a half years we have and have fallen short every single time.

Given Holden was part of that setup, what's to say it won't happen again?

That's people's issue.

[Sheltons Army]

I wonder what other Clubs think of us if they were to come to our Forum , with us third in the table after another away win , with a thread entitled ‘DIRE’

If this is ‘dire’ , I’d hate to label some years and periods over the decades 

When did we become so entitled ?

[Lenners]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

Yeah good point. I had a scan of Wiki to see if I could figure out why they moved him on, but I'm not sure to be honest. Liam Palmer played right back a bit for them but Hunt had kept him out the team prior. 

I remember Lee Tomlin giving him a hellish afternoon a few years back when we beat them 4-1 under LJ. 

Played some good stuff that day.

[TonyTonyTony]

4 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

We don't get promoted playing like this though, the last 2 and a half years we have and have fallen short every single time.

Given Holden was part of that setup, what's to say it won't happen again?

That's people's issue.

I think you should probably find another hobby mate, as clearly watching city is not good for you. I mean - why are you bothering? You are not happy when we are winning, you have written off this season already, the manager wont do the job, we play shit football. 

Honestly whats the point? Go take up gardening and go moan in your shed

[Lenners]

Just now, TonyTonyTony said:

I think you should probably find another hobby mate, as clearly watching city is not good for you. I mean - why are you bothering? You are not happy when we are winning, you have written off this season already, the manager wont do the job, we play shit football. 

Honestly whats the point? Go take up gardening and go moan in your shed

Social aspect of football is the best of it for me really. Drinking all day, singing and chanting, celebrating goals, going to new grounds etc.

Sad that we've been deprived of it for so long really isn't it.

[Lrrr]

18 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

We don't get promoted playing like this though, the last 2 and a half years we have and have fallen short every single time.

Given Holden was part of that setup, what's to say it won't happen again?

That's people's issue.

What's to say it will? Holden has already shown a good level of tactical nous to be able to make changes and be able to effect the game with them, I feel a lot more comfortable when watching a Holden team trying to defend and see out a game than previously under Lee, I think we've seen out games that previously we'd have conceded and dropped points on. We can win 'dirty' under Holden where its not pleasant to watch but effective.