A sustained performance over 90 minutes !

[headhunter]

This is a recording of last night's FBC Podcast: https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/a-90-minute-performance-rotherham-a-reviewed/

City have often been accused this season of sustaining a level of performance over 90 minutes. They managed it at Rotherham yesterday, only problem was it was 90 minutes of possibly the worst football they have managed to produce through a whole game in  4 1/2 seasons of Championship football!

Ian, DaveFevs, Mark & Headhunter are not happy as they discuss what went wrong in a game where you couldn't draw one single positive from.

We also give our points prediction for the halfway stage of the season which is 5 games from here.

FWIW, and as I said in the POD, I don't buy either the week bench or we were tired as an excuse for yesterday's performance.

If we were only allowed a 6 man bench, not 9, it would have consisted of O'Leary, Diedhiou, Mariappa, Moore, Brunt & Massengo most of whom for varying reasons could command a place on the bench in ANY Championship side. As for tiredness, Norwich, Boro ,Barnsley, Brentford & Reading all played Wednesday too with the latter two scoring crucial goals in the last 10 minutes of their fixtures.

We failed miserably against a side with 1 point from their previous 6 games who, on the day, were up for it more than us by a long way. Easy to blame Holden for what was an undeniable *hit show but I don't see his assistants offering much by way of experience which is what they were brought in for.

 

 

[Sleepy1968]

I couldn't face listening live last night, so I listened this morning. Fair play to you all for bothering, which was more than can be said for the city team yesterday. Here's some tips for the coaching team from someone who knows as much about the game as Harry Rednapp's dog:

1. Play players in their best positions where you can (that also means playing the correct formation);

2. Rotate the squad (no idea how our in game performance levels can be so much worse than oppositions teams);

3. Retain possession (or at least work on finding your man if you're going to be launching the thing down the field like a hot potato);

The next couple of games are going to be interesting for a team with no real fight.

[Davefevs]

It was quite a grown up debate last night.

[Tipps69]

3 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I couldn't face listening live last night, so I listened this morning. Fair play to you all for bothering, which was more than can be said for the city team yesterday. Here's some tips for the coaching team from someone who knows as much about the game as Harry Rednapp's dog:

1. Play players in their best positions where you can (that also means playing the correct formation);

2. Rotate the squad (no idea how our in game performance levels can be so much worse than oppositions teams);

3. Retain possession (or at least work on finding your man if you're going to be launching the thing down the field like a hot potato);

The next couple of games are going to be interesting for a team with no real fight.

Just to pick up on point #2, how do you consider doing that under the current circumstances?

Yesterday we were missing through injury Paterson, Dasilva, Baker, Mawson, Sessegnon, Walsh, Williams & Weimann, how much rotation & resting is currently possible with the options available?

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I couldn't face listening live last night, so I listened this morning. Fair play to you all for bothering, which was more than can be said for the city team yesterday. Here's some tips for the coaching team from someone who knows as much about the game as Harry Rednapp's dog:

1. Play players in their best positions where you can (that also means playing the correct formation);

2. Rotate the squad (no idea how our in game performance levels can be so much worse than oppositions teams);

3. Retain possession (or at least work on finding your man if you're going to be launching the thing down the field like a hot potato);

The next couple of games are going to be interesting for a team with no real fight.

I think it’s harsh to say the team has no fight. If you believe that performances have been poor then clearly the fight has been there to get results to compensate. Yesterday we did lack fight but over 18 games? Not for me.

[headhunter]

25 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Just to pick up on point #2, how do you consider doing that under the current circumstances?

Yesterday we were missing through injury Paterson, Dasilva, Baker, Mawson, Sessegnon, Walsh, Williams & Weimann, how much rotation & resting is currently possible with the options available?

Could have played this to give some [not all] a rest:

Bentley / Moore, Mariappa, Towler, Rowe / Nagy, Massengo, Wells, Bakinson / Bell, Diedhiou

Try telling me that this line up wouldn't have performed any worse! Wells is playing in that wide role we seem to be using him in.

 

[Tipps69]

39 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Could have played this to give some [not all] a rest:

Bentley / Moore, Mariappa, Towler, Rowe / Nagy, Massengo, Wells, Bakinson / Bell, Diedhiou

Try telling me that this line up wouldn't have performed any worse! Wells is playing in that wide role we seem to be using him in.

 

So you would of dropped our current two first choice centre halves for someone that has played 2 games so far this season (as a right back) & an 18 year-old who hasn’t played 1 minute of senior football against a team that were always going to be lumping everything in to our box??? You would of seriously picked this game to do that? And while Wells is playing wide in your midfield 4, who’s playing whichever side Wells isn’t out of the 3 central midfielders you’ve picked? As I don’t see Massengo, Nagy or Bakinson ever being able to play wide!

And yet people criticised LJ for playing square pegs in round holes & have done with DH!!

Can you imagine the blow up on here if he had done that? Or picked that team? And if you can’t see that that team would do worse than the one picked yesterday, I’d suggest you maybe imagining things!

[headhunter]

15 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

So you would of dropped our current two first choice centre halves for someone that has played 2 games so far this season (as a right back) & an 18 year-old who hasn’t played 1 minute of senior football against a team that were always going to be lumping everything in to our box??? You would of seriously picked this game to do that? And while Wells is playing wide in your midfield 4, who’s playing whichever side Wells isn’t out of the 3 central midfielders you’ve picked? As I don’t see Massengo, Nagy or Bakinson ever being able to play wide!

And yet people criticised LJ for playing square pegs in round holes & have done with DH!!

Can you imagine the blow up on here if he had done that? Or picked that team? And if you can’t see that that team would do worse than the one picked yesterday, I’d suggest you maybe imagining things!

I was pandering to those who talk about rotation being applied but maybe I went a bit too far!

OK, put Kalas in for Towler then that shores up the defence . Mariappa has played almost 400 games at Championship level or above and is a versatile defender is he not. Taylor Moore has played at full back before and is always more comfortable playing on the right rather than left; so is Kalas for that matter.

You criticize the midfield combo by saying there is no one to play on the other side to Wells. Well as I see it we're being overrun in midfield in most games for long periods so why not have the extra man there allowing any one of the midfielders to break at the right time with Brunt as the anchor. How many effective crosses did Semenyo and O'Dowda muster yesterday? I am trying to think of any that came to anything. 

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

Just to pick up on point #2, how do you consider doing that under the current circumstances?

Yesterday we were missing through injury Paterson, Dasilva, Baker, Mawson, Sessegnon, Walsh, Williams & Weimann, how much rotation & resting is currently possible with the options available?

Two or three of the subs could have started. Not ideal by any means but if we aren't trying to utilise the squad (such as it is) when matches are so close together then we never will.

[Tipps69]

21 minutes ago, headhunter said:

I was pandering to those who talk about rotation being applied but maybe I went a bit too far!

OK, put Kalas in for Towler then that shores up the defence . Mariappa has played almost 400 games at Championship level or above and is a versatile defender is he not. Taylor Moore has played at full back before and is always more comfortable playing on the right rather than left; so is Kalas for that matter.

You criticize the midfield combo by saying there is no one to play on the other side to Wells. Well as I see it we're being overrun in midfield in most games for long periods so why not have the extra man there allowing any one of the midfielders to break at the right time with Brunt as the anchor. How many effective crosses did Semenyo and O'Dowda muster yesterday? I am trying to think of any that came to anything. 

That being the case & seeing as Kalas has been playing left while Vyner played right, why not have Kalas left centre half & Moore right (just a direct replacement for Vyner? Mari apps might well have so many appearances throughout his career but not for the last 3 months (2 at right back) & would undoubtedly be lacking match fitness as well as having no real pre season.

Surely playing 3-5-2 would mean not getting over run in midfield? (I’ll let you be the judge on how that’s gone).

For me, playing 3 up front has been the issue, while in essence it looks attacking & like we should have lots of attempts on goal, we simply haven’t so playing 3 up front is pointless. But what DH has tended to do when allowing Diedhiou to start is to leave him isolated & then it’s all Diedhiou’s fault & he’s classed as not good enough by many on here but if he had the support of two other forwards (like Wells, Martin & Semenyo have), he probably wouldn’t look so isolated & inept. We simply haven’t given that front 3 the service so why persevere with 3 players that are unlikely to get the ball often enough? 1 or 2 of those players could be utilised further back (by swapping them out for players who can play the other positions).

Now I'm all for rotation, I think we’re in desperate need of it but I don’t think under any circumstances should we be swapping out 7 or 8 players for a game. 2 or 3 maximum because other wise you lose that familiarity & players will look like they have less of an idea as to what each other is doing. Part of this problem could be DH’s own doing if you are going to take him by his word of ‘the shirt is there for the players to win/lose & once they win it, they’ll keep it’. So maybe he is worried about resting players without significant reason?

[headhunter]

Anyone who listens to the FBC Podcast will know that I am not a fan of Callum O'Dowda. He has been getting some plaudits of late but on Saturday was back to his infuriating worst!!!

One of our listeners sent me an email with this character assassination that I could not have put better myself: 

no heart for a battle, you could see him thinking I’m not up for this

- let players run off of him, getting goal side, because he didn’t fancy it

- tried to hide between the midfield 2 and front 3

- makes no passing angles

- hides behind the opposition so he can’t receive a pass

- can’t get his head up, so gets caught in possession, or delays the pass to a teammate

- fouls needlessly because he’s weak

- can’t cross 

Despite him playing better himself (than under LJ - a low bar), I personally think there’s a strong correlation that since he’s come back into the team, our cohesiveness has gone down the toilet.  He’s had two good 45 minutes....and then rests on his laurels. 

People blaming Paterson’s quiet games, might want to think if it’s because he’s playing alongside a poor replacement for Weimann. 

I think he has a detrimental impact on the team. 

Callum O’Dowda is the epitome of a cushy professional footballer.  He’s the epitome of every teammate I hated playing alongside when I played. 

He’d be nowhere near my starting eleven, even with injuries.  He needs to be given a good shake....and then sold!!

[megansdad]

think the formation for the match did not help - 3-5 2 should have allowed us to have more control and I hope we go back to that set up for the visit of Millwall.

[daored]

22 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Anyone who listens to the FBC Podcast will know that I am not a fan of Callum O'Dowda. He has been getting some plaudits of late but on Saturday was back to his infuriating worst!!!

One of our listeners sent me an email with this character assassination that I could not have put better myself: 

no heart for a battle, you could see him thinking I’m not up for this

- let players run off of him, getting goal side, because he didn’t fancy it

- tried to hide between the midfield 2 and front 3

- makes no passing angles

- hides behind the opposition so he can’t receive a pass

- can’t get his head up, so gets caught in possession, or delays the pass to a teammate

- fouls needlessly because he’s weak

- can’t cross 

Despite him playing better himself (than under LJ - a low bar), I personally think there’s a strong correlation that since he’s come back into the team, our cohesiveness has gone down the toilet.  He’s had two good 45 minutes....and then rests on his laurels. 

People blaming Paterson’s quiet games, might want to think if it’s because he’s playing alongside a poor replacement for Weimann. 

I think he has a detrimental impact on the team. 

Callum O’Dowda is the epitome of a cushy professional footballer.  He’s the epitome of every teammate I hated playing alongside when I played. 

He’d be nowhere near my starting eleven, even with injuries.  He needs to be given a good shake....and then sold!!

He was at fault for the first goal on Saturday , wasn’t prepared to challenge and potentially hurt himself (point one in you make in your post). Similar to the goal at Barnsley , when he gave away pen he jumped not for the ball but into the man , again because he didn’t want the physical challenge. 
 

It’s a shame we’ve sold all our wingers

[maxjak]

2 hours ago, headhunter said:

Anyone who listens to the FBC Podcast will know that I am not a fan of Callum O'Dowda. He has been getting some plaudits of late but on Saturday was back to his infuriating worst!!!

One of our listeners sent me an email with this character assassination that I could not have put better myself: 

no heart for a battle, you could see him thinking I’m not up for this

- let players run off of him, getting goal side, because he didn’t fancy it

- tried to hide between the midfield 2 and front 3

- makes no passing angles

- hides behind the opposition so he can’t receive a pass

- can’t get his head up, so gets caught in possession, or delays the pass to a teammate

- fouls needlessly because he’s weak

- can’t cross 

Despite him playing better himself (than under LJ - a low bar), I personally think there’s a strong correlation that since he’s come back into the team, our cohesiveness has gone down the toilet.  He’s had two good 45 minutes....and then rests on his laurels. 

People blaming Paterson’s quiet games, might want to think if it’s because he’s playing alongside a poor replacement for Weimann. 

I think he has a detrimental impact on the team. 

Callum O’Dowda is the epitome of a cushy professional footballer.  He’s the epitome of every teammate I hated playing alongside when I played. 

He’d be nowhere near my starting eleven, even with injuries.  He needs to be given a good shake....and then sold!!

Aside from all his other faults,  this from an international footballer (somehow ?)  He NEVER EVER gets his head up..........it's infuriating and costly.  Have his coaches ever addressed this I wonder?

[maxjak]

2 hours ago, daored said:

He was at fault for the first goal on Saturday , wasn’t prepared to challenge and potentially hurt himself (point one in you make in your post). Similar to the goal at Barnsley , when he gave away pen he jumped not for the ball but into the man , again because he didn’t want the physical challenge. 
 

It’s a shame we’ve sold all our wingers

Who the  Pheck allocated O'Dither to mark a 6 foot 4 inch forward ?    Bad planning and organisation were rife on Saturday.......2 separate newspaper reports described our performance as "Laughable"., And that's'  being kind?   Holden's new mantra........"We need a response"

[headhunter]

Based upon Saturday's performance and the need to rotate should / will Callum be in the starting line tonight against a robust win less in 10 [?] Millwall ?

How about giving Massengo a run out from the start with a without defensive responsibilities portfolio that seems to be enjoyed by our Irish wing wizard - maybe we might see a glimpse of the exciting youngster of the first few games of 19/20

[Robbored]

22 hours ago, headhunter said:

Anyone who listens to the FBC Podcast will know that I am not a fan of Callum O'Dowda. He has been getting some plaudits of late but on Saturday was back to his infuriating worst!!!

One of our listeners sent me an email with this character assassination that I could not have put better myself: 

no heart for a battle, you could see him thinking I’m not up for this

- let players run off of him, getting goal side, because he didn’t fancy it

- tried to hide between the midfield 2 and front 3

- makes no passing angles

- hides behind the opposition so he can’t receive a pass

- can’t get his head up, so gets caught in possession, or delays the pass to a teammate

- fouls needlessly because he’s weak

- can’t cross 

Despite him playing better himself (than under LJ - a low bar), I personally think there’s a strong correlation that since he’s come back into the team, our cohesiveness has gone down the toilet.  He’s had two good 45 minutes....and then rests on his laurels. 

People blaming Paterson’s quiet games, might want to think if it’s because he’s playing alongside a poor replacement for Weimann. 

I think he has a detrimental impact on the team. 

Callum O’Dowda is the epitome of a cushy professional footballer.  He’s the epitome of every teammate I hated playing alongside when I played. 

He’d be nowhere near my starting eleven, even with injuries.  He needs to be given a good shake....and then sold!!

Blimey! That’s a damming assessment of Irish international CoD................

Whats your thinking behind why DH keeps selecting him?

[Roadrunner]

53 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Blimey! That’s a damming assessment of Irish international CoD................

Whats your thinking behind why DH keeps selecting him?

And the Irish team manager.

[headhunter]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

 

Whats your thinking behind why DH keeps selecting him?

Probably because he trains well. 

[firstdivision]

On 13/12/2020 at 09:17, headhunter said:

This is a recording of last night's FBC Podcast: https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/a-90-minute-performance-rotherham-a-reviewed/

City have often been accused this season of sustaining a level of performance over 90 minutes. They managed it at Rotherham yesterday, only problem was it was 90 minutes of possibly the worst football they have managed to produce through a whole game in  4 1/2 seasons of Championship football!

Ian, DaveFevs, Mark & Headhunter are not happy as they discuss what went wrong in a game where you couldn't draw one single positive from.

We also give our points prediction for the halfway stage of the season which is 5 games from here.

FWIW, and as I said in the POD, I don't buy either the week bench or we were tired as an excuse for yesterday's performance.

If we were only allowed a 6 man bench, not 9, it would have consisted of O'Leary, Diedhiou, Mariappa, Moore, Brunt & Massengo most of whom for varying reasons could command a place on the bench in ANY Championship side. As for tiredness, Norwich, Boro ,Barnsley, Brentford & Reading all played Wednesday too with the latter two scoring crucial goals in the last 10 minutes of their fixtures.

We failed miserably against a side with 1 point from their previous 6 games who, on the day, were up for it more than us by a long way. Easy to blame Holden for what was an undeniable *hit show but I don't see his assistants offering much by way of experience which is what they were brought in for.

 

 

There was a positive - goal difference wasn't completely ruined.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

Probably because he trains well. 

I don’t think DH is the same as  LJ when it comes to training in as much that if a player impresses he’ll get noticed my the head coach.

Like you I struggle to see what CoD brings. He has the pace and the skill to be an effective wide man but we rarely see him ‘do a Murray’  and piss past opponents.

My thinking is that he gets selected because DH sees elements of his game that we fans don’t see. What those elements  are tho is anyone’s guess.

Maybe Gregor could ask him at the next match conference.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

Probably because he trains well. 

Why would that be seen as something worthy of praise, or indeed selection - not just O'Dowda, but surely 'training well' consistently is a minimum expectation of any player?

If you specifically meant 'looks good in training' the same applies imo., they should all be enthusiastic and keep up their standards every day.

 

[Top Robin]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

I don’t think DH is the same as  LJ when it comes to training in as much that if a player impresses he’ll get noticed my the head coach.

Like you I struggle to see what CoD brings. He has the pace and the skill to be an effective wide man but we rarely see him ‘do a Murray’  and piss past opponents.

My thinking is that he gets selected because DH sees elements of his game that we fans don’t see. What those elements  are tho is anyone’s guess.

Maybe Gregor could ask him at the next match conference.

May sound strange but I think COD is too tall to be a tricky wide man. Most skillful wingers are shorter and have a lower centre of gravity which gives them quicker acceleration, more mobility and the ability to operate in tighter spaces.  Also, I think if you are taller with longer legs it makes you easier to be tackled, basically because you have more to aim at and are generally not as quick.

When I think of most decent wingers, they have been quite short.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Top Robin said:

May sound strange but I think COD is too tall to be a tricky wide man. Most skillful wingers are shorter and have a lower centre of gravity which gives them quicker acceleration, more mobility and the ability to operate in tighter spaces.  Also, I think if you are taller with longer legs it makes you easier to be tackled, basically because you have more to aim at and are generally not as quick.

When I think of most decent wingers, they have been quite short.

Alan Walsh and Smudger Smith weren’t exactly lightweight. I’m glad you said ‘most’.

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Alan Walsh and Smudger Smith weren’t exactly lightweight. I’m glad you said ‘most’.

I was thinking Darren Anderton, but you’re right.  Imagine combining Smith and Walsh together....international level in my eyes.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I'm not sure O'Dowda has really improved over his time at AG, and despite noting the comments of some posters I respect who look at different aspects of his game and see more to him than I do, I'm afraid I don't rate him highly.

I said after a season or so that I saw him as a bit of an Automaton and I'm not sure that's changed - can run all day, often looks good running with the ball ( but then loses it far too often) lots of effort and will rarely let you down, but doesn't have any real strong points in his game which ever make him stand out, and he very rarely makes a palpable difference to a match.

I may be hard to please because I like to see flair and skill in professional players, but in the modern game perhaps there's a place for players like O'Dowda who to me are little more than reasonable footballers with endless stamina.

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I may be hard to please because I like to see flair and skill in professional players, but in the modern game perhaps there's a place for players like O'Dowda who to me are little more than reasonable footballers with endless stamina.

Not hard to please at all - most of us love to see flair and trickery from professional players. That’s partly why I really liked Danny Wilson who had such flair players as Roberts and Murray and let they play with freedom.

We rarely, if ever saw that under either of the Johnson’s. Too intent on stifling whatever flair was around - David Noble and Lee Trundle for example.

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not hard to please at all - most of us love to see flair and trickery from professional players. That’s partly why I really liked Danny Wilson who had such flair players as Roberts and Murray and let they play with freedom.

We rarely, if ever saw that under either of the Johnson’s. Too intent on stifling whatever flair was around - David Noble and Lee Trundle for example.

Robert’s and Murray had another side to their game too though didn’t they.  They weren’t just creative types, they would dig in, battle for you, etc.  They had an edge.

Too many City players in more recent years haven’t had that, whether they are skill-based players or not.

Wells is one of the few in the current squad with an edge.

[Sir Geoff]

5 hours ago, headhunter said:

Probably because he trains well. 

I’ve said it before COD is clearly a Monday to Friday player. Turns it on in training but hides on a Saturday.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Not hard to please at all - most of us love to see flair and trickery from professional players. That’s partly why I really liked Danny Wilson who had such flair players as Roberts and Murray and let they play with freedom.

We rarely, if ever saw that under either of the Johnson’s. Too intent on stifling whatever flair was around - David Noble and Lee Trundle for example.

Agreed, I remember City used to regularly lay siege to the opposition goal at AG, particularly in the 2nd half. Wave after wave of attacks down the wings and through the middle, loads of corners and goalmouth action, and me up off my seat shouting all the time.

Barely got up at all in LJ's last couple of seasons or raised my voice some games. Mind you Wilson was div.3 and not certain he could have carried on the level of excitement in this division - a prime example of the eternal City conundrum, often lots of goals and excitement in L1, then, after a few years in the Championship, a lack of excitement and a bit of boredom and discontent sets in.

Never met anyone who doesn't talk fondly of Scott Murray in a City shirt and as a long time contributor you may remember what a big fan I was of Roberts, when, incredibly to me, many on here weren't.