BcfcDuncs Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 Hard to blame creativity in the second half for our problems. Martin and Wells were none existence all game, Wells maybe with a couple of touches here and there, but Martin terrible, he is a good player but terrible lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, BcfcDuncs said: Hard to blame creativity in the second half for our problems. Martin and Wells were none existence all game, Wells maybe with a couple of touches here and there, but Martin terrible, he is a good player but terrible lately. One goal in 20 is that now? There are goalkeepers who've scored more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobArnold10 Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 Tell me what chances they’ve had? You could put Harry Kane and Sergio Aguero up there and we’d see the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kykoliko Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 Just now, RobArnold10 said: Tell me what chances they’ve had? You could put Harry Kane and Sergio Aguero up there and we’d see the same. I get what you're saying but that's a pretty poor example. The best of the best strikers can create and convert their own chances. Mid-table Championship strikers don't have that luxury sadly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BcfcDuncs Posted December 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, RobArnold10 said: Tell me what chances they’ve had? You could put Harry Kane and Sergio Aguero up there and we’d see the same. Haven't they got to get into the positions to create chances?, and quality players create their own. Im not saying they are bad player's but they both need to do alot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, RobArnold10 said: Tell me what chances they’ve had? You could put Harry Kane and Sergio Aguero up there and we’d see the same. Rubbish. Strikers have to do stuff not just wait to shoot. Kane this season is a primary example of a striker doing a lot more than just hanging about up front waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobArnold10 Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kykoliko said: I get what you're saying but that's a pretty poor example. The best of the best strikers can create and convert their own chances. Mid-table Championship strikers don't have that luxury sadly... Best of the best make and score their own chances. Okay. So given that we don’t have those players, because we are mid table champ, you need supply. Which they don’t have. I don’t get how you’re disagreeing with me? Let’s go this way then. If Tammy was on loan for his first season in these team, he’d be lucky to get double figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobArnold10 Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 Just now, The Bard said: Rubbish. Strikers have to do stuff not just wait to shoot. Kane this season is a primary example of a striker doing a lot more than just hanging about up front waiting. Both strikers are in the game but I’d love to see their touch map, bet 80+% is outside the box. Beggars belief that these strikers are taking the brunt when there’s zero for them to get involved with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kykoliko Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 Just now, RobArnold10 said: Best of the best make and score their own chances. Okay. So given that we don’t have those players, because we are mid table champ, you need supply. Which they don’t have. I don’t get how you’re disagreeing with me? Let’s go this way then. If Tammy was on loan for his first season in these team, he’d be lucky to get double figures. I'm not disagreeing with you. I very much implied that in my post. Just said that using Kane and Aguero to articulate your point probably wasn't the best choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobArnold10 Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Kykoliko said: I'm not disagreeing with you. I very much implied that in my post. Just said that using Kane and Aguero to articulate your point probably wasn't the best choice. Exaggerating for effect but even so, we are a strikers graveyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 We are incapable of opening defences up, zero little one two’s in the opposition last third, no working decent positions for shots ( ok, one for COD), yes we got crosses in to the box, but I can only think of one or two that were actually dangerous. Even then we rarely had anyone attacking the ball. We just have to hold on in there and hope we can improve, and quickly. I genuinely feel for DH, he wants it as much as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 Norwich and Bournemouth are excellent. Rubbish thread, boooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 They don’t look interested. Same sterile tactics that got Deans predecessor the sack . Play the kids up top can they really offer less than Wells, martin , Seymeno and Fammy as goalscorers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, RobArnold10 said: Tell me what chances they’ve had? You could put Harry Kane and Sergio Aguero up there and we’d see the same. Tbf when Martin is as mobile as a turtle and barely wins a header it’s hard to build a attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstdivision Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, RobArnold10 said: Tell me what chances they’ve had? You could put Harry Kane and Sergio Aguero up there and we’d see the same. Sorry - that’s nonsense. Being a front man is more than just about scoring. It’s about holding it up, laying it off at a clever angle, having some pace to worry a defender. Martin has been a passenger for several games now. His lack of athleticism and pace have been exposed by having to slog out our recent fixtures. He’s looked like an ageing donkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadredfred Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, RobArnold10 said: Exaggerating for effect but even so, we are a strikers graveyard. Spot on. People point to Wells record at QPR but that was presumably with some kind of service. He’s a finisher. He needs something to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 These two are sulking and thing they are better than us. Sad thing is they are probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobArnold10 Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 minute ago, firstdivision said: Sorry - that’s nonsense. Being a front man is more than just about scoring. It’s about holding it up, laying it off at a clever angle, having some pace to worry a defender. Martin has been a passenger for several games now. His lack of athleticism and pace have been exposed by having to slog out our recent fixtures. He’s looked like an ageing donkey. As a whole? Yeah of course a striker is more than goals. But Martin is best used on the edge of the box, and in the box. Annnnnnd tell me how many touches we’ve given him that area? Strikers, like all players, have strengths and weaknesses. Martin and Wells’ strengths have not been even close to utilised. Now, for me I think vs Millwall we should have started Fam over Martin, but that’s more of an aside. The bottom line is we are not getting these players in the positions they are most effective. It’s like lumping balls up to Wilbs to run behind defenders, or giving Wells target man balls. It’s basic stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Hankey Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 18 minutes ago, shelts said: They don’t look interested. Same sterile tactics that got Deans predecessor the sack . Play the kids up top can they really offer less than Wells, martin , Seymeno and Fammy as goalscorers ? What the **** are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said: What the **** are you talking about? #### Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 39 minutes ago, BcfcDuncs said: Hard to blame creativity in the second half for our problems. Martin and Wells were none existence all game, Wells maybe with a couple of touches here and there, but Martin terrible, he is a good player but terrible lately. We create virtually nothing, if the strikers were missing chances then yeah, I'd criticise them . I agree Martin hs been poor, but he's also been flogged to death, Holden has had chances to rotate but just keeps playing him, and in a system that hasn't helped him. Wells is either playing wide, where his ability to finish is wasted, or he's gone looking for the ball because we are not giving him chances to the or miss. 34 minutes ago, Kykoliko said: I get what you're saying but that's a pretty poor example. The best of the best strikers can create and convert their own chances. Mid-table Championship strikers don't have that luxury sadly... Not many strikers make their own chances. Aguero may score from half chances, Kane score great headers or finish from outside of the box, but someone gets the ball there. Until the 2nd half we didn't keep the ball in the final third long enough to create anything. Unless you're like Son, pick up the ball in your own half , beat 5 players and score, you live and die on service. Ours has been shite. Not saying they've been good, but much better strikers would struggle in our side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Hankey Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 minute ago, shelts said: #### Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfitInMyPocket Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 Fam would have gobbled up those looped crosses but hes useless apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossi the Robin Posted December 18, 2020 Report Share Posted December 18, 2020 A better striker might actually shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 Horrifically static and do not commit defenders or drag them out of position to create spaces for others. Whether this is what they are instructed to do or not, only DH knows... The last three teams we have played would have loved playing against Martin, who they know does not have the movement or attributes to be able to pull them out of their defensive shape. It does not seem to suit Martin at all to play these teams who are happy to defend deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 9 hours ago, marcofisher said: Horrifically static and do not commit defenders or drag them out of position to create spaces for others. Whether this is what they are instructed to do or not, only DH knows... The last three teams we have played would have loved playing against Martin, who they know does not have the movement or attributes to be able to pull them out of their defensive shape. It does not seem to suit Martin at all to play these teams who are happy to defend deep. Point about 3 5 2 is that the strikers have to drift wide because there is no width higher up the pitch. It seems like they're instructed to stay central which clearly isn't working. Semenyo's a good option up front in 3 5 2 for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 Martin needs to be rested. Urgently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 1 hour ago, JonDolman said: Martin being so slow means he will never get many chances. And what I've noticed in recent games is the missed chances to get onto a loose ball because his legs just can't get him there. Semenyo or Wells and I reckon Fam too would have made some of those loose balls. I think he is a problem with how we play. Midfield are getting the blame, but I don't see midfield as being such a problem. Tactics are majorly to blame, not individuals per se. If you play a system that requires Martin to run large distances to close down defenders, then either it’s a master-plan with some unknown magic I’ve yet to see, or it’s flawed, as it will waste his energy. Same with the midfield, if they have cover large distances w/o the ball, little surprise that they feel tired when they get the ball. You want your players using their energy efficiently. The current system isn’t a team based system, and that impacts individuals and units in that team. This current system has been in place for several games now and quite simply, it doesn’t work. It ain’t whether it’s 433, 352 or even 442, it bigger than that. Just as easy is it for posters to say we’ve now gotta go 442 because it worked sporadically second half, I could pick it to pieces for how at times Preston dealt with it and countered that change themselves. It was better as a performance second half, but it just about met my expectations of how we should have performed across the 90...but only did it for 45. Don't forget (in a role reversal of Cardiff) that Preston had the lead, and were quite happy to sit in, stay compact and rely on the odd counter. It made us look better as a result. Don’t be fooled it’s the new “magic tactic”. 442 lost us the game second half v Brum. Again not an individual player’s fault....although I’m sure you’ll agree it took O’Dowda out of any position where he could influence, where him and Nagy had started to build in the latter stages of the first half. As a fan base and a forum we are too knee-jerk to pin our hopes on the next false-dawn / false-Dean I think injuries are a big mitigating factor, but the management are currently making mistakes that are exacerbating it. Quite worried at the mo’. Not in terms of relegation or anything as bad as that....but the season could ebb away quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted December 19, 2020 Report Share Posted December 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Martin needs to be arrested. Urgently. Corrected that for you. His lack of effort and mobility has been criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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