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Southampton


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Hi from Southampton i think in the posts above you have said it all. A couple of points i would like to add. Southampton is a one club city. The whole City is behind the club. I've been to the youth academy and  it is first class, you have all seen the many top players they have sold on, but they recruited well, had young players to fill the gaps and played them, Shearer, Le Tissier. I am sure they could have sold Ward Prowse on , but the chairman and manager have ambition. They had a manager in Mcmenemy who could bring the top players to the club, Alan Ball, Kevin Keegan, Charlie George. I was there that wet and winding night when they lost to Leicester City, fans start leaving the ground in their hundreds as soon as the 2nd goal went in. They have changed their owner a number of times over the years. The current owners of the club Lander Sports investment and Chairman  Gao Jisheng must be very happy at the moment.

Bristol City could and should be playing in the Premiership, but we are not and we all have our opinions why. Yes things are not great at the moment. I am not looking forward to tonight's match, indeed i could be a Southampton fan after living here for  43 years. But after supporting the CITY for 64 years I will still be logging on here tonight, hoping for a better performance and result. COYR's.

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51 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Is he one of the best managers in the world?  And even if so he certainly wasn’t when they appointed him.  Excellent foresight from the person making the decision to appoint him.  

I believe some clubs and their decision-makers - noting that football is played around and across the globe - have worked out that the idea that "the best man for the job" is English and currently working in the same division or the one below, or, don't snigger here, actually already working at your own club, is unlikely, and somewhat myopic. If not a little bit "Brexit." And almost laughable.

And they might even have taken note of the research and the evidence that confirms their suspicion /hunch.

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6 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Hi from Southampton i think in the posts above you have said it all. A couple of points i would like to add. Southampton is a one club city. The whole City is behind the club. I've been to the youth academy and  it is first class, you have all seen the many top players they have sold on, but they recruited well, had young players to fill the gaps and played them, Shearer, Le Tissier. I am sure they could have sold Ward Prowse on , but the chairman and manager have ambition. They had a manager in Mcmenemy who could bring the top players to the club, Alan Ball, Kevin Keegan, Charlie George. I was there that wet and winding night when they lost to Leicester City, fans start leaving the ground in their hundreds as soon as the 2nd goal went in. They have changed their owner a number of times over the years. The current owners of the club Lander Sports investment and Chairman  Gao Jisheng must be very happy at the moment.

Bristol City could and should be playing in the Premiership, but we are not and we all have our opinions why. Yes things are not great at the moment. I am not looking forward to tonight's match, indeed i could be a Southampton fan after living here for  43 years. But after supporting the CITY for 64 years I will still be logging on here tonight, hoping for a better performance and result. COYR's.

McMenemy was manager of 4th division Grimsby prior to joining Southampton. I'm not sure that enabled him to lure Keegan et al although he might've been more personally persuasive or convincing than Dicksy. We did lure Norman Hunter, Joe Royle, Peter Cormack too. With wedge, first and foremost, no doubt.

That Southampton managed to have Alan Shearer come through their ranks is enough to illustrate the gulf between them and us, though. 

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1 hour ago, MATT BCFC said:

They have one of the best managers in world football which helps. 

 

Maybe, but they had Nigel Adkins before this. And before him, they had Paul Sturrock. And before that, Ian Branfoot. And many more that have never been "one of the best managers in world football." So what else can it be that "helps?"

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3 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Maybe, but they had Nigel Adkins before this. And before him, they had Paul Sturrock. And before that, Ian Branfoot. And many more that have never been "one of the best managers in world football." So what else can it be that "helps?"

They've had some great players and some world class players. Adkins was successful for them, too

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1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Yes absolutely and when he left it was probably a mistake by Leipzig to not give him what he wanted.  But what I’m saying is that Southampton were not appointing a massively in demand manager who was regarded as the best in the world. They had foresight that he could do well for their club. 

 

I remember people being shocked he went to Southampton. 

Although most managers now want to manage in the prem, it's where the money is currently. 

You get some highly rated foreign managers coming to championship sides because of that. Just look at Nuno, Bielsa, Farke and Wagner etc. 

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1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

I believe some clubs and their decision-makers - noting that football is played around and across the globe - have worked out that the idea that "the best man for the job" is English and currently working in the same division or the one below, or, don't snigger here, actually already working at your own club, is unlikely, and somewhat myopic. If not a little bit "Brexit." And almost laughable.

And they might even have taken note of the research and the evidence that confirms their suspicion /hunch.

This made me :laugh:.

Makes us sound like a bunch of sheep-$hagging, inbred, hillbillies...

...which may not be too far from the truth 🙂

 

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2 hours ago, Galway Red said:

Foreign managers helps, the quicker we Lansdown/Ashton realises that the better 

Instead of the seemingly constant Nepotism ..............why don't we show some bravery and ambition, rather like Norwich and Southamptom have, by recruiting a foreign coach, preferably a German one?   We have 4 to 5 months to research,   investigate and seek out a replacement for Holden this coming summer.  Surely we have the wherewithal to to find someone suitably talented?  By using advice from senior managers at other clubs and trusted knowledgeable contacts within the game, we should be capable of finding a few viable candidates, interview them, and thus replace a manager, who is a lovely bloke, but who is never going to get us to where we need to be?  

We really need to shed our parochial, provincial stance with regard to recruiting managers, and embrace the greater arena of european football,  so as to find and recruit a coach with fresh input, ideas and wider contacts, where we can find players and a tactical stratergy to take us forward.  This season we are mostly playing mind numbingly tedious football, which is not only lacking any excitement or entertainment, but is now also failing to bring us any points.  Recently outmuscled and outhought by the mighty Rotherham, Millwall and Birmingham, we are seemingly going nowhere fast......and I truly believe a drastic change of perspective is urgently needed, if we are ever going to achieve our ambition of reaching the Premiership?   Those who fail to acknowledge their historical mistakes, are doomed to repeat them.................and that just about says it all, IMHO ?

 

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12 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Instead of the seemingly constant Nepotism ..............why don't we show some bravery and ambition, rather like Norwich and Southamptom have, by recruiting a foreign coach, preferably a German one?   We have 4 to 5 months to research,   investigate and seek out a replacement for Holden this coming summer.  Surely we have the wherewithal to to find someone suitably talented?  By using advice from senior managers at other clubs and trusted knowledgeable contacts within the game, we should be capable of finding a few viable candidates, interview them, and thus replace a manager, who is a lovely bloke, but who is never going to get us to where we need to be?  

We really need to shed our parochial, provincial stance with regard to recruiting managers, and embrace the greater arena of european football,  so as to find and recruit a coach with fresh input, ideas and wider contacts, where we can find players and a tactical stratergy to take us forward.  This season we are mostly playing mind numbingly tedious football, which is not only lacking any excitement or entertainment, but is now also failing to bring us any points.  Recently outmuscled and outhought by the mighty Rotherham, Millwall and Birmingham, we are seemingly going nowhere fast......and I truly believe a drastic change of perspective is urgently needed, if we are ever going to achieve our ambition of reaching the Premiership?   Those who fail to acknowledge their historical mistakes, are doomed to repeat them.................and that just about says it all, IMHO ?

 

Probably won’t get a work permit! 🤣🤣🤣

On a slightly more serious point, the Wagner’s and Farke’s of this world stole a March by being able to recruit cheap players they knew well from their own leagues.  Work permit rules are gonna diminish that opportunity to nil from Jan 1st.

I think there is a genuine need to improve recruitment, but I think Europe and beyond is gonna be so-2020 and we need to improve in UK and Ireland.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Probably won’t get a work permit! 🤣🤣🤣

On a slightly more serious point, the Wagner’s and Farke’s of this world stole a March by being able to recruit cheap players they knew well from their own leagues.  Work permit rules are gonna diminish that opportunity to nil from Jan 1st.

I think there is a genuine need to improve recruitment, but I think Europe and beyond is gonna be so-2020 and we need to improve in UK and Ireland.

Just reading a book on Klopp which you'd enjoy

Interesting how his playing philosophy , and the pressing ,developed and gives a interesting insight into German coaches and how coaches appear to Father or give birth to a group of younger coaches who follow their methods

I've started to wonder, if SL genuinely wants top level football , whether our best chance lies somewhere like Germany - Id like to see a student of one of their pressing coaches identified

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1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Just reading a book on Klopp which you'd enjoy

Interesting how his playing philosophy , and the pressing ,developed and gives a interesting insight into German coaches and how coaches appear to Father or give birth to a group of younger coaches who follow their methods

I've started to wonder, if SL genuinely wants top level football , whether our best chance lies somewhere like Germany - Id like to see a student of one of their pressing coaches identified

Maybe we need to do an exchange - who’s Hannover’s boss.

Even before this recent revolution I always thought German football combined physical and technical really well, and thought it was an untapped market.

I used to watch loads of Bundesliga back in the early 90s on Sky.

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26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Probably won’t get a work permit! 🤣🤣🤣

On a slightly more serious point, the Wagner’s and Farke’s of this world stole a March by being able to recruit cheap players they knew well from their own leagues.  Work permit rules are gonna diminish that opportunity to nil from Jan 1st.

I think there is a genuine need to improve recruitment, but I think Europe and beyond is gonna be so-2020 and we need to improve in UK and Ireland.

Exactly........and while we continue to stare at our navels......other teams (Not all) steal that march upon us.  Although I appreciate the hurdles presented,  by     (MHO,  absurd withdrawl from Europe) are many, they are not insurmountable, and i still believe it is a route we should be seriously looking at.  I am not discounting recruiting a British coach, but it seems that we become so blinkered,   unimaginative and inward looking in that area, that it ends up being an ex player or a in house appointment?  It will not be as easy, once our nationalist ambitions have been achieved, but i believe it could be viable if we really want to do it...........very unlikely at BCFC, I know!!   But i  truly feel that a left field major shake up is needed, because we are treading water and going nowhere at this time.  I just think that Holden is part of the problem, and not the solution, ok sure, give him the rest of the season.....but once we end up out of the play offs, we will need a change of management, come the summer............in which case, lets show some ambition and courage?

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17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Maybe we need to do an exchange - who’s Hannover’s boss.

Even before this recent revolution I always thought German football combined physical and technical really well, and thought it was an untapped market.

I used to watch loads of Bundesliga back in the early 90s on Sky.

Yes , me too - I initially got BSB For 92 Cricket World Cup IIRC and they showed the Bundesliga didn’t they

Was the only live satellite football then.

 

Would be interesting alone , to ask Klopp , Hussenthaller etc to suggest a young upcoming coach that would Instill a pressing style (My favoured approach in modern game for us)

I can see why Huddersfield have tried to do it with the Bielsa school , but I have a feeling that Germany would provide a wider market and it would be worth us spending time analysing some young coaches there - As a overall , think their philposophies match the English game and players ,  much better than say the Dutch 

 

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2 hours ago, 2015 said:

They've had some great players and some world class players. Adkins was successful for them, too

We know this. The question is why? Why have Southampton had this, and not us?

We got to the 1st division decades before them. We had a bigger and better ground than them when we were both in the Second and First divisions in the 70s. We have a support "base" comfortably the equal of theirs. We are both south of England cities miles from the traditional football "hotbeds." 

They got to the top and have had four decades up there. We got there and have had four decades without any more.

Why?

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6 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Did Laurie McMenemy set the standard of management and also the recruitment of young boys for development to first team standard?

I'm only guessing but it seems that since he arrived there, apart from a stutter about ten years ago, they have held their own in the top tier. Never to be a giant like Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, but a solid club that continually regenerates and is run properly.

Four years ago, I met a City fan who is a full time scout for a Premier League club. He was damning in his assessment of City as a football club compared with the likes of Norwich, Saints, Brighton.

We have everything in place financially, our Academy appears to be developing some useful talent, yet we still seem to be unable to produce a first team which has a recognizable pattern of play, we still get bypassed by so many other similar clubs.

I despair that we will ever achieve what we should be screaming for. Some recognition of our club as a club like Southampton, Leicester, Wolves, Middlesboro and so many others. 

Lansdown appears to settle for football mediocrity yet has appointed a top coach for Bristol Bears who will bring silverware and respect.

Such a misleading comparison, in some respects- sorry.

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5 hours ago, solihull cider red said:

Starting with some that has always iirked me about Southampton, they get refered to as a club with a small scouting network due to their location (or at least they used to) and successfully picked up Bale and Walcott from South Wales & Hertfordshire - fair play to them for being able to consistently produce good, young talent though - I can't help but think City of the early 2000's would have made sure both did not have a succesful footballing career.

Something that has really worked for them was their ownership model, Markus Leibherr and his daughter both had great influence over the stability as they came back from league one. Nicola Coretese was also an astute aquisition by all accounts & worked closely with then. They made foreign ownership work, & business wise, not much has gone wrong, it's easy to ignore that success because it wasn't always on the pitch (comparing their ambition to Rupert Lowe of the late 90's/early 2000's).

Their blip (appointing Hughes) which wasn't a massive mistake but it is an outlier in the context of the other managers, came as new ownership came in. It's possible that they didn't keep things in the same way that Leibherr did & I distinctly remember the dissatisfaction of fans under Puel. This time around, I think they're made a really good managerial appointment but it has highlighted that a good academy, off the pitch model and manager/coaching team are required to make it work.

I have a feeling Swansea also had either a change of ownrship or strategy that the fans have been very quick to criticise since their demise - linking it back to just after the League Cup win. I'm not sure whether that is a case of "We peaked when we won the cup and it went downhill from there" or "The club stopped doing x and started doing y".

Another very well run club who built on a good model by bringing through players and making the right managerial decisions at the right time.

Hughes kept them up but didn't really build on anything- one win in 13 or similar when he got sacked, bit of an outlier as you say.

Swansea wise, I think Laudrup going, change of philosophy that started it- probably the change of ownership accelerated it and though most of the managers post Jackett at the start to Laudrup at the end had their good and bad points- no consistency of philosophy or recruitment. Well that's how it looked to me from the outside. Maybe they and Monk had no choice, maybe the players all wanted to leave in the summer with Laudrup's agent, or at the earliest opportunity post his sacking.

Jackett-Martinez-Sousa-Rodgers-Laudrup. Monk did some strong short term things but...

Read online at the time that Laudrup lost interest in his final season, no idea if it's true- they seemed to still be strongly performing in Europe and the Cup but a bit meh in the League.

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7 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Did Laurie McMenemy set the standard of management and also the recruitment of young boys for development to first team standard?

I'm only guessing but it seems that since he arrived there, apart from a stutter about ten years ago, they have held their own in the top tier. Never to be a giant like Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, but a solid club that continually regenerates and is run properly.

Four years ago, I met a City fan who is a full time scout for a Premier League club. He was damning in his assessment of City as a football club compared with the likes of Norwich, Saints, Brighton.

We have everything in place financially, our Academy appears to be developing some useful talent, yet we still seem to be unable to produce a first team which has a recognizable pattern of play, we still get bypassed by so many other similar clubs.

I despair that we will ever achieve what we should be screaming for. Some recognition of our club as a club like Southampton, Leicester, Wolves, Middlesboro and so many others. 

Lansdown appears to settle for football mediocrity yet has appointed a top coach for Bristol Bears who will bring silverware and respect.

A former poster coaches for Southampton in.somerset he is damning about city's coaching and scouting set up. Saints are all over the South and southwest. Bristol city start and end in bristol. 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Yes , me too - I initially got BSB For 92 Cricket World Cup IIRC and they showed the Bundesliga didn’t they

Was the only live satellite football then.

 

Would be interesting alone , to ask Klopp , Hussenthaller etc to suggest a young upcoming coach that would Instill a pressing style (My favoured approach in modern game for us)

I can see why Huddersfield have tried to do it with the Bielsa school , but I have a feeling that Germany would provide a wider market and it would be worth us spending time analysing some young coaches there - As a overall , think their philposophies match the English game and players ,  much better than say the Dutch 

 

Philosophy is a word I’ve used many a time usually when talking about mentors / mentees.

Where is Holden’s footballing philosophy derived from?

Where was LJ’s?  His dad I believe.

It doesn’t have to come from a Cruyff or a Klopp, but I do think you have to have something to hang your hat on, even if over time you adapt and change.

My philosophy on how to play most definitely isn’t very pure in terms of playing through the thirds like Man City, but I think that comes from watching lots of non-top flight football.

I like high-lines, congestion in the middle of the pitch without the ball, to allow runs in channels (not aimless hoofs into channels) with the ball and to build position on pitch.  It relies on pace.  It’s a pretty basic philosophy.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Philosophy is a word I’ve used many a time usually when talking about mentors / mentees.

Where is Holden’s footballing philosophy derived from?

Where was LJ’s?  His dad I believe.

It doesn’t have to come from a Cruyff or a Klopp, but I do think you have to have something to hang your hat on, even if over time you adapt and change.

My philosophy on how to play most definitely isn’t very pure in terms of playing through the thirds like Man City, but I think that comes from watching lots of non-top flight football.

I like high-lines, congestion in the middle of the pitch without the ball, to allow runs in channels (not aimless hoofs into channels) with the ball and to build position on pitch.  It relies on pace.  It’s a pretty basic philosophy.

Spot on

Klopps started early as a player , influenced by a head coach at Mainz , and he has carried that on throughout his coaching career

 

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On 16/12/2020 at 12:14, exAtyeoMax said:

Two of my friends are Saints fans, they nearly gave up going a couple of years ago because it was so bad, they nearly got relegated. It hasn't always been great.

This season seems strange, where teams who were flying last season now appear to be struggling…

I have heard similar from a mate who`s been a Saints ST holder for about forty years. She said she often thought she`d rather the club got relegated so she could enjoy it again rather than going to games knowing that the team`s main priority would be to not lose. 

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9 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I have heard similar from a mate who`s been a Saints ST holder for about forty years. She said she often thought she`d rather the club got relegated so she could enjoy it again rather than going to games knowing that the team`s main priority would be to not lose. 

Yes, my friend mentioned that too…said it got boring.

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2 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

We know this. The question is why? Why have Southampton had this, and not us?

We got to the 1st division decades before them. We had a bigger and better ground than them when we were both in the Second and First divisions in the 70s. We have a support "base" comfortably the equal of theirs. We are both south of England cities miles from the traditional football "hotbeds." 

They got to the top and have had four decades up there. We got there and have had four decades without any more.

Why?

They have been run properly and have had chairman’s and owners who have crucially made the right decisions at the right times..

The Steve Lansdown fan boy’s will never admitt it but for all his wealth he has made some really poor footballing decisions in his 18 years as a owner of this football club. 

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1 hour ago, Trueredsupporter said:

A former poster coaches for Southampton in.somerset he is damning about city's coaching and scouting set up. Saints are all over the South and southwest. Bristol city start and end in bristol. 

 

 

I had trials for Southampton as a kid they spotted me playing in the hanham minor league.. says it all really. Do we have City scouts in Southampton? I doubt it.

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8 minutes ago, bris red said:

I had trials for Southampton as a kid they spotted me playing in the hanham minor league.. says it all really. Do we have City scouts in Southampton? I doubt it.

Saints scouts were often watching our games as a kid in North Somerset, along with Villa, Norwich and Rovers. City were seldom on the scene. I’d have hoped that had changed in the years since, but it seems like it hasn’t? Although we do seemingly have links with Bristol Inner City. 

Southampton is a place I know well and the club isn’t followed as fervently as Pompey, but they’re run a damn site better. The ambition and philosophy has been clear for years, unlike our short-term scattergun approach. 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Philosophy is a word I’ve used many a time usually when talking about mentors / mentees.

Where is Holden’s footballing philosophy derived from?

Where was LJ’s?  His dad I believe.

It doesn’t have to come from a Cruyff or a Klopp, but I do think you have to have something to hang your hat on, even if over time you adapt and change.

My philosophy on how to play most definitely isn’t very pure in terms of playing through the thirds like Man City, but I think that comes from watching lots of non-top flight football.

I like high-lines, congestion in the middle of the pitch without the ball, to allow runs in channels (not aimless hoofs into channels) with the ball and to build position on pitch.  It relies on pace.  It’s a pretty basic philosophy.

I actually think both Johnson's are too flexible with their philosophy. They would adapt depending on who we were playing and even the state of the pitch. 

I think there's something in a being quite rigid to a philosophy and only making slight adjustments to who you are playing. 

Klopp has his philosophy of the gegen press but will adjust it slightly depending on who they are playing. So if for example a certain player on the opposition has the ball that will be the signal to all press. 

 

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