The Ghost of Johnson Past

[headhunter]

In this recording of last night's live Forever Bristol Bristol City Podcast Ian, Mark, DaveFevs & myself review yesterday's home game against the Blues, discuss LJ's appointment as Sunderland Head Coach and look at football finances "reset" in the aftermath of Covid19:

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/the-ghost-of-johnson-past

Yesterday was, in the main, similar to so many home games this past 2 1/2 years - overly cautious tactics, very little service to the strikers. Holden inexplicably changed tactics for the second half which seemed to destroy the slow build momentum of the first. Why start with two defensively minded full backs - did Mariappa cross the half way line once - and why open with the lacking in mobility hulk that is Chris Brunt. Very, very disappointing.

As for LJ,  I listened to his 6 minute long first post match interview - full of all the cliches that I was glad to see the back of. I think how he does will be one of extremes - he'll get them up this year and be a local hero or he will bomb very badly? What do you think?

Finally, any comments you have on FBC Podcast in General are most welcome

 

[GrahamC]

Very harsh on Brunt, but as he has become a scapegoat, no surprise.

Mariappa certainly did venture over the half way line, he made an excellent break making space for Wells, who chose to shoot instead. I really don’t think that is why he is in the side, though.

Said this beforehand but we knew what Brum would do, so although our options are limited by injury, yesterday (rather than Wednesday, when we will be up against it) was the game for Hunt & Dasilva rather than Mariappa & Rowe who are defensively more sound but offer less in attacking areas.

Felt Famara should have started yesterday too, has a recent goal against them, a fair bit of “history” & Martin hasn’t looked great in his last 2.

Otherwise with Bakinson working his way back we have little else.

[MC RISK77]

56 minutes ago, headhunter said:

In this recording of last night's live Forever Bristol Bristol City Podcast Ian, Mark, DaveFevs & myself review yesterday's home game against the Blues, discuss LJ's appointment as Sunderland Head Coach and look at football finances "reset" in the aftermath of Covid19:

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/the-ghost-of-johnson-past

Yesterday was, in the main, similar to so many home games this past 2 1/2 years - overly cautious tactics, very little service to the strikers. Holden inexplicably changed tactics for the second half which seemed to destroy the slow build momentum of the first. Why start with two defensively minded full backs - did Mariappa cross the half way line once - and why open with the lacking in mobility hulk that is Chris Brunt. Very, very disappointing.

As for LJ,  I listened to his 6 minute long first post match interview - full of all the cliches that I was glad to see the back of. I think how he does will be one of extremes - he'll get them up this year and be a local hero or he will bomb very badly? What do you think?

Finally, any comments you have on FBC Podcast in General are most welcome

 

Lacking in mobility hulk, pretty disrespectful  to an extremely good footballer who has had a fantastic career.

I accept he is well past his prime but he is not the only issue in our midfield.

[1960maaan]

17 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Very harsh on Brunt, but as he has become a scapegoat, no surprise.

Mariappa certainly did venture over the half way line, he made an excellent break making space for Wells, who chose to shoot instead. I really don’t think that is why he is in the side, though.

Said this beforehand but we knew what Brum would do, so although our options are limited by injury, yesterday (rather than Wednesday, when we will be up against it) was the game for Hunt & Dasilva rather than Mariappa & Rowe who are defensively more sound but offer less in attacking areas.

Felt Famara should have started yesterday too, has a recent goal against them, a fair bit of “history” & Martin hasn’t looked great in his last 2.

Otherwise with Bakinson working his way back we have little else.

I'm not sure he's a scapegoat (yet), he has been very poor so far, and yesterday dead balls aside, I don't think he contributed much.

I was surprised with the FB's yesterday. Against a side in poor form, scraping for points, and most likely to sit in we played out 2 most defensive options. Hunt and JD would have offered more going forward for sure. I would have gone for that, then if we needed to sure it up, change it later.

Also agree about Fam, I felt he would have pulled the CB's around more. Martin has suffered from poor service more than most. Lumping balls to him when there is no one playing off him is a thankless task.

Our options are very limited at the moment, but some of that is down to Holden. If HNM had been given a little game time he may have been more up to speed, looked very rusty in that cameo recently. 

I expect JD, Hunt, Bakinson and Fam to come in but not expecting much.

[Prinny]

46 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Very harsh on Brunt, but as he has become a scapegoat, no surprise.

What's the difference between a scapegoat and a player who you just don't rate or think is playing well?

I think he's ill suited for the role of the "6" physically which is why he has to foul so much, that he's not performing well at the things he's meant to be good at, which I would think would be passing and set pieces sicne our ball retention seems to be poor, and that he's taking minutes away from Nagy at the start of the season and Massengo* and Bakinson* (*fitness caveat) now.

If Brunt starts playing better, I think most people (some are very very biased towards certain people) will say he's playing well. I'm not blaming him for all the woes, just the woes I think he creates.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

I am alone in feeling that that thread after thread referencing our former Manager is getting ridiculous?

He prevented relegation , gave us  a couple of life-long feel good memories but ultimately didn't take us anywhere up or down. 

Move on ffs

[GrahamC]

45 minutes ago, Prinny said:

What's the difference between a scapegoat and a player who you just don't rate or think is playing well?

I think he's ill suited for the role of the "6" physically which is why he has to foul so much, that he's not performing well at the things he's meant to be good at, which I would think would be passing and set pieces sicne our ball retention seems to be poor, and that he's taking minutes away from Nagy at the start of the season and Massengo* and Bakinson* (*fitness caveat) now.

If Brunt starts playing better, I think most people (some are very very biased towards certain people) will say he's playing well. I'm not blaming him for all the woes, just the woes I think he creates.

I just thought he was better yesterday, not brilliant, probably 6/10 but the OP singled him out. 

As a for instance, I thought Martin was really poor yesterday but that doesn’t get mentioned, Brunt was really poor at times earlier in the season but he is now becoming shorthand for why we lost (it was 0-0 when he came off, by the way) no matter what.

It seems obvious now Nagy should have featured more early on, but that is down to Holden, not Brunt.

[Prinny]

20 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I just thought he was better yesterday, not brilliant, probably 6/10 but the OP singled him out. 

As a for instance, I thought Martin was really poor yesterday but that doesn’t get mentioned, Brunt was really poor at times earlier in the season but he is now becoming shorthand for why we lost (it was 0-0 when he came off, by the way) no matter what.

It seems obvious now Nagy should have featured more early on, but that is down to Holden, not Brunt.

I think we often criticise a player in the moment when the point is really about the manager selecting him. I dunno if that needs to be said all the time though. It's always the managers fault if they sign and pick a player unless the player is deliberately not trying and there's clear evidence of that. Ultimately whoever is in the most control of a situation is at fault.

I think Brunt was "better" yesterday, having a second "6" helps him a lot, or rather lets him not get exposed as much. Was he better or was the game more suited to him with Birmingham sitting back and him having someone alongside him?

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I think we often criticise a player in the moment when the point is really about the manager selecting him. I dunno if that needs to be said all the time though. It's always the managers fault if they sign and pick a player unless the player is deliberately not trying and there's clear evidence of that. Ultimately whoever is in the most control of a situation is at fault.

I think Brunt was "better" yesterday, having a second "6" helps him a lot, or rather lets him not get exposed as much. Was he better or was the game more suited to him with Birmingham sitting back and him having someone alongside him?

Good question!

Probably a bit of both in truth, I think he has been badly lacking confidence (& often he seems to be admonishing himself after a poor pass) but there were signs in the second half at QPR that he is getting some form back.

I don’t see him as a regular at any point but until others return, think he has a part to play.

[mozo]

I actually thought the pod's verdict was a bit harsh. I didn't think it was so abject a performance. The first half, we were dominant, and if O'Dowda and Semenyo had more killer instinct, we'd have scored a couple. Second half, fair enough it was more like the QPR first half.

[Prinny]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Good question!

Probably a bit of both in truth, I think he has been badly lacking confidence (& often he seems to be admonishing himself after a poor pass) but there were signs in the second half at QPR that he is getting some form back.

I don’t see him as a regular at any point but until others return, think he has a part to play.

Is that a potential "I'm frustrated because I'm not able to do what I think I can do or used to be able to do"? I really worry if it's one of those "my legs had gone, i shouldn't have played" things you hear after they retire.

The role he was best in this season was coming on when we had a lead, and settling down those around him, and killing the game when they're chasing. He was excellent against Stoke in that role. And that was in a two with Bakinson.

[headhunter]

As the OP, on reflection I was harsh calling Brunt a "hulk". I think I let my frustrations get the better of me! He's proving as much a disappointment as Gary O'Neill turned out to be. He came with the pedigree of 3 promotions to the Premier League on his CV. 

Like most have said since I believe if we had maintained the first half shape we MAY have got something  - thing is we didn't and no one but Holden and his assistants, Tweedle-dum & Tweedle-dee will know why.

Yesterday was like so many home performances under LJ this past 2.5 years that were making the trip to Ashton Gate a chore out of loyalty [53 years] rather than hopeful anticipation. Imagine yesterday if we had lost 2-3 but it had been a cracking game of football. Yes,  we would have all moaned about losing but at least we might have seen something to look forward to: Vyner's continuing emergence as a top class defender [not being judged for losing his man for the only goal], O'Dowda at last showing his talent after an extended run in the side [if you listen to the pod I'm his greatest critic but have praised him of late], Semenyo blossoming as a forward and maybe even scoring. But it wasn't like that with Holden playing a cautious style against a side that were without a win in their previous 6 games.

This is so much like last season - doing just enough to win more than lose but playing to a standard that is not top 6 IMHO. Holden has had 20 games in charge now and other than Boro away tail end of last season and Stoke away this can anyone say we've looked convincing for an entire 90 minutes? At the same time, trying to offer balance the comebacks against Huddersfield and QPR were impressive but prior to in both those games we were abject.

 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Prinny said:

Is that a potential "I'm frustrated because I'm not able to do what I think I can do or used to be able to do"? I really worry if it's one of those "my legs had gone, i shouldn't have played" things you hear after they retire.

The role he was best in this season was coming on when we had a lead, and settling down those around him, and killing the game when they're chasing. He was excellent against Stoke in that role. And that was in a two with Bakinson.

Agree with all of that.

I must admit earlier in the season I was thinking this looks like a bloke who is past it, completely gone but second half midweek & first half yesterday I could at least see a contribution.

The role you suggest may well be the one we use him in once Bakinson is fully fit, coming on late to replace a tiring Tyreeq or Adam Nagy.

[1960maaan]

4 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Not sure if Holden is thinking about going back to 352. I bet he doesn't know what the best system is, which if so is a bit of a worry.

He's a novice manager, I think he's trying things to get us through a period of bad injuries. The 3-5-2 looked to be working, the change was necessary due to more injuries , and we were coping.  When it doesn't work it can look horrible, we have been pragmatic and scoring just enough to get points but the stand out thing for me yesterday was how Martin was left on his own. It seemed a 4-3-3 with almost too much width, Wells one side and Semenyo the other, but neither close enough to CM to play off of him. COD having success running from MF made it look like the game was there for us. The tweak didn't work, but he went to win it. I would have liked to see him change it back when we started to struggle, sadly he doesn't seem like a proactive manager, he let things go until it was too late. 

I still think we have to give him a chance until his first choice XI is available. It is very much a patched up team with at least 4 players out that would start, possibly more. I think we could pick holes in his line up's, but I want to see that team he had in his head when he bought Williams. I'm just glad we have picked up points or the internet would be in meltdown, unattractive football and a losing team are not a great pairing.

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Agree with all of that.

I must admit earlier in the season I was thinking this looks like a bloke who is past it, completely gone but second half midweek & first half yesterday I could at least see a contribution.

The role you suggest may well be the one we use him in once Bakinson is fully fit, coming on late to replace a tiring Tyreeq or Adam Nagy.

His best game for us was Swansea at home.  He’s not near that level since, although was ok yesterday first half, but not ok second half as Brum ran the midfield.  Not his fault admittedly.

 

[Harry]

9 hours ago, headhunter said:

As the OP, on reflection I was harsh calling Brunt a "hulk". I think I let my frustrations get the better of me! He's proving as much a disappointment as Gary O'Neill turned out to be. He came with the pedigree of 3 promotions to the Premier League on his CV. 

Like most have said since I believe if we had maintained the first half shape we MAY have got something  - thing is we didn't and no one but Holden and his assistants, Tweedle-dum & Tweedle-dee will know why.

Yesterday was like so many home performances under LJ this past 2.5 years that were making the trip to Ashton Gate a chore out of loyalty [53 years] rather than hopeful anticipation. Imagine yesterday if we had lost 2-3 but it had been a cracking game of football. Yes,  we would have all moaned about losing but at least we might have seen something to look forward to: Vyner's continuing emergence as a top class defender [not being judged for losing his man for the only goal], O'Dowda at last showing his talent after an extended run in the side [if you listen to the pod I'm his greatest critic but have praised him of late], Semenyo blossoming as a forward and maybe even scoring. But it wasn't like that with Holden playing a cautious style against a side that were without a win in their previous 6 games.

This is so much like last season - doing just enough to win more than lose but playing to a standard that is not top 6 IMHO. Holden has had 20 games in charge now and other than Boro away tail end of last season and Stoke away this can anyone say we've looked convincing for an entire 90 minutes? At the same time, trying to offer balance the comebacks against Huddersfield and QPR were impressive but prior to in both those games we were abject.

 

No, you were right first time Dave. He’s a hulk. 
He’s dreadful. 
Keep up the good work on the pod. Hope Mark’s cat is ok. And tell Ian, if he wants to plug his Twitter account, perhaps he should unblock people whom he’s previously blocked for simple disagreements

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

No, you were right first time Dave. He’s a hulk. 
He’s dreadful. 
Keep up the good work on the pod. Hope Mark’s cat is ok. And tell Ian, if he wants to plug his Twitter account, perhaps he should unblock people whom he’s previously blocked for simple disagreements

He was steaming when I joined the pod just before live.

Think I upset him with my tweet to Geoff.

[Northern Red]

That's no way to talk about the best manager that Bristol City have never had, lads.

Anyway, I thought he was "finished" with the club? That's what he said in the summer.

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

That's no way to talk about the best manager that Bristol City have never had, lads.

Anyway, I thought he was "finished" with the club? That's what he said in the summer.

Ian is an opinionated guy and in his view he couldn’t possibly be wrong about anything.................

He does talk a good game tho.

He rabbits on about formations when in reality formations are so last year. The team set up is about the players, who since Deano has taken over concentrate more on ‘fluidity’ at Failand.

Obviously knowledge of the player positions tells anyone how many CBs, full backs, midfielders and forwards there are but it doesn’t matter if the shape is 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 or any other formations because it’s evolves during any game.

Lots of pseudo intellectual guff talked about the merits of formations.

[Charlie BCFC]

On 06/12/2020 at 09:44, GrahamC said:

Very harsh on Brunt, but as he has become a scapegoat, no surprise.

Mariappa certainly did venture over the half way line, he made an excellent break making space for Wells, who chose to shoot instead. I really don’t think that is why he is in the side, though.

Said this beforehand but we knew what Brum would do, so although our options are limited by injury, yesterday (rather than Wednesday, when we will be up against it) was the game for Hunt & Dasilva rather than Mariappa & Rowe who are defensively more sound but offer less in attacking areas.

Felt Famara should have started yesterday too, has a recent goal against them, a fair bit of “history” & Martin hasn’t looked great in his last 2.

Otherwise with Bakinson working his way back we have little else.

Personally thought Brunt played well yesterday and when he came off it felt like that’s when Birmingham got in to the game. Both Martin and Wells for me struggled. Would bring Bakinson, Hunt, Fam and possibly JD in for Tuesday (although Rowe may deal with Elliot better physically)

[italian dave]

On 06/12/2020 at 10:35, JonDolman said:

Agree Brunt has mainly been poor. Though he is better with someone alongside him and another a bit more advanced pressing. Nagy and O'Dowda don't stop running so ideal for Brunt in that first half.

Not sure if people have been saying this or not, but I thought Nagy was superb. And O'Dowda our biggest threat which we lost 2nd half when moved out wide and didnt have the freedom with having to help out a lot defensively and was not free to stretch the opposition with runs he had been making first half.

I am not surprised Holden carried on with that exact same 2nd half line up that won midweek.

He obviously thought the momentum would carry on. Well, defensively we looked solid and almost got in enough to make me think we could build on that and go on and win the game in the 2nd half. Holden messed it up though changing shape. Brunt's lack of mobility really showed then once playing with O'Dowda no longer central.

There's the momentum of the midweek 2nd half performance, but I also wonder whether sticking with Mariappa and Rowe may have been to help us defend corners. Both very good in the air, even if they are both short, they are strong and aggressive. Mariappa got a great leap on him, Rowe seems to wrestle with players well on corners and deals pretty well with whoever he is marking.

So if that was part of Holden's thinking then its a bit of an LJ type negative decision for me. Though not really against it too much as we were the better side whilst playing 4231. I would defenitely have started Dasilva though. 

Fam for me looks a better lone striker than Martin. He is more mobile, better in the lone role at chesting down high balls too. Wins more in the air.

The right side is a bit of a problem with Wells there. Hunt would offer more going forward than Mariappa, but I don't think Mariappa is too bad going forward. He makes runs to create space and does the basics on the ball well enough. The main problem is Wells is not a winger for me.

Not sure if Holden is thinking about going back to 352. I bet he doesn't know what the best system is, which if so is a bit of a worry.

Agree with all of this Jon.

We looked better after the half time adjustments at QPR - and in particular using Rowe instead of Dasilva in a back 4 was a huge improvement  so it wasn't a surprise. It's too easy sometimes to criticise selection decisions in hindsight. Holden got stick after the Reading game for selecting the same back 5 that did so well v Watford. 

Still unconvinced by Brunt, but he certainly looked better with two runners nearer to him.

We've seen Fam's strengths as a lone striker - although have to say that's been evident away from home maybe more than at home - and especially against sides that just come to defend (as Birmingham did). Where we've not seen Fam, and I'd like to, is as part of a front 3. 

I can't decide whether Wells is a Tony Thorpe type who just scores goals and will always get criticised when he doesn't, because workmate (a la Fam) isn't his game. Or whether he just doesn't want to be here/thinks he's better than Bristol City. 

And yes, your final point is a worry - even more so since we seem to be playing systems that don't seem to fit half the players in whatever system we decide to try. 

[Curr Avon]

15 hours ago, Harry said:

No, you were right first time Dave. He’s a hulk. 
He’s dreadful. 
Keep up the good work on the pod. Hope Mark’s cat is ok. And tell Ian, if he wants to plug his Twitter account, perhaps he should unblock people whom he’s previously blocked for simple disagreements

Thanks for the thoughts Harry. Sadly, our 17-year old cat Alfie had to be put down on Saturday night. My wife and daughter have been in floods of tears since. Pets eh?

Appreciate your comments on the pod too. 

On a football note, lets be bullish and expect a big performance on Wednesday against Blackburn. 

 

[Pezo]

Not wanting to be downbeat but I have un subscribed, I don't always get time to listen and there is so much of it that I struggle to keep up with (I think because its recorded live), I like structured discussions and it bounces around quite a bit. Love listening to Fevs but he has a section on OSIB so I pick up most of what he has to say on there. 

I have noticed with other podcasts I don't like the player's scoring, it feels like your all sat there with notepads and it doesn't work in that format for me - in text it's usually used as a comparison (for me it is anyway) and sounding a bit dense I don't want to have to try and remember what different people scored different players and miss the point about why they scored them that way, It's also one step removed from what I really want to hear about which is opinion based on what that person saw (rather than a score of the opinion of what that person saw).

[Nogbad the Bad]

4 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Thanks for the thoughts Harry. Sadly, our 17-year old cat Alfie had to be put down on Saturday night. My wife and daughter have been in floods of tears since. Pets eh?

 

Only your wife and daughter? 

Had to have our 20 year old Ginge, George, put down in April. I couldn't be with him at the end due to the lockdown, I had to hand him over to the vet on the doorstep of the surgery. 3 years after his 18 year sister Mopsy.

They were so much part of the family, so friendly and so well loved we didn't know if we could bear to replace them with any more cats but we gradually accepted we are a 'catty family' and in October got 2 little 8 week old beauties from a rescue home.

When you have old cats it's easy to forget how energetic and good fun younger cats are - although our 2 little 'uns have been neutered today so that'll slow them down for a bit!

You'll never forget Alfie, but after a while hopefully your family will feel able to bring another cat or 2 into what is obviously a very loving home.  

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

5 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Thanks for the thoughts Harry. Sadly, our 17-year old cat Alfie had to be put down on Saturday night. My wife and daughter have been in floods of tears since. Pets eh?

Appreciate your comments on the pod too. 

On a football note, lets be bullish and expect a big performance on Wednesday against Blackburn. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Only your wife and daughter? 

Had to have our 20 year old Ginge, George, put down in April. I couldn't be with him at the end due to the lockdown, I had to hand him over to the vet on the doorstep of the surgery. 3 years after his 18 year sister Mopsy.

They were so much part of the family, so friendly and so well loved we didn't know if we could bear to replace them with any more cats but we gradually accepted we are a 'catty family' and in October got 2 little 8 week old beauties from a rescue home.

When you have old cats it's easy to forget how energetic and good fun younger cats are - although our 2 little 'uns have been neutered today so that'll slow them down for a bit!

You'll never forget Alfie, but after a while hopefully your family will feel able to bring another cat or 2 into what is obviously a very loving home.  

 

On a similar note we lost our 18 year old Jack Russell, Belle, about four weeks ago. I still have a little weep now and again in a quiet moment.

We`re still undecided whether to get another dog or not - we`ll leave it till after Christmas now before making our minds up.

[Curr Avon]

31 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Only your wife and daughter? 

Had to have our 20 year old Ginge, George, put down in April. I couldn't be with him at the end due to the lockdown, I had to hand him over to the vet on the doorstep of the surgery. 3 years after his 18 year sister Mopsy.

They were so much part of the family, so friendly and so well loved we didn't know if we could bear to replace them with any more cats but we gradually accepted we are a 'catty family' and in October got 2 little 8 week old beauties from a rescue home.

When you have old cats it's easy to forget how energetic and good fun younger cats are - although our 2 little 'uns have been neutered today so that'll slow them down for a bit!

You'll never forget Alfie, but after a while hopefully your family will feel able to bring another cat or 2 into what is obviously a very loving home.  

 

Thanks Noggers, and sorry to hear about Ginge. We're lucky to still have the company of our 6-year old Tortoiseshell Binky (Made in Chelsea has a lot to answer for). I was never a cat person until Alfie came along, and if you'd ever heard me speaking to either of them I sound(ed) like a bigger prat than I do on Radio Bristol.

[Curr Avon]

25 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

 

On a similar note we lost our 18 year old Jack Russell, Belle, about four weeks ago. I still have a little weep now and again in a quiet moment.

We`re still undecided whether to get another dog or not - we`ll leave it till after Christmas now before making our minds up.

Thanks LR and sorry to hear about Belle.

[reddoh]

I have a sixty year old Ginge can I take her to the Vets?

 

PS Sorry for your loss guys.