“A breath of fresh air”

[Andy082005]

58 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

When LJ was sacked, Steve Lansdown told us we wanted a breath of fresh air in the club. 

We didn’t get one. We got a man who spent the most of his managerial career under a man who played complete dross.

Said assistant is now serving up that same dross and it should come as no surprise. 

As I said on the match day thread, these performances deserve the sack, however, the results don’t. 

The false position warnings are now being realised. We’re atrocious to watch and the only way we seem to win a game is by nicking it - we’ve dominated a grand total of no games. 

I don’t advocate the sacking of Dean Holden, but my word needs to pick up the pace a little or we’ll be heading for mid table obscurity before we know it. 

I don’t blame Dean Holden, but I do blame Mark Ashton & Steve Lansdown. It doesn’t look like a good appointment to me, not at all.

Things were so promising when we were promised that “breath of fresh air”.

Sorry. 

Absolutely on the money. Every last word 

[Hazelboy]

27 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

So far Holden has done things quite differently, and overall has done a good job. Today was shocking, but only about the 3rd bad performance all season. And even Norwich game we had loads of chances, and Boro game should have had clear pen at the end and they didnt exactly create loads so was a tight game but poor performance.

 

 

Not even close 

Coventry - dire football, undeserved win

Forest - dire football, undeserved win

Barnsley - dire football

Boro - dire football, deserved loss

Norwich - dire football, deserved loss

Huddersfield - dire football, undeserved win

Cardiff - dire football, if Moore wasn’t their striker it would have been a loss

Derby - dire football, undeserved win

Reading - dire football, deserved loss

Birmingham - dire football, deserved loss

Rotherham - dire football, deserved loss 

Add in QPR, sheff wed & Swansea where at least for 45 minutes the performance was pretty bad! 

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, Ecko said:

Its not the results that is the concern Tone, its the manner that we are losing games. There hasn't been a game this season where we have dominated the full 90 minutes and for a team that is pushing for play offs, that is a major concern.

All we can do is wait and see what happens. Maybe there are plans to bring in some fresh blood in January and get rid of some of the old. Who knows. Time will tell.  In the meantime we are in the mix for the playoffs which is good to see.

[Globe Trotter]

2 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Then don't make promises just to ingratiate yourself with the fans unless you are sure you can deliver.

I totally agree with you, without any management experience though it’s hard for him to be sure that he can deliver. Which is why he shouldn’t have been given the job in the first place. 

[chinapig]

Just now, Globe Trotter said:

I totally agree with you, without any management experience though it’s hard for him to be sure that he can deliver. Which is why he shouldn’t have been given the job in the first place. 

But again, if you are not sure don't say it. Otherwise it can make you look like a liar. I don't think he is but I do think at the start he was too focused on projecting an image of himself. Not unreasonable to expect him to live up to his own PR then.

[Bodder]

We have been sold up the river by MA with the Breath of Fresh air rubbish. We can't keep find excuses like complaining about the lack of depth in the squad and being fatigued, on paper we have one of the largest squads in the league. Our transfer business has been poor, Naki Wells very clearly doesn't want to be here and for Burnley to get Brownhill deal he was pulled from a QPR team where he was playing well and in a good partnership which he hasn't been able to form since his arrival plus he is being used wide on a attacking 3 which doesn't suit his fox in the box style. If Alfie Mawson is fully fit and not injury prone would be turning out for Fulham every week and not with us on loan, big gamble that hasn't paid off. Letting Kasey Palmer go out on loan and allowing Joe Morrell to leave on a permanent is just ridiculous. There are much weaker midfielders in the squad we should have moved on either on loan or permanent,HNM and CoD. 

Nathan Baker on his day can look different class however these days are very few and far between. His injury record alone should say move him on. 

We are in a mid LJ hangover and the pressure will build if LJ starts well at Sunderland and we are still putting out displays like today. 

[Robin Wood]

27 minutes ago, chinapig said:

So do you subscribe to the view that Holden had nothing to do with the increasingly dire football under LJ despite LJ being the man who brought him in?

In which case was he just putting out the cones? Not much of a qualification to get the head coach job in that case.

I'm not sure either that largely playing equally dire football with a different formation amounts to a breath of fresh air, especially when we were told we would be aggressive and play on the front foot. Which turns out not to be the case.

My expectation was, and is, a mid table finish but I also thought he would at least deliver on his promise of more attacking football. There is no sign of that so I feel justified in criticising.

We don't play attacking football we are no different to Millwall, Preston or Rotherham the only difference is our budget is probably double to those teams, Chris Martin was great when he started now he's starved of decent service we spend massive money on one of the best strikers in the division and play him out wide no wonder the football is dire roll on Williams and Walsh everyone hopes but they are not guaranteed to be a success 

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Leveller said:

Meanwhile in Nottingham, the "Hughton out" chat has started.

Here he'd  have taken over a club and squad ready for take off.

At Forest he's  walked into the opposite. 

[chinapig]

Just now, JonDolman said:

I'd say he had very little to do with LJs football, as Holden has done things very differently. If Holden was key part of what we were seeing then that would have carried on this season.

I've always felt that way. Like when a manager does poorly I'm not looking at the assistants like some do, or even goalkeeper coaches like people who have had a problem with Gilmartin in the past.

The manager is the one who makes the decisions. The assistants can help of course but generally they just do what the manager wants.

So he was pretty much getting money for old rope? Must tell my boss I share no responsibility for our team's performance as I'm only his deputy! I can then sit back and let him do all the work.

LJ brought him in, they were mates and presumably did not have diametrically opposed philosophies or they could hardly have worked together.

But again I struggle to see how playing equally dire football with a different formation amounts to a breath of fresh air.

[petehinton]

We’re just outside the plays off with an entire back line and midfield out injured. If we are playing the same shit when we have a back 3 of Kalas Vyner Mawson and midfield with Paterson and Weimann in then I’d agree. Until then I think just need to patch up all over the shop and pick up points wherever we can. 
 

Worth mentioning that everyone’s favourite Chris Hughton has just led Forest to ANOTHER defeat. I don’t see who we’d have got in who would be doing much/any better tbh. 

[Banjo Red]

False position+dire football=LJ 2.0

No breath of fresh air I feel sorry for the guy as I like how he is very passionate about the club but the football is not exciting to watch.

[petehinton]

46 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Here he'd  have taken over a club and squad ready for take off.

At Forest he's  walked into the opposite. 

No chance. Their squad is one of the best in the league. And they thrown more money his way to bring in Knockaert

[intercity]

1 hour ago, markcarter said:

In his post match interview today Honest and Open Holden lied twice.  Firstly he said ‘the lads have always shown this season that they can respond immediately to a setback’.  Incorrect.  After 4 wins we went on a 5 match winless run.  Secondly he said ‘that’s the first time this season when we haven’t met our standards’.  Incorrect, given he himself said after the Birmingham debacle ‘That’s the second time this season, after Norwich, when we haven’t met our standards’.  So even his own previous assessment would make that the third time, by his own prior admission.  Two lies in one interview shows he is under pressure and the opposite of Honest and Open Holden.

Perhaps the standard is shifting Mark... we do seem to be getting progressively worse in terms of performance.

Im interested to see what happens when the injured come back into the fold. Not necessarily will that prompt an improvement in our team performances. We may have seen some of this before.

[Sheltons Army]

47 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Here he'd  have taken over a club and squad ready for take off.

At Forest he's  walked into the opposite. 

Really ?

Thats a big statement and one I disagree with

Lots of ‘okish’ players who performing at their best can look decent 

Lots of samey samey standard , and accompanying shortcomings , across the squad

 

Pick your best Championship X1

Then the next 

Then the next

 

When are City players , apart from Bentley (IMHO) starting to feature 

[Fordy62]

6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Really ?

Thats a big statement and one I disagree with

Lots of ‘okish’ players who performing at their best can look decent 

Lots of samey samey standard , and accompanying shortcomings , across the squad

 

Pick your best Championship X1

Then the next 

Then the next

 

When are City players , apart from Bentley (IMHO) starting to feature 

Are we talking about on current form? If it isn’t then Kalas and Wells should be near the top. 

[BetterRedthanBlue]

We've been dross for a couple of weeks now only winning or getting points because of Bentley Heroics or nicking a win. 

Whilst I wasn't (and still haven't been) convinced by Holden we have been unlucky with Injuries this season so I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt until we have a bigger squad to choose from (even if the performances have been getting worse). 

Whilst I enjoy the number of Academy Graduates that are on the bench they aren't a Jay Dasilva, a Nathan Baker, A Steven Sessegnon or an Andreas Weimann and I don't truly think we upgraded in the summer. 

[marcofisher]

27 minutes ago, harvey54 said:

Just waiting for the Eddie Howe thread to start. 

It's beginning to feel a lot like Johnson!! 

I would have Eddie Howe here in a flash with our set-up.

Great coach, shocking with transfers however.

[Redland]

A team with genuine Premier League aspirations does not lose 2 - 0 at Rotherham.  End of. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

29 minutes ago, petehinton said:

No chance. Their squad is one of the best in the league. And they thrown more money his way to bring in Knockaert

Their owner is a nutter who runs them like a nutter. We're far more stable. I think this is why Foredt under achieve - because if you're  a mess off the pitch (and also have delusions of grandeur) it affects how the team performs. Imo being stable off the pitch gives City the best chance of take off. Of course, you also have to  if appoint the right manager. Which we haven't.  

 

25 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Really ?

Thats a big statement and one I disagree with

Lots of ‘okish’ players who performing at their best can look decent 

Lots of samey samey standard , and accompanying shortcomings , across the squad

 

Pick your best Championship X1

Then the next 

Then the next

 

When are City players , apart from Bentley (IMHO) starting to feature 

A team with Bentley Kalas Baker Dasilva Martin Wells Weimann and Williams should be capable of finishing top 6. Then you're 3 games from take off.

Who knows, we might yet do it. (Personally I doubt it but then I wouldn't have appointed Holden)

[Sheltons Army]

10 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Their owner is a nutter who runs them like a nutter. We're far more stable. I think this is why Foredt under achieve - because if you're  a mess off the pitch (and also have delusions of grandeur) it affects how the team performs. Imo being stable off the pitch gives City the best chance of take off. Of course, you also have to  if appoint the right manager. Which we haven't.  

 

A team with Bentley Kalas Baker Dasilva Martin Wells Weimann and Williams should be capable of finishing top 6. Then you're 3 games from take off.

Who knows, we might yet do it. (Personally I doubt it but then I wouldn't have appointed Holden)

Hughton wouldn’t have had Baker , Weimann , Williams , or much of DaSilva

 

(I still think our ‘qualities’ , individuals and squad are overhyped on here )

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Hughton wouldn’t have had Baker , Weimann , Williams , or much of DaSilva

 

(I still think our ‘qualities’ , individuals and squad are overhyped on here )

How on earth do you know Houghton wouldn't  have had those players?

Are you Nostradamus? 

[BigTone]

8 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Hughton wouldn’t have had Baker , Weimann , Williams , or much of DaSilva

 

(I still think our ‘qualities’ , individuals and squad are overhyped on here )

None of us know who Hughton would or would not have had.

Now as for @Rudolf Hucker

[richyy66]

If you look at the current squad - we are weaker than last year at the moment.

Vyner, Taylor Moore, Semenyo, Bakinson never really played Championship football before.

Our bench is full of kids, hardly any going to make an impact - apart from Fam.

Yes we have injuries , as do many other clubs in the division. Yes we are playing 2 games a week but so does every other team.

The appointment of Holden at the time raised eyebrows and understandably so. I think we have rode our luck in some games but somehow have managed to pick up a fair few wins. What gets me is that our football seems to be going downhill rapidly. It is dull to watch and frustrating to see players who get paid more than we could imagine put no aggression or energy in their performances. Breath of fresh air - i think not. In my opinion we are weaker than last season and will continue to struggle with the current crock of shite that is being dished up.

Bentley and Kalas aside what other Championship Team would want any of our players at this time.

 

 

[Kodjias Wrist]

30 minutes ago, Redland said:

A team with genuine Premier League aspirations does not lose 2 - 0 at Rotherham.  End of. 

Think that's harsh on Rotherham who deserved the win today and did what they did well. Trouble is I don't know what we do I generally don't maybe @Davefevs can enlighten us. 

I feel if this was a one off bad performance we would be showing more acceptance, but the fact its been dross all season is the reason everyone has flipped. This has just been the cherry on the top.

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

We’re just outside the plays off with an entire back line and midfield out injured. If we are playing the same shit when we have a back 3 of Kalas Vyner Mawson and midfield with Paterson and Weimann in then I’d agree. Until then I think just need to patch up all over the shop and pick up points wherever we can. 
 

Worth mentioning that everyone’s favourite Chris Hughton has just led Forest to ANOTHER defeat. I don’t see who we’d have got in who would be doing much/any better tbh. 

Nottingham Forest and Bristol City are two very different football clubs at present.. You cannot compare what Hughton has done there and what he could of done here IMO. 

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

When LJ was sacked, Steve Lansdown told us we wanted a breath of fresh air in the club. 

We didn’t get one. We got a man who spent the most of his managerial career under a man who played complete dross.

Said assistant is now serving up that same dross and it should come as no surprise. 

As I said on the match day thread, these performances deserve the sack, however, the results don’t. 

The false position warnings are now being realised. We’re atrocious to watch and the only way we seem to win a game is by nicking it - we’ve dominated a grand total of no games. 

I don’t advocate the sacking of Dean Holden, but my word needs to pick up the pace a little or we’ll be heading for mid table obscurity before we know it. 

I don’t blame Dean Holden, but I do blame Mark Ashton & Steve Lansdown. It doesn’t look like a good appointment to me, not at all.

Things were so promising when we were promised that “breath of fresh air”.

Sorry. 

So the owner bullshitted everyone? Not the first time an owner of a football club has talked shite in the media and won’t be the last. Who is to blame for that? Not Dean Holden who will take the pelters on here for it that’s for sure.

Holden is doing the best he can with what he’s got. We’ve won half our games and lost a third, hardly a disastrous start in results terms, with a squad that was limited to start with before you even mention key players being long term sick. Performances? That’s another matter.

You are correct in that we haven’t really changed much and as a result what we are seeing is the same as it’s been for 2-3 years. Why would we expect anything different?

I wonder whether his appointment was a strategy to contain costs in the current climate and whether you will see a bigger name manager through the door in a year or two and given money to spend.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

15 minutes ago, bris red said:

Nottingham Forest and Bristol City are two very different football clubs at present.. You cannot compare what Hughton has done there and what he could of done here IMO. 

What, you think it would have been easier for him to do better with us than Forest?  Really?

[NorfolkInChance]

Nice guy out of his depth - same old

[petehinton]

17 minutes ago, bris red said:

Nottingham Forest and Bristol City are two very different football clubs at present.. You cannot compare what Hughton has done there and what he could of done here IMO. 

They finished above us last season and had the best transfer window in the division. They started off on a much stronger foot than we did. You absolutely can compare for me. 
 

He came in in October and has more losses since then than we have over the entire season....

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

23 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Think that's harsh on Rotherham who deserved the win today and did what they did well. Trouble is I don't know what we do I generally don't maybe @Davefevs can enlighten us. 

I feel if this was a one off bad performance we would be showing more acceptance, but the fact its been dross all season is the reason everyone has flipped. This has just been the cherry on the top.

Dross all season?  Not for for me, by a long shot.  The first month was (dare I say it) ‘a breath of fresh air’, but the overwhelming schedule combined with our dreadful injury situation has caught up with us, and it’s not surprising our performances are deteriorating.  I thought we were awful today, but I think I can understand why, and I hope that we can hang on in there until January when, hopefully, our squad will be transformed by the return of several very good players.

Today was the first match of the season (and like most of you, for a change I’ve been able to see every match) when I felt let down by the performance, but you only have to look at the quality of the bench to understand the challenge we’re up against.  Losing Paterson and Dasilva, on top of all the other injuries, has been a killer.