PSG Vs Istanbul Basaksehir postponed due to comments made by 4th official

[Northern Red]

Deflect, deny, whatabout 

Every time

 

[Taz]

12 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Unfortunate.

Following, e.g. a mugging, when describing to the Police the suspect amongst a crowd of young people it is surely acceptable to describe him/her as the black/ginger/fat guy sitting in the corner.

At a football match, I suspect 'Number 11' or the Coach might have sufficed....

But, would a description of 'the bloke with long blond hair', e.g. Robbie Savage, have caused offence?

Quite. I mean it's not like they don't wear giant numbers on their backs is it!!

End of the day the reaction of the players - on both sides - should be enough to tell you that what was said was not right. I can't remember seeing/hearing that both teams have agreed to walk off the field because of something like this before.

[Maesknoll Red]

20 minutes ago, !james said:

The guy with the hat, the guy with PW initials on his tracksuit, the guy stood there and can point to him etc etc.

When was the last time you heard someone refer to a coaching staff member as "the white guy"?

If there was one ‘white guy’ on the bench amongst  black coaches would it be wrong to identify him as such?  

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

19 minutes ago, !james said:

The guy with the hat, the guy with PW initials on his tracksuit, the guy stood there and can point to him etc etc.

When was the last time you heard someone refer to a coaching staff member as "the white guy"?

You're really grasping at strawers now.

It's not an uncommon way of saying something. 

I can't work out if you are just determined to hope this was a racist comment.

I'd bet you are gutted Millwall didn't boo tonight 

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

4 minutes ago, Taz said:

Quite. I mean it's not like they don't wear giant numbers on their backs is it!!

End of the day the reaction of the players - on both sides - should be enough to tell you that what was said was not right. I can't remember seeing/hearing that both teams have agreed to walk off the field because of something like this before.

All other reports stating it was about a member of staff.

He would have same tracksuit etc as others on bench.

Don't forget there's 12 subs and numerous staff around the dugouts

[MC RISK77]

46 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

Doesn’t make it racist...the woke society will now ensure the fourth officials career is over purely for using the word ‘black’

So do you think the fourth official would have used the white guy to describe one of the white players?

I don’t think he would

Glad the players have taken a stand, it needs more action like this to eradicate ignorance rather than the token knee gesture.

Sure it will get a clip round the knuckles from uefa 

[phantom]

Game will be completed tomorrow 

5:55pm GMT Kick off

Game will continue from time played 

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

1 minute ago, MC RISK77 said:

So do you think the fourth official would have used the white guy to describe one of the white players?

I don’t think he would

Glad the players have taken a stand, it needs more action like this to eradicate ignorance rather than the token knee gesture.

Sure it will get a clip round the knuckles from uefa 

Here we go again. 

There is two gingers sat next to each other.

Do you think someone could point and say, that ginger one

[MC RISK77]

Just now, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Here we go again. 

There is two gingers sat next to each other.

Do you think someone could point and say, that ginger one

Here we go again what? Go on, why should anyone be labelled by the colour of their skin, players have numbers and names on their backs...not hard to not use the colour of their skin to identify them 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

I guess the difference is subtle but significant. Of course you can describe someone by their ethnicity. The above comment regarding a police description is a fine example. I have been mugged in the past, and it was by two black men. As part of the description as part of my police statement, I stated that they were black. However if they were white, I'd have said they were white. Anyone who says something stupid like "I don't see race" is an embarrassment as our skin colour is the most visually obvious part of our family heritage, and many people are proud of this.

The difference here is it is being used in a way that 'White Guy' wouldn't. If, in my mugging example, I was later shown a line up of people, and I saw my mugger, it would be wrong to point at him and say 'that black guy'. Instead I should point as say, 'that guy', or something similar. 

[RedRaw]

2 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

So do you think the fourth official would have used the white guy to describe one of the white players?

I don’t think he would

Glad the players have taken a stand, it needs more action like this to eradicate ignorance rather than the token knee gesture.

Sure it will get a clip round the knuckles from uefa 

Firstly, it was referring to a coach not a player. Secondly, as maesknoll red mentioned, if it were a bench full of black coaches and the fourth official picked out ‘the white coach’, I’m pretty certain nobody would be offended. 

let’s be clear, the term used was ‘black’ to identify someone rather than as a racial slur......I certainly know I have used it in the same way previously to describe an opposition player I didn’t know, for instance, “the black kid up front is causing us problems” ......does that suddenly make me a racist?
 

 

[MC RISK77]

10 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

Here we go again what? Go on, why should anyone be labelled by the colour of their skin, players have numbers and names on their backs...not hard to not use the colour of their skin to identify them 

Just seen it was mentioned to a member of coaching staff so numbers and names are irrelevant however having still does not make it right.

[Jeez]

It’s pretty simple really & if you’ve been discriminated against its bloody obvious.

Identifying an individual who’s suffered historic prejudices by the key aspect of their identity by which they’ve prejudiced for, is just more prejudice whether it is intended or not.

To be in a position to adjudicate a game featuring competitors from all backgrounds and countries is a poor show by UEFA not to have spent more time to ensure officials are knowledge global citizens who have a broad understanding of such matters.

[IAmNick]

Interesting how many people here would presumably refer to "the one black guy" in their office or a meeting at work as "the black guy" when talking about him.

There can be no bad intentions (as it sounds like was possible in this instance) and it can still be a foolish or insensitive thing to say.

[A Horse With No Name]

I just wonder why then, people are calling for more black managers, if skin colour should not be a determining factor ? My opinion is that racism will only ever be totally defeated, when people can say terms like 'black guy', in a non derogatory way, and no one gets offended. This 4th official obviously thought we were getting there, hence the term would not cause offence, but the reaction to it is what is setting the cause back. In my opinion.

[Baba Yaga]

Can see why it was taken badly initially but after walking off i feel things should have been cleared up and that the game should have probably been completed this evening. Shame that a misunderstanding can't be resolved without all this drama, I wonder if the Turkish president will make a comment to add even more fuel to the fire as he is heavily linked to the club.

[Red-Robbo]

I suppose I'd want to know the full facts before I made a judgement.

"Ref. I've been sworn at by one of the coaches" - "Which one?" - "The black guy. I don't know his name."

Is a bit more innocent than.

"Ref. Can you have a word with the black guy. He swore at me."

It's subtle, but the inflection in the later is very unfortunate, to say the least.

 

(PS: I'm not saying Webo swore. Those sentences were only for illustration)

[AshtonGreat]

If you were having a discussion about the girl band All Saints and someone said 'Which one is Shaznay Lewis?', surely most people would say 'She's the black girl.' It's not meant in a derogatory way, it just makes it easier to identify her among three white girls? I dunno, I'm just trying to make a comparison... 

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

Can see why it was taken badly initially but after walking off i feel things should have been cleared up and that the game should have probably been completed this evening. Shame that a misunderstanding can't be resolved without all this drama, I wonder if the Turkish president will make a comment to add even more fuel to the fire as he is heavily linked to the club.

How do you know it was a misunderstanding? I’ve not seen any confirmation of what was said and in what context and tone. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

Blatant racism? Stereotypes? Explicit and/or implicit bias?

A difficult subject, and probably difficult to understand truly if one is a WASP.

[A Horse With No Name]

Watching Police Interceptors last night and the cops were chasing two suspects around the streets. The cop in the car said on his radio that they were in pursuit of 2 black men, in hoodies and jeans. Is this wrong, or stating a fact to help his fellow officers trace them ?

[Jeez]

9 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

I just wonder why then, people are calling for more black managers, if skin colour should not be a determining factor ? My opinion is that racism will only ever be totally defeated, when people can say terms like 'black guy', in a non derogatory way, and no one gets offended. This 4th official obviously thought we were getting there, hence the term would not cause offence, but the reaction to it is what is setting the cause back. In my opinion.

To make that comment about managers is to deny 100 years of history, we all know it’s taken decades for acceptance to build and steps to be made but there’s still a long way to go. 

Hypothetically, would you say it is acceptable if a dinner lady described a kid in the playground as the black kid?

If true the 4th official is not ahead of his time but is ignorant & doesn’t deserve the honour of officiating a CL match or the respect of the players. 

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, Red Alert said:

To make that comment about managers is to deny 100 years of history, we all know it’s taken decades for acceptance to build and steps to be made but there’s still a long way to go. 

Hypothetically, would you say it is acceptable if a dinner lady described a kid in the playground as the black kid?

If true the 4th official is not ahead of his time but is ignorant & doesn’t deserve the honour of officiating a CL match or the respect of the players. 

I would say, honestly no she shouldn't. BUT she should be able to. One day, hopefully she will be.

[Jeez]

19 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

If you were having a discussion about the girl band All Saints and someone said 'Which one is Shaznay Lewis?', surely most people would say 'She's the black girl.' It's not meant in a derogatory way, it just makes it easier to identify her among three white girls? I dunno, I'm just trying to make a comparison... 

But we’re not taking about 90’s girls bands down the pub, this is about an official who’s tasked with managing a match played diverse, multicultural figures

[Jeez]

1 minute ago, The Horse With No Name said:

I would say, honestly no she shouldn't. BUT she should be able to. One day, hopefully she will be.

True, but don’t think it will ever happen, the past was just too messed up; slavery, apartheid, segregation etc. Those are deep wounds to heal and driven by skin colour. So that identifier is just too associated.

[AshtonGreat]

1 minute ago, Red Alert said:

But we’re taking about 90’s girls bands down the pub, this is about an official who’s tasked with managing a match played diverse, multicultural figures

To be fair, they made a comeback in the Noughties

[Baba Yaga]

17 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

How do you know it was a misunderstanding? I’ve not seen any confirmation of what was said and in what context and tone. 

Just what I have read news reports and that nothing confirmed, black in Romanian is negru and that's apparently what the coach was referred to as, you can see why it would cause offense initially but I think there's also an innocent explanation and that it should have been resolved after a conversation.

[And Its Smith]

15 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

Watching Police Interceptors last night and the cops were chasing two suspects around the streets. The cop in the car said on his radio that they were in pursuit of 2 black men, in hoodies and jeans. Is this wrong, or stating a fact to help his fellow officers trace them ?

That isn’t wrong. If they were white they’d be described as two white men so clearly not wrong. Nice whataboutism though 

[joe jordans teeth]

It’s interesting that in a game which was between 2 well known racist cities that the players have decided to make a point only for the powers that be say alreet we will start the game back up in a couple of days

[joe jordans teeth]

21 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

Watching Police Interceptors last night and the cops were chasing two suspects around the streets. The cop in the car said on his radio that they were in pursuit of 2 black men, in hoodies and jeans. Is this wrong, or stating a fact to help his fellow officers trace them ?

Totally different in my eyes,this situation is like Fury fighting AJ in boxing and the commentators saying the black bloke is taking a hiding