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“A breath of fresh air”


Fordy62

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20 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

When LJ was sacked, Steve Lansdown told us we wanted a breath of fresh air in the club. 

We didn’t get one. We got a man who spent the most of his managerial career under a man who played complete dross.

Said assistant is now serving up that same dross and it should come as no surprise. 

As I said on the match day thread, these performances deserve the sack, however, the results don’t. 

The false position warnings are now being realised. We’re atrocious to watch and the only way we seem to win a game is by nicking it - we’ve dominated a grand total of no games. 

I don’t advocate the sacking of Dean Holden, but my word needs to pick up the pace a little or we’ll be heading for mid table obscurity before we know it. 

I don’t blame Dean Holden, but I do blame Mark Ashton & Steve Lansdown. It doesn’t look like a good appointment to me, not at all.

Things were so promising when we were promised that “breath of fresh air”.

Sorry. 

I like Dean Holden decent bloke but Lansdown has shafted the fans his attitude will be if you don't like it tough cheap option will result in the same outcome timid failure

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Performance and results perhaps, not seen a real streak yet though either way.

As people, they couldn't be more contrasting. Personally i warm to Dean and think he's done well amidst injuries, covid outbreak and congested fixtures.

Pressure has certainly clicked up a number after today's performance but i still have faith.

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He is basically a Sam Allardyce type manager. He can get results but it will never be pretty. I don’t think we have the playing staff to grind out results the way DH seemingly wants to. We are built to be a footballing side but he is playing as many average footballers as he can.

I don’t think DH is in credit. Our performance have been very poor in the main and our remit is top 6. Not getting it under the current style of play. Think maybe some are indifferent because the last 6 months of LJ was so dour so this seems an improvement but it will sour very quickly imo when the inevitable string of losses comes. 
 

The injuries are an argument but I’d also argue he isn’t utilising what he has well enough. How many straight games for Nagy, O’Dowda, Rowe etc? It is too congested to keep flogging the same players. Especially when we are asking them to put in the work they have to get through in a game. 
 

I never got the appointment and am still not a fan. Has he put more points on the board than I expected? Of course but the football is not much better than the last few months of LJ. We are just a bit tougher to beat and that isn’t enough for playoffs. We needed our defensive improvement added to a much better attacking style. So far DH has not been able to find that balance. It is very much keep it tight and take 1-2 of our few chances

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1 minute ago, Gazred said:

Performance and results perhaps, not seen a real streak yet though either way.

As people, they couldn't be more contrasting. Personally i warm to Dean and think he's done well amidst injuries, covid outbreak and congested fixtures.

Pressure has certainly clicked up a number after today's performance but i still have faith.

Havent the rest of the clubs in this div had injuries, covid outbreak and congested fixtures as well?

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5 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Results are more important than performances sounds like an interesting debate actually (my god I sound like SOD). 

At least good performances fill you with hope. But when you’re overachieving in terms of results and the performances are shit, you know you’re going to come crashing back down to earth sooner rather than later. 

Like I said, I don’t blame Holden, not at all. But was he the best candidate? Was he bollocks. 

I am not arguing with your last point at all because I never thought so.

But I am prepared to accept that with 8 of the first team squad unavailable & a frenetic fixture list, in the medium term the results are all that matter.

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2 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

Havent the rest of the clubs in this div had injuries, covid outbreak and congested fixtures as well?

In fairness to Holden, I’m pretty sure almost no one has the injury list we do. 

We still have more than enough to at least match Rotherham though!

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3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

We could have got someone from outside of the club who ends up being far more like LJ than Holden has been.

I think people are not understanding the context of Lansdown's breath of fresh air comment. He just meant someone different to LJ and it was down to Ashton and Jon to decide on that. Holden is his own man with his own ideas, with 2 new guys alongside him. It is a breath of fresh air, whether people want them in or not.

So far Holden has done things quite differently, and overall has done a good job. Today was shocking, but only about the 3rd bad performance all season. And even Norwich game we had loads of chances, and Boro game should have had clear pen at the end and they didnt exactly create loads so was a tight game but poor performance.

Today was the only truly awful performance from start to finish. And obviously not good enough, but Holden's job now is to come back from that and make sure teams like Rotherham can't bully us so easily in the future.

Also I don't think it is just down to us being light weight, I think there were probably tactical things Rotherham did that made them look like they constantly had more players on the pitch. Holden did not make the right changes to effect the game with the system and subs. He didnt do his job well enough today for sure.

So do you subscribe to the view that Holden had nothing to do with the increasingly dire football under LJ despite LJ being the man who brought him in?

In which case was he just putting out the cones? Not much of a qualification to get the head coach job in that case.

I'm not sure either that largely playing equally dire football with a different formation amounts to a breath of fresh air, especially when we were told we would be aggressive and play on the front foot. Which turns out not to be the case.

My expectation was, and is, a mid table finish but I also thought he would at least deliver on his promise of more attacking football. There is no sign of that so I feel justified in criticising.

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15 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

Korey was a great player for City. I stated at the time, but he should never have been sold without a proven replacement.

That was Joe Williams, but him & Walsh so far have Lee Matthews like availability records..

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3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I am not arguing with your last point at all because I never thought so.

But I am prepared to accept that with 8 of the first team squad unavailable & a frenetic fixture list, in the medium term the results are all that matter.

Yeh, a fair point Graham and we are hanging in there, but I feel we should be doing better with what we currently have available. 

But what i’m currently seeing with what we’ve got available doesn’t fill me with confidence that we’d blow anyone away even when we have a fully fit squad. 

Time will tell I suppose. 

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Just now, Fordy62 said:

Yeh, a fair point Graham and we are hanging in there, but I feel we should be doing better with what we currently have available. 

But what in currently seeing with what we’ve got available doesn’t fill me with confidence that we’d blow anyone away even when we have a fully fit squad. 

Time will tell I suppose. 

No argument with that in respect of today, for those who think so re Brum & the like we are no bigger or better.

Problem is after a game it looks like hindsight but I was amazed that having played a day later & having to travel as well, we made no changes at all to the starting lineup.

Famara had to start, Mariappa too & as unpopular as he is, Bakinson’s performance today showed that he should never had started, so Brunt should have.

We appeared amazed that they are a tall, thump the ball into our box at the first opportunity team, poor.

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2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Yeh, a fair point Graham and we are hanging in there, but I feel we should be doing better with what we currently have available. 

But what i’m currently seeing with what we’ve got available doesn’t fill me with confidence that we’d blow anyone away even when we have a fully fit squad. 

Time will tell I suppose. 

It will and DH said we had to hang in there until players come back in January. Then it was clarified as mid to late January. But then some won't be until February apparently. So he and we may be clutching at straws.

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2 minutes ago, markcarter said:

In his post match interview today Honest and Open Holden lied twice.  Firstly he said ‘the lads have always shown this season that they can respond immediately to a setback’.  Incorrect.  After 4 wins we went on a 5 match winless run.  Secondly he said ‘that’s the first time this season when we haven’t met our standards’.  Incorrect, given he himself said after the Birmingham debacle ‘That’s the second time this season, after Norwich, when we haven’t met our standards’.  So even his own previous assessment would make that the third time, by his own prior admission.  Two lies in one interview shows he is under pressure and the opposite of Honest and Open Holden.

Ooooh. I like a good provable lie. Well evidenced. Have yourself a Pat on the back!

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We have what nine 9 first teamers injured many for the season. I don’t make excuses and neither does Holden but it’s an issue. 
 

I tweeted to Twentyman today one word, Abject! Not sure if he read it out?! 
 

We are terrible at dead balls, the fact we keep conceding from them makes it obvious. Would Baker and/or mawson  make a difference of course.  
 

any fool can see us coming. We are physically weak and in one or two areas mentally, but we have what we have, Holden and two former national team managers have to manage it. 
 

Hopefully Bentley can keep us in it a bit longer. 
 

 

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26 minutes ago, chinapig said:

But we let him, and Morrell, go to bring in Brunt, who is so much better.

Btw I thought Korey was outstanding for Swansea today.

Morell doesn’t get in the Luton team and has been left out the squad completely in some games so can’t see how he is going to improve us correct decision to let him go 

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3 minutes ago, markcarter said:

In his post match interview today Honest and Open Holden lied twice.  Firstly he said ‘the lads have always shown this season that they can respond immediately to a setback’.  Incorrect.  After 4 wins we went on a 5 match winless run.  Secondly he said ‘that’s the first time this season when we haven’t met our standards’.  Incorrect, given he himself said after the Birmingham debacle ‘That’s the second time this season, after Norwich, when we haven’t met our standards’.  So even his own previous assessment would make that the third time, by his own prior admission.  Two lies in one interview shows he is under pressure and the opposite of Honest and Open Holden.

Managers/coaches lie all the time, often to themselves. Just don't claim to be a blunt, honest northerner if you aren't going to live up to it.

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37 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

If Williams and Walsh were his creative engine then he’s never had a chance.

Cant help thinking Mawson was needed today to put some steel into the team and get them biting back.

we need to get few core players fit and on the pitch.

This is my view on it

he hasn’t had his strongest 11 to pick

we’re down to bare bones

Were playing twice a week constantly with the same players available

He can’t be judged fairly until he has a fully fit squad to work with. He went and got Mawson which hugely improved our defence, he was class. Martin was impressive when he came in but clearly can’t play to that level with such regular games.

Theres things some of us would do differently but ultimately none of us know behind the scenes and what happens in training etc 

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50 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

When LJ was sacked, Steve Lansdown told us we wanted a breath of fresh air in the club. 

We didn’t get one. We got a man who spent the most of his managerial career under a man who played complete dross.

Said assistant is now serving up that same dross and it should come as no surprise. 

As I said on the match day thread, these performances deserve the sack, however, the results don’t. 

The false position warnings are now being realised. We’re atrocious to watch and the only way we seem to win a game is by nicking it - we’ve dominated a grand total of no games. 

I don’t advocate the sacking of Dean Holden, but my word needs to pick up the pace a little or we’ll be heading for mid table obscurity before we know it. 

I don’t blame Dean Holden, but I do blame Mark Ashton & Steve Lansdown. It doesn’t look like a good appointment to me, not at all.

Things were so promising when we were promised that “breath of fresh air”.

Sorry. 

The problem you've got Fordy is that if we beat an out of sorts Millwall next up we're back in touch with the top 3.

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Agree with Fordy and would add that Holden is effectively learning on the job in the head coach / managing role which, especially in such a competitive league, is no easy thing to do.

He has said the right thing about wanting 90 goals and playing attacking football etc but ultimately when you’re the man whose reputation / job is at stake as number 1 you may resort to defensive and duller football to play it ‘safe’ and go against your own principles. 

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In some ways, Holden has been a breath of fresh air after LJ. No more throwing players under the bus, no more shirking responsibility, no more talking utter gibberish to make himself sound cleverer than he is. I like that about Holden. 

But I’m in total agreement with @Fordy62, and have been saying much the same for a while now. Yes, we’ve got injuries but so have Norwich, for example. The performances have largely been utter garbage so far this season and it’s an anomaly we’re in the position we’re in. 

The buck stops with SL. 

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1 minute ago, BigTone said:

You win some, you lose some. That's football. Let's just move on to Millwall and try and bounce back.

Its not the results that is the concern Tone, its the manner that we are losing games. There hasn't been a game this season where we have dominated the full 90 minutes and for a team that is pushing for play offs, that is a major concern.

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2 minutes ago, Globe Trotter said:

Agree with Fordy and would add that Holden is effectively learning on the job in the head coach / managing role which, especially in such a competitive league, is no easy thing to do.

He has said the right thing about wanting 90 goals and playing attacking football etc but ultimately when you’re the man whose reputation / job is at stake as number 1 you may resort to defensive and duller football to play it ‘safe’ and go against your own principles. 

Then don't make promises just to ingratiate yourself with the fans unless you are sure you can deliver.

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