The root cause of our problem

[Sheltons Army]

8 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Ashton has consistently said he puts the list together but ultimately the manager says yes or no. 

No he didn’t - He compiles a list of targets with the head coach and recruitment group , an ongoing process 

Ive heard him and the head coaches speak many times and consistently about the process, including at length at forums etc

[City oz]

1 minute ago, steveybadger said:

Thanks for taking the time to post this, it almost entirely sums up my views. It’s funny isn’t it, a month or so ago when we were in the top 6 or better and were less decimated with injuries there was hardly any moaning (except perhaps about the ongoing struggle to break teams down at home which is fair enough). Now, after a few defeats huge structural issues emerge and are the reasons for 3 defeats on the trot.

Stevey  mate, there is only one answer to this. “Structural issues” what a joke . We have a world class stadium, great supporters, great cider, we all watch our city players when they have the opportunity to play for their international clubs, we all want prem football. However if you are genuine 3 defeats is not normal for us and its time for the Lansdowns and the other cashed up board members to bite the bullet and pay some serious cash for a real world class manager / coach. 

[italian dave]

10 hours ago, JonDolman said:

To be fair to Ashton, I wouldn't blame him for the 10 unavailable players tonight. That's the real problem we have at the moment

Have we blamed the medical team yet?!

[BigAl&Toby]

@Code Redthe problem lays firmly at the door of the man ensconced behind his office door in the shiny building in Canons Marsh.

Time for the Messiah to announce over the tannoy “can Mr Ashton come to my office. There’s a footballing disaster unfolding in BS3.”

Will it happen? Sadly not. This is the new norm....

[CityCiderEd]

9 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Thanks for taking the time to post this, it almost entirely sums up my views. It’s funny isn’t it, a month or so ago when we were in the top 6 or better and were less decimated with injuries there was hardly any moaning (except perhaps about the ongoing struggle to break teams down at home which is fair enough). Now, after a few defeats huge structural issues emerge and are the reasons for 3 defeats on the trot.

It always comes to a head after a run of defeats coupled with terrible performances. Whilst we were winning games I usually felt at the end that how the bloody hell did we win that and think how we had a massive slice of good fortune. But that only papers over the cracks and you can't be lucky every week with uninspiring football. Injuries have hit us hard but surely the players in the squad that come in should have a reasonable enough skill set that would allow them to control and pass the ball to their own players, cross a ball properly without continually overhitting or hitting the first man and defending as a unit seeing as they are trained all week as part of their jobs as pros. Perhaps when all the injured players are back we may see an upturn in performances and fortunes because the standard of the current football we've been watching for quite a while has been as dire at home as it has been for the last few years.

[Midred]

7 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

@Code Redthe problem lays firmly at the door of the man ensconced behind his office door in the shiny building in Canons Marsh.

Time for the Messiah to announce over the tannoy “can Mr Ashton come to my office. There’s a footballing disaster unfolding in BS3.”

Will it happen? Sadly not. This is the new norm....

Don't think he works there any more?

[BigAl&Toby]

2 hours ago, BCFC Grim said:

Couldn't agree anymore. 

How such a successful business man can be so inept at running a football club is astounding.

 @BCFC Grimbizarre isn’t it? Unless of course he has no interest in running a football team.

After all he’s got other sporting and non sporting interests on his mind. Unlike many BCFC fans the football element is only a part of it. If he’s seeing progress elsewhere then the football club element will matter less.

As @Kid in the Riotsays Holden, Ashton and anything and anyone else are symptoms.

The problem is with he who’s making us proud.

[City oz]

5 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Have we blamed the medical team yet?!

Why blame the medical team as this is just another excuse. All clubs have a bad run of injuries.

The stature and the body of the club, the commitment, the correct players put in the correct positions to play their full potential, the desire to win, the desire to be at a club that consistently plays good football and win more than lose is the ultimate responsibility of the boss and we all know who that is 

[City oz]

1 minute ago, BigAl&Toby said:

 @BCFC Grimbizarre isn’t it? Unless of course he has no interest in running a football team.

After all he’s got other sporting and non sporting interests on his mind. Unlike many BCFC fans the football element is only a part of it. If he’s seeing progress elsewhere then the football club element will matter less.

As @Kid in the Riotsays Holden, Ashton and anything and anyone else are symptoms.

The problem is with he who’s making us proud.

Might have got it wrong but who is making you proud ?

[Nomad]

15 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

@Code Redthe problem lays firmly at the door of the man ensconced behind his office door in the shiny building in Canons Marsh.

Time for the Messiah to announce over the tannoy “can Mr Ashton come to my office. There’s a footballing disaster unfolding in BS3.”

Will it happen? Sadly not. This is the new norm....

Hargreaves?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Incorrect. 
Ashton had a hand in the recruitment under McInnes. 

 

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Ashton was a consultant - brought in to set up the recruitment database,  he was therefore known to the club and SL, not sure of the timescale but it was certainly before Steve Cotterill was appointed 

Is Trump influencing your thinking?
Has the Illuminati taken hold of City?
Is Ike a 'consultant' to the conspiracies that regularly frequent otib?

Just at what time is your ability to think suspended, just to create some theory that supports your beliefs?

[havanatopia]

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

And you are getting this from where exactly.......

Present at the interviews ?

 

"................Or did you just make it up 

Do I come across to you as someone who makes things up?

When someone tells me something in confidence that is exactly how it shall remain. 

[CodeRed]

10 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

 

Is Trump influencing your thinking?
Has the Illuminati taken hold of City?
Is Ike a 'consultant' to the conspiracies that regularly frequent otib?

Just at what time is your ability to think suspended, just to create some theory that supports your beliefs?

You're going to look very stupid now. This is the official BCFC press release when former consultant Mark Ashton was appointed. Read and learn. He was s consultant in 2013

Bristol City FC has today announced that Mark Ashton has been appointed as chief operating officer.

Ashton assumes control of all day-to-day football operations, having previously worked with the club in a consultancy capacity.

He was heavily involved in establishing the talent identification and recruitment system which was the foundation of player recruitment in spring / early summer 2014. In addition, Ashton led the project that enabled the club to secure Category 2 status for the Academy while moving it to its present home at SGS College, Filton.

He left that temporary role to lead the group which acquired Oxford United and became the club’s CEO in the first half of 2014.

Since this time he has been widely credited with overhauling the League Two club’s operations and putting in place new controls, player recruitment and talent identification systems.

City majority shareholder Steve Lansdown said: “We made sure we didn’t lose contact with Mark after he had done such an excellent job for us in establishing the systems which were used to such good effect in the 2014 summer transfer window.

“We are delighted we have managed to persuade him to join us again, this time on a permanent basis. This appointment is a further step in our long-term strategy to build the best on and off the pitch specialist expertise across our whole group.”

Ashton said: “I’m excited to be back at Ashton Gate and joining the club at such an important time in its history. I’m looking forward to leading the club and building on the work I initiated a couple of years ago.

[Gert Mare]

Like it or not the main priorities are self-sustainability and profitability. Promotion to the Premier League would be a bonus. City are now an established Championship club and have produced and sold players for a healthy profit. In terms of what has been required and achieved from a business perspective it’s happy days. The problem from a football perspective is that the quality of what is coming through during this current transition is unlikely to produce the same level of profit.

Whatever changes are made in the future the business model will not change. The investment continues to be made in the infrastructure to attract the talent of the future that can be nurtured and given the opportunity to find a way into the first team. Then as soon as they are established and playing well the club will seek a return on the investment.

Adjustments will be made to help keep the club in the Championship with experienced players from elsewhere, but the bank won’t be broken to bring them in, plus the club will still have to navigate the rules of FFP.

It’s not just as black and white as fans want it to be. 

This season we are also blighted by many injuries to key players. On the treatment table they might be, but their wages still have to be paid.

On the pitch we are struggling mainly by the lack of available players and unfortunately we are having to rely on players either out of form or simply not experienced enough or up to Championship standard.

[havanatopia]

1 hour ago, steveybadger said:

Ashton has consistently said he puts the list together but ultimately the manager says yes or no. 

No wonder a bigger name would not touch the club with a barge pole then. !!

Imagine telling Eddie... Here's your list mate go pick a couple. Fanciful.

[italian dave]

36 minutes ago, City oz said:

Why blame the medical team as this is just another excuse. All clubs have a bad run of injuries.

The stature and the body of the club, the commitment, the correct players put in the correct positions to play their full potential, the desire to win, the desire to be at a club that consistently plays good football and win more than lose is the ultimate responsibility of the boss and we all know who that is 

Not intended as a serious suggestion. We just seemed to be running through everyone at the club, owner, manager, ceo, and then someone mentioned injuries. 

[Dan24]

12 hours ago, CodeRed said:

Is Mark Ashton

The problem is Ashton,

Either Dean is not up to the job- If so it's Ashton's fault, his rigorous process claimed to have found the right man to "get us over the line" 

Or the players aren't good enough. If Ashton signed them it's down to him. if Dean / LJ had full control of signings (they didn't by the way...) then who appointed them? Ashton.

Maybe it's the coaches? So who has full responsibility for all football decisions and appointments them. Ashton.

Perhaps the recruitment database software is crap?  Who supplied & implemented it? Ashton.

Maybe the analysts are crap at their job and are identifying the wrong players , and giving the wrong analysis to the coaches? Well who employed them and who do they report to? Ashton.

What else could be the problem? We don't have many scouts ( mostly freelance) as we rely on (Ashton's) database but those we do have report to .... Ashton. 

Discuss

Absolute head loss. 9 first team injuries, 1 suspension. Almost a whole 11 not available. Do you not take these things into consideration? Just look at our bench last night - apart from Semenyo there wasn't anyone there with a spark of creativity.

Give Holden some time these posts are getting stupid. Don't get how you can all be so negative being just outside the play-offs with one of the worst injury lists in the country.

[the1stknowle]

2 hours ago, havanatopia said:

 

 

During the interview process it was made clear to each interviewee that Mark Ashton would be in control of player signings. In other words he had the right of veto. This did not sit comfortably with at least three known candidates who were each offered the job. Two successful Englishmen and one Foreign chap. I think we would all have been delighted with any of them. By the time we reached, what was it, about 6 weeks Ashton was out of options. It was then that Holden came into focus. While I think Holden is a decent man and has actually been doing a decent job his novelty, that of being 'anybody but Lee' is wearing off with the players. As clear as night follows day this could have been predicted by most of us. 

The thought Ashton picked the best candidate is so disingenuous that it has completely broken the trust with the average supporter. Think of the Geoff T interview; the anger that arose inside Ashton that evening was clear; he had been outed.

Cheap option? Without a doubt but it was not by intent it was because Holden would not have the final say on player signings. 

The idea that Steve L has poured hundreds of millions into the club and refuses to amend the failed plan of a CEO choosing and/or having final say on player signings is more than baffling given the abject failure each season that passes.

 

I don’t believe this. If this is true why would you not just name the 2 Englishmen and one foreign bloke? It’s internet hintery. ‘Hint hint I’ve said too much already but trust me I know.’ 
Come on. 

[Dan24]

14 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

No wonder a bigger name would not touch the club with a barge pole then. !!

Imagine telling Eddie... Here's your list mate go pick a couple. Fanciful.

Bigger name is working out well for Forest isn't it. Almost as if we're not just outside the play-offs with 10 first team players unavailable. Have a day off.

[the1stknowle]

24 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Do I come across to you as someone who makes things up?

When someone tells me something in confidence that is exactly how it shall remain. 

Yes. You do. 
 

you haven’t kept the confidence. You’ve broken it by revealing the story and just obscured some details that you have no reason to obscure. You don’t need to reveal your source but you do need to add some details to make it believable. 

[BigTone]

29 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

You're going to look very stupid now. This is the official BCFC press release when former consultant Mark Ashton was appointed. Read and learn. He was s consultant in 2013

Bristol City FC has today announced that Mark Ashton has been appointed as chief operating officer.

Ashton assumes control of all day-to-day football operations, having previously worked with the club in a consultancy capacity.

He was heavily involved in establishing the talent identification and recruitment system which was the foundation of player recruitment in spring / early summer 2014. In addition, Ashton led the project that enabled the club to secure Category 2 status for the Academy while moving it to its present home at SGS College, Filton.

He left that temporary role to lead the group which acquired Oxford United and became the club’s CEO in the first half of 2014.

Since this time he has been widely credited with overhauling the League Two club’s operations and putting in place new controls, player recruitment and talent identification systems.

City majority shareholder Steve Lansdown said: “We made sure we didn’t lose contact with Mark after he had done such an excellent job for us in establishing the systems which were used to such good effect in the 2014 summer transfer window.

“We are delighted we have managed to persuade him to join us again, this time on a permanent basis. This appointment is a further step in our long-term strategy to build the best on and off the pitch specialist expertise across our whole group.”

Ashton said: “I’m excited to be back at Ashton Gate and joining the club at such an important time in its history. I’m looking forward to leading the club and building on the work I initiated a couple of years ago.

Can't argue with that. It would have been when he was CEO of Tactical Change. Doesn't alter the fact that laying all of the clubs ills at Ashtons feet is total bollocks.

[Bristol Oil Services]

16 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

Like it or not the main priorities are self-sustainability and profitability. Promotion to the Premier League would be a bonus. 

SL will surely know that the former will depend on the latter becoming reality at some point? In other words, while we are, or have been, "growing" attendances, up to about 20/21k, enthusiasm will "plateau" or even decline, if we go around in circles, season after season, finishing between 12th and 8th. You can only "tease" for so long, before many say: that's it, either put up or I'm off.

And especially with the current poor, very poor, standard of football. Enthusiasm will wither while we manage only two or three shots at goal.

The continued "self-sustainability" relies upon promotion and the tremendous riches to be had there, even for utter failure and relegation. Without it, within the next few seasons, Greater losses and subsequent cuts to the playing wage bill will surely follow?

 

This is why, in my view, it is legitimate to question and hold to account, the head coach, the CEO, and the owner too. The bar has been set - by Steve Lansdown - so how are we doing in relation to this yardstick?

 

[Bristol Rob]

Okay, so the answer seems to be...

Reappoint Colin Sexton, who in turn can reach out to Eileen Drewrey who, though the power of faith will work a miracle on our sick, lame and suspended.

The power of Colin and Eileen will see the Malabo part, and in walk the manager to lead us to the promised land. Spending big on superhuman players who are immune to pain.

All of this will be funded by a pixie who followed a star whilst riding aloft a rainbow unicorn, keeping us well withing FFP rules and not needing us to sell Marina Dolman's Rolls Royce to a shady 3rd party, buying it back again and then reselling it for parts.

Yes!

Clearly the problem at the club must be Maggie L, so far she is the only person who hasn't been blamed. And if she hadn't been so quick to stuck every painting Jon had done on the fridge door, we would never have had the comic sans or centenary master piece.

The funds we could have generated with proper kits would have paid for the Liverpool side to have torn up their contracts and signed for us, where promotion would have been achieved by Christmas and everyone would be happy.

[Sheltons Army]

35 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Do I come across to you as someone who makes things up?

When someone tells me something in confidence that is exactly how it shall remain. 

Impressed you know someone who was party / witness , to the interviews and has confided in you.......

 

Jon , or Mark Himself  ?

 

 

 

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

You're going to look very stupid now. This is the official BCFC press release when former consultant Mark Ashton was appointed. Read and learn. He was s consultant in 2013

Bristol City FC has today announced that Mark Ashton has been appointed as chief operating officer.

Ashton assumes control of all day-to-day football operations, having previously worked with the club in a consultancy capacity.

He was heavily involved in establishing the talent identification and recruitment system which was the foundation of player recruitment in spring / early summer 2014. In addition, Ashton led the project that enabled the club to secure Category 2 status for the Academy while moving it to its present home at SGS College, Filton.

He left that temporary role to lead the group which acquired Oxford United and became the club’s CEO in the first half of 2014.

Since this time he has been widely credited with overhauling the League Two club’s operations and putting in place new controls, player recruitment and talent identification systems.

City majority shareholder Steve Lansdown said: “We made sure we didn’t lose contact with Mark after he had done such an excellent job for us in establishing the systems which were used to such good effect in the 2014 summer transfer window.

“We are delighted we have managed to persuade him to join us again, this time on a permanent basis. This appointment is a further step in our long-term strategy to build the best on and off the pitch specialist expertise across our whole group.”

Ashton said: “I’m excited to be back at Ashton Gate and joining the club at such an important time in its history. I’m looking forward to leading the club and building on the work I initiated a couple of years ago.

Thanks for digging this up.

Ashton assumes control of all day-to-day football operations. (my underlining). There it is, officially. 

So it puzzles me that whenever it is pointed out there are those who dispute the fact and believe that the Head Coach is in control.

[Banjo Red]

Makes you think all the applicants for the managers job were not happy with Ashton's involvement with the recruitment of players. Hence yes man Holden got it.

[chinapig]

43 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Can't argue with that. It would have been when he was CEO of Tactical Change. Doesn't alter the fact that laying all of the clubs ills at Ashtons feet is total bollocks.

So he is in control of all day to day football operations but is not accountable? Power without responsibility. Nice work if you can get it.

[BigTone]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

So he is in control of all day to day football operations but is not accountable? Power without responsibility. Nice work if you can get it.

Didn't say that though did I.

[chinapig]

Just now, BigTone said:

Didn't say that though did I.

So given he is man with most of the power would you accept he should be the most accountable?

[havanatopia]

53 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

Yes. You do. 
 

you haven’t kept the confidence. You’ve broken it by revealing the story and just obscured some details that you have no reason to obscure. You don’t need to reveal your source but you do need to add some details to make it believable. 

Afraid you have no idea what part I was asked not to reveal. Believe what you will; no skin off my nose.