If our wingbacks don’t get forward we wont win

[Better Red]

I have said on here before our wingbacks don’t get forward enough for me. If as I suspect tomorrow we will go to a 5 at the back. If it’s not Hunt and D’Silva staring then I just don’t see us winning. They also need to be given full licence to get forward and get beyond Blackburn’s full backs. I am not sure I can take another 90 mins of playing in front of the oppositions back 4. Blackburn will have more position and will be more offensive so we have no excuse. We have to turn the ball over quicker and the transition has to be quicker. We have to pass in between the lines and turn there back four. Hunt and DSilva will have to be prepared to take on their men and get nearer to the byline when delivering balls into the box. Wells has to be given a chance to run on to balls played in front of him. Bakinson and Pato if fit have to play to be able to make those passes. O’Dowda or Seymeno have to have shots on target that makes the goal keeper work. They have been pretty good recently but neither carry a goal threat and I am not convinced we can have both of them in the same team. I don’t think  I am asking to much. We have a team with the raw ingredients to do it. So is it the players or the manager. Either way something has got to change. Yes we are riding pretty high in the league but the football has been pretty poor if we are honest. Results are much better than the performances. I want the performances to match the results and see something that resembles entertainment. No shots on target in the first half is becoming a trend and something I have started to expect. For me that’s simply not good enough. We all want success but I also won’t to enjoy my football. Even the games we have won  I have watched most of the games behind my eyes and praying for the final whistle.  So come on Deano entertain us. 

[Hampshire Red]

And if we score more than Blackburn, we may just win. 

Smart thinking but even if we do win, like at QPR, if it isn't as entertaining as Match of the Day highlights, we'll have something to moan about and keep the forum busy? 

[phantom]

Interesting post, but PLEASE space your posts out so easier to read 

[Robbored]

I’ve said on here before that since the days of Tinnion City have not had a creative midfielder. Whilst Nagy is tidy he is nonetheless lightweight and there’s no other midfielders available to add some creativity. Not Massengo - he’s just as lightweight as Nagy.

Its in the engine room that the injuries have hurt the most - with Walsh and or Williams available City would be a different threat as it would if Wiemann was available.

[Better Red]

8 minutes ago, phantom said:

Interesting post, but PLEASE space your posts out so easier to read 

Will do thanks

[Red-Robbo]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

I’ve said on here before that since the days of Tinnion City have not had a creative midfielder.

 Paul Hartley? Evander Sno?

[Bernard Lerring]

4 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 Paul Hartley

Agreed. Crazy to overlook / not count Hartley in a list of creative midfielders.

He was an entertainer that would improve this squad massively *wipes away nostalgic tear from eye*

[cidered abroad]

9 hours ago, Better Red said:

I have said on here before our wingbacks don’t get forward enough for me. If as I suspect tomorrow we will go to a 5 at the back. If it’s not Hunt and D’Silva staring then I just don’t see us winning. They also need to be given full licence to get forward and get beyond Blackburn’s full backs. I am not sure I can take another 90 mins of playing in front of the oppositions back 4. Blackburn will have more position and will be more offensive so we have no excuse. We have to turn the ball over quicker and the transition has to be quicker. We have to pass in between the lines and turn there back four. Hunt and DSilva will have to be prepared to take on their men and get nearer to the byline when delivering balls into the box. Wells has to be given a chance to run on to balls played in front of him. Bakinson and Pato if fit have to play to be able to make those passes. O’Dowda or Seymeno have to have shots on target that makes the goal keeper work. They have been pretty good recently but neither carry a goal threat and I am not convinced we can have both of them in the same team. I don’t think  I am asking to much. We have a team with the raw ingredients to do it. So is it the players or the manager. Either way something has got to change. Yes we are riding pretty high in the league but the football has been pretty poor if we are honest. Results are much better than the performances. I want the performances to match the results and see something that resembles entertainment. No shots on target in the first half is becoming a trend and something I have started to expect. For me that’s simply not good enough. We all want success but I also won’t to enjoy my football. Even the games we have won  I have watched most of the games behind my eyes and praying for the final whistle.  So come on Deano entertain us. 

This appears to be our "Defined" style of play as Holden is apparently continuing the method instigated by LJ and, even going back a decade, GJ.

It's dull, boring, and will lose supporters and matches. The object of professional sport is to entertain and try to win. Our game plan now is nil entertainment and trying not to lose.

[Robbored]

5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 Paul Hartley? Evander Sno?

Neither were at City for very long. 

[Clutton Caveman]

11 hours ago, Robbored said:

I’ve said on here before that since the days of Tinnion City have not had a creative midfielder. Whilst Nagy is tidy he is nonetheless lightweight and there’s no other midfielders available to add some creativity. Not Massengo - he’s just as lightweight as Nagy.

Its in the engine room that the injuries have hurt the most - with Walsh and or Williams available City would be a different threat as it would if Wiemann was available.

We had a creative midfielder and we loaned him to Swansea. The problem today is that creative players also need to do their defensive work. Teams are set up so well nowadays, if you have a player that won't track back it is exploited.

Its hard enough to find that flair midfielder but to find one with a work ethic too is even harder.

You can have the opposite like Wiemann, nobody could run more however his final ball is mostly poor and he is prone to stupid stuff close to our box.

In the absence of the 2 W's I think Bakinson is the best option we have at the moment, simply because he always tries to pass forwards and is strong enough to hold his own when it gets physical. Yes he will make mistakes because he is young but I would prefer to play him to get experience than play Brunt who is past his best

[cidered abroad]

What a difference between City and Blackburn.

We are a couple of points ahead of them. But it's how they are there that is interesting.

Blackburn have scored 31 goals with Adam Armstrong scoring 14.

We have only scored 19!

Another low scoring boredom for us? How many will BRFC put past us tonight?

[mozo]

There will be spells of the game in which we're on top, and unlike some recent games we need to make the pressure count. If you're dominating games it has to translate into goals.

[Jaimieb123]

In my opinion there are a number of things wrong with our home performances. I think a back 5 is the right formation we just aren't playing it well.

1 - We play 2 holding midfield players at home

2 - The wing backs don't get forward enough

3 - No runners from midfield 

4 - We are scared to shoot (Semenyo the exception)

We need to start taking the game to our opposition like was promised. It is simple really, push the wing backs forward, have one holding midfielder drop in to make a back 3 when the wingbacks are high up the pitch. When defending, wingbacks drop in and make a back 5. When we lump a long ball up to Martin/Fam have midfielders running in behind. You can see the frustration in Martin when he wins the header and there is nobody there. AND SHOOT! 

[fatchers]

If we can't stop giving the ball away tonight, I fear Blackburn have the fire power to do us real damage. Even our throw in end up with the opposition. Most of all we need to get more shots in, if we don't shoot we don't score.  I'd like to see some variation to our set pieces too. 

[phantom]

The odd thing is that these problems are nothing new

Our home form has been dismal for years now, it certainly can't be because of crowd pressures anymore.

 

[extonsred]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

The odd thing is that these problems are nothing new

Our home form has been dismal for years now, it certainly can't be because of crowd pressures anymore.

 

...and our problem for years is not having strong powerful midfielders that aren't brushed off the ball at the slightest challenge. That or they turn and play it back from offensive positions far too often.

Strange isn't it that when Deano started we suddenly saw attractive more aggressive football. Why has he as everyone says returned to the football that seems to define BCFC?

[Baldyman]

Agree ALMOST entirely with the added concern that whilst Jack and Jay are undoubtedly our best full backs , they have neither the pace or strength to be potent wing backs at the top end of the league . JD  in particular just can’t out pace anyone down the flank so for me , we either ditch 3-5-2 or invest and offload in January ? 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

We had a creative midfielder and we loaned him to Swansea. The problem today is that creative players also need to do their defensive work. Teams are set up so well nowadays, if you have a player that won't track back it is exploited.

Its hard enough to find that flair midfielder but to find one with a work ethic too is even harder.

You can have the opposite like Wiemann, nobody could run more however his final ball is mostly poor and he is prone to stupid stuff close to our box.

In the absence of the 2 W's I think Bakinson is the best option we have at the moment, simply because he always tries to pass forwards and is strong enough to hold his own when it gets physical. Yes he will make mistakes because he is young but I would prefer to play him to get experience than play Brunt who is past his best

Good post.

The bit in bold in particular is key for me.  I’m not lumping an unfair weight of expectation on Tyreeq, but generally over the past couple of seasons it is games against Birmingham, Millwall, Preston and Blackburn where any weakness in our physicality has shown up.  Other weaknesses might be exposed by other teams, e.g. the Norwich-types with superior players, but in terms of the 4 teams mentioned above they are all teams who we would say we are probably quite similar to ability-wise, but we fall foul of being beaten by physicality.

For me, that is why Tyreeq must start tonight.  The last time he started was probably the last time I thought we played well as a team in attack (first half) for any prolonged period of a game.  Since then it’s all been a bit sporadic and off the cuff.

Without character assassinating any of our midfielders, neither Nagy, O’Dowda, Paterson and Brunt (nor Massengo) are physically imposing in any way.  Bakinson gives us an improvement in that area.

We have long been crying out for someone more physical in there.  Henriksen we burned out inside two games, Pack we sold, but he wasn’t mobile.  We probably go back to Marv (and Kalife), and although he was a different beast to Tyreeq we’ve seen what he brings in just 5/6 starts for us.

 

[Wade Wilson]

Bit of a lofty comparison but look at RB Leipzig and how they play, their top scorer this season (with 7 goals!) is their LWB Angeliño. Whenever we play 3-5-2 everything just gets congested through the middle and we can’t create shit, no coincidence that in that Huddersfield game Jay got a goal and assist as soon as we switched to 4-3-3, a formation that gives him cover and options on the wing. 
 

They aren’t getting forward enough as WB’s cause I think we’re just too frail at the back for that and they’re just too worried about leaving us exposed. Maybe it’ll work better with a fully fit Nagy and Bakinson patrolling the midfield, who knows. 

[Davefevs]

41 minutes ago, Wade Wilson said:

Bit of a lofty comparison but look at RB Leipzig and how they play, their top scorer this season (with 7 goals!) is their LWB Angeliño. Whenever we play 3-5-2 everything just gets congested through the middle and we can’t create shit, no coincidence that in that Huddersfield game Jay got a goal and assist as soon as we switched to 4-3-3, a formation that gives him cover and options on the wing. 
 

They aren’t getting forward enough as WB’s cause I think we’re just too frail at the back for that and they’re just too worried about leaving us exposed. Maybe it’ll work better with a fully fit Nagy and Bakinson patrolling the midfield, who knows. 

I’d argue that some of the time they play too high up the pitch and offer worse passing angles / are more easily marked as a result

[Phileas Fogg]

I bet this is quite an interesting topic but I haven't bothered to read the OP due to lack of paragraphing. OP please put a few paragraphs in!

[PHILINFRANCE]

12 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

This appears to be our "Defined" style of play as Holden is apparently continuing the method instigated by LJ and, even going back a decade, GJ.

It's dull, boring, and will lose supporters and matches. The object of professional sport is to entertain and try to win. Our game plan now is nil entertainment and trying not to lose.

Hmmm.

I share some of your sentiment, but question whether ‘to entertain and try to win’ is really the object (desire) of professional sport.

I suspect that, whilst we, as fee-paying supporters, subscribe and attend for just those reasons, professional sport may have less altruistic motives.

 

[mozo]

10 hours ago, mozo said:

There will be spells of the game in which we're on top, and unlike some recent games we need to make the pressure count. If you're dominating games it has to translate into goals.

Please don't let my earlier post be prescient...!