Jump to content
IGNORED

The root cause of our problem


CodeRed

Recommended Posts

42 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

You're going to look very stupid now. This is the official BCFC press release when former consultant Mark Ashton was appointed. Read and learn. He was s consultant in 2013

Bristol City FC has today announced that Mark Ashton has been appointed as chief operating officer.

Ashton assumes control of all day-to-day football operations, having previously worked with the club in a consultancy capacity.

He was heavily involved in establishing the talent identification and recruitment system which was the foundation of player recruitment in spring / early summer 2014. In addition, Ashton led the project that enabled the club to secure Category 2 status for the Academy while moving it to its present home at SGS College, Filton.

He left that temporary role to lead the group which acquired Oxford United and became the club’s CEO in the first half of 2014.

Since this time he has been widely credited with overhauling the League Two club’s operations and putting in place new controls, player recruitment and talent identification systems.

City majority shareholder Steve Lansdown said: “We made sure we didn’t lose contact with Mark after he had done such an excellent job for us in establishing the systems which were used to such good effect in the 2014 summer transfer window.

“We are delighted we have managed to persuade him to join us again, this time on a permanent basis. This appointment is a further step in our long-term strategy to build the best on and off the pitch specialist expertise across our whole group.”

Ashton said: “I’m excited to be back at Ashton Gate and joining the club at such an important time in its history. I’m looking forward to leading the club and building on the work I initiated a couple of years ago.

Now now, no need for name calling.

As to your point...

Consultancy is not control, it is bringing expertise to the table with a view of helping to improve things. By the looks of it, his expertise (this is the purpose of consultancy) was talent identification and recruitment. It appears that he stopped being a consultant in 2014 (it was temporary, as you've kindly highlighted) and returned for the 'full time' position in 2016 as the chief operating officer. So, he had nothing to do with the club from 2014-16. It is not clear if the 'talent identification and recruitment' was just players or if it involved such things has coaching/management (this gives people an opportunity to blame him for everything)?

Now if you read your cut and paste, it says:
He was heavily involved in establishing the talent identification and recruitment system which was the foundation of player recruitment in spring / early summer 2014.
Just how did 2014 turn into 2013 in your mind?
Come on, help everyone to understand your reasoning on this.
Another cut and paste, if it is available, should help here.
Or did you just make it up?

In this posting, the general gist of your point appears to be conspiracy i.e. take a sprinkling of truth, mix it with a hefty dose of BS, leaving it to others to try and figure out which is which, in the hope that some of the BS will stick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BigTone said:

Can't argue with that. It would have been when he was CEO of Tactical Change. Doesn't alter the fact that laying all of the clubs ills at Ashtons feet is total bollocks.

BT, you are right, you can't argue with facts.

Look at the dates i.e. 2014 and the word 'temporary'. The cut and paste nicely provided by numpty bollocks (I can engage in name calling too) indicates he was here temporarily on a consultancy basis early 2014, left to Join Oxford in 2014, and then returned 2016. Nothing else, other than normal press release announcements.

Others are trying to extend this to 2013 (and maybe trying to indicate other times as well).
Just why would they want to do that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, BigTone said:

You sure about that ?  According to Ashtons linkedin profile he joined City in 2016. According to Wikipedia McInnes was manager for City from 2011-2013. 

100% certain Tone. 
I worked with him at the time. That’s how I know. 

2 hours ago, bcfcfinker said:

 

Is Trump influencing your thinking?
Has the Illuminati taken hold of City?
Is Ike a 'consultant' to the conspiracies that regularly frequent otib?

Just at what time is your ability to think suspended, just to create some theory that supports your beliefs?

 

29 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

Now now, no need for name calling.

As to your point...

Consultancy is not control, it is bringing expertise to the table with a view of helping to improve things. By the looks of it, his expertise (this is the purpose of consultancy) was talent identification and recruitment. It appears that he stopped being a consultant in 2014 (it was temporary, as you've kindly highlighted) and returned for the 'full time' position in 2016 as the chief operating officer. So, he had nothing to do with the club from 2014-16. It is not clear if the 'talent identification and recruitment' was just players or if it involved such things has coaching/management (this gives people an opportunity to blame him for everything)?

Now if you read your cut and paste, it says:
He was heavily involved in establishing the talent identification and recruitment system which was the foundation of player recruitment in spring / early summer 2014.
Just how did 2014 turn into 2013 in your mind?
Come on, help everyone to understand your reasoning on this.
Another cut and paste, if it is available, should help here.
Or did you just make it up?

In this posting, the general gist of your point appears to be conspiracy i.e. take a sprinkling of truth, mix it with a hefty dose of BS, leaving it to others to try and figure out which is which, in the hope that some of the BS will stick.

No conspiracy sir. 
And the dates and content in that article are a piece of club propaganda. 
He was employed as a “consultant” during the whole of 2012. 
He was in charge of recruitment at that time, but was also essentially putting in place the ‘recruitment database’, which in short, was basically bringing in Wyscout at a cost, and hiring his own ‘analysts’ to review the data. 
The system had nothing to do with the recruitment of summer 14 under Cotterill, as Cotterill basically had no time for it and was his own man demanding his own players. He paid no mind to Ashton’s philosophies. 
Likewise SOD didn’t bother with it when he arrived, preferring to use his own contacts rather than Ashton’s analysts, which I know for a fact SOD described as useless wet wipes. 
I know these things because I was there, and regularly in touch with the managers of the time and the Head Scout of the time. 
 

Ashton had absolutely zero influence in the 2014 recruitment, but on his return to the club in 2016 the club obviously utilised this as propaganda. Ashton was, for absolute fact, responsible for recruitment in 2012 when McInnes was here. By the time SOD arrived, Ashton had left but his analysts were still here - and as I said earlier, I know exactly what the opinion of them was from SOD, Cotterill, Pemberton & Burt through my own personal discussions with these people. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin
1 hour ago, Dan24 said:

Bigger name is working out well for Forest isn't it. Almost as if we're not just outside the play-offs with 10 first team players unavailable. Have a day off.

Forest are a poor example to compare with, they've been a club in free fall for years

10 unavailable, I'd say Mawson, Da Silva, Patterson and Weimann would start 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

 


Or did you just make it up?

 

You"ll have read Harry's post by now which confirms Ashton's prior involvement going back well before 2014.

I'm not sure why you keep saying conspiracy,  I simply pointed out that MA was at AG as a consultant long before he became an employee as COO/CEO.

Nothing has been made up. Just facts which can't be disputed.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Harry said:

100% certain Tone. 
I worked with him at the time. That’s how I know. 

 

No conspiracy sir. 
And the dates and content in that article are a piece of club propaganda. 
He was employed as a “consultant” during the whole of 2012. 
He was in charge of recruitment at that time, but was also essentially putting in place the ‘recruitment database’, which in short, was basically bringing in Wyscout at a cost, and hiring his own ‘analysts’ to review the data. 
The system had nothing to do with the recruitment of summer 14 under Cotterill, as Cotterill basically had no time for it and was his own man demanding his own players. He paid no mind to Ashton’s philosophies. 
Likewise SOD didn’t bother with it when he arrived, preferring to use his own contacts rather than Ashton’s analysts, which I know for a fact SOD described as useless wet wipes. 
I know these things because I was there, and regularly in touch with the managers of the time and the Head Scout of the time. 
 

Ashton had absolutely zero influence in the 2014 recruitment, but on his return to the club in 2016 the club obviously utilised this as propaganda. Ashton was, for absolute fact, responsible for recruitment in 2012 when McInnes was here. By the time SOD arrived, Ashton had left but his analysts were still here - and as I said earlier, I know exactly what the opinion of them was from SOD, Cotterill, Pemberton & Burt through my own personal discussions with these people. 

At least CR made an attempt to bring some verifiable facts to his argument and failed when it was put under scrutiny.

When someone starts introducing the words 'fact', 'propoganda', 'I know' etc., any reader who cares to pause and think what is being said can get the salt grinder out.

As to the personal involvement with people, it all points to someone who has a personal axe to grind rather than someone who is taking a unemotional, clear eyed approach to our current situation.

But hey ho, do keep it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

You"ll have read Harry's post by now which confirms Ashton's prior involvement going back well before 2014.

I'm not sure why you keep saying conspiracy,  I simply pointed out that MA was at AG as a consultant long before he became an employee as COO/CEO.

Nothing has been made up. Just facts which can't be disputed.

 

 

 

You provided a verifiable post and when put on the spot, instead of answering for yourself, you ask me to start chasing another posters delusion to prove your point.

Have you thought about answering for yourself?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Gert Mare said:

Like it or not the main priorities are self-sustainability and profitability. Promotion to the Premier League would be a bonus. City are now an established Championship club and have produced and sold players for a healthy profit. In terms of what has been required and achieved from a business perspective it’s happy days. The problem from a football perspective is that the quality of what is coming through during this current transition is unlikely to produce the same level of profit.

Whatever changes are made in the future the business model will not change. The investment continues to be made in the infrastructure to attract the talent of the future that can be nurtured and given the opportunity to find a way into the first team. Then as soon as they are established and playing well the club will seek a return on the investment.

Adjustments will be made to help keep the club in the Championship with experienced players from elsewhere, but the bank won’t be broken to bring them in, plus the club will still have to navigate the rules of FFP.

It’s not just as black and white as fans want it to be. 

This season we are also blighted by many injuries to key players. On the treatment table they might be, but their wages still have to be paid.

On the pitch we are struggling mainly by the lack of available players and unfortunately we are having to rely on players either out of form or simply not experienced enough or up to Championship standard.

Spot on, the focus is on financial sustainability & rightly so but this is only achievable through sale of players.

However, that is only properly sustainable with more players being developed and showcasing them in a team that plays good football.

Based on the current squad and the playing style it will be difficult to maintain the rate of sale and we will become financially unsustainable.

The club should have invested in higher calibre coaches to built the investment in youth and ensure it pays off.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

You provided a verifiable post and when put on the spot, instead of answering for yourself, you ask me to start chasing another posters delusion to prove your point.

Have you thought about answering for yourself?

I've genuinely no idea what you mean.  I said MA was here as a consultant well before Cotterill and Harry confirmed it.

If you choose not to believe someone who worked with the recruitment dept in a scouting capacity during that period then I don't know what will.p

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, havanatopia said:

No wonder a bigger name would not touch the club with a barge pole then. !!

Imagine telling Eddie... Here's your list mate go pick a couple. Fanciful.?

Well perhaps but a lot of clubs outside of this country do something similar? I remember reading about Lyon a while ago and they had a committee of 7 (7!) who decided which player to go for. At the time they won the French league every year, were competitive in Europe and still sold many players for huge profits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

No he didn’t - He compiles a list of targets with the head coach and recruitment group , an ongoing process 

Ive heard him and the head coaches speak many times and consistently about the process, including at length at forums etc

Ok, no problem - my point was that the head coach was never excluded from the process which I think is what you’ve confirmed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, City oz said:

Stevey  mate, there is only one answer to this. “Structural issues” what a joke . We have a world class stadium, great supporters, great cider, we all watch our city players when they have the opportunity to play for their international clubs, we all want prem football. However if you are genuine 3 defeats is not normal for us and its time for the Lansdowns and the other cashed up board members to bite the bullet and pay some serious cash for a real world class manager / coach. 

When I said ‘structural issues emerge’ I meant that some posters raised them but only when results went bad. I don’t think there are any! Not sure I quite agree with you re DH, although I would’ve preferred a more experienced manager. Just think it’s too early to write him off given the decent start he made and the horrendous injury list we have now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, CityCiderEd said:

It always comes to a head after a run of defeats coupled with terrible performances. Whilst we were winning games I usually felt at the end that how the bloody hell did we win that and think how we had a massive slice of good fortune. But that only papers over the cracks and you can't be lucky every week with uninspiring football. Injuries have hit us hard but surely the players in the squad that come in should have a reasonable enough skill set that would allow them to control and pass the ball to their own players, cross a ball properly without continually overhitting or hitting the first man and defending as a unit seeing as they are trained all week as part of their jobs as pros. Perhaps when all the injured players are back we may see an upturn in performances and fortunes because the standard of the current football we've been watching for quite a while has been as dire at home as it has been for the last few years.

Sure, time will tell I guess when those players return.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Okay, so the answer seems to be...

Reappoint Colin Sexton, who in turn can reach out to Eileen Drewrey who, though the power of faith will work a miracle on our sick, lame and suspended.

The power of Colin and Eileen will see the Malabo part, and in walk the manager to lead us to the promised land. Spending big on superhuman players who are immune to pain.

All of this will be funded by a pixie who followed a star whilst riding aloft a rainbow unicorn, keeping us well withing FFP rules and not needing us to sell Marina Dolman's Rolls Royce to a shady 3rd party, buying it back again and then reselling it for parts.

Yes!

Clearly the problem at the club must be Maggie L, so far she is the only person who hasn't been blamed. And if she hadn't been so quick to stuck every painting Jon had done on the fridge door, we would never have had the comic sans or centenary master piece.

The funds we could have generated with proper kits would have paid for the Liverpool side to have torn up their contracts and signed for us, where promotion would have been achieved by Christmas and everyone would be happy.

Nah, I just don’t think you’re having enough fag breaks during games!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bcfcfinker said:

You provided a verifiable post and when put on the spot, instead of answering for yourself, you ask me to start chasing another posters delusion to prove your point.

Have you thought about answering for yourself?

So you are telling @Harrythat his first hand knowledge is a delusion because it doesn't suit your view?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, chinapig said:

So given he is man with most of the power would you accept he should be the most accountable?

No, because he isn't. If you read some of the posts on here from those with "substantial in the know knowledge" of club business you would understand this. Please keep up old sock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, BigTone said:

No, because he isn't. If you read some of the posts on here from those with "substantial in the know knowledge" of club business you would understand this. Please keep up old sock.

I'm not clear on your point. The official club statement was unequivocal: he controls all day to day football matters. Which makes him the employee with most power.

Are you perhaps referring to SL being the ultimate authority? He is of course but is unlikely to sack himself.

Otherwise I don't see who has more power. Perhaps because I am an old sock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'm not clear on your point. The official club statement was unequivocal: he controls all day to day football matters. Which makes him the employee with most power.

Are you perhaps referring to SL being the ultimate authority? He is of course but is unlikely to sack himself.

Otherwise I don't see who has more power. Perhaps because I am an old sock.

Read the posts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, chinapig said:

So you are telling @Harrythat his first hand knowledge is a delusion because it doesn't suit your view?

There are plenty of people on otib who claim to be in the know. And when pushed further for 'proof', the general response is 'trust me' or 'I've been right in the past', and believing that is enough 'proof' (conveniently skipping over the inconvenient truths of when they've been wrong). This is the typical MO of a tabloid journalist and I don't trust them as far as I could throw them.

I don't know @Harry. He might be a nice fella who has genuine first hand knowledge of City or he could be some anonymous WUM who knows how to push the buttons of angry people who will hang on his every word because what he says supports their personal views.

Come on @Harry, out your self. Come out of the closet and tell us how you've got all of the juicy gossip.
I'd understand why you'd be reluctant to do this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Read the posts

I have, but I'm interested in your view. In referring to the club's statement on his appointment you said :

Can't argue with that. It would have been when he was CEO of Tactical Change. Doesn't alter the fact that laying all of the clubs ills at Ashtons feet is total bollocks.

Which doesn't tell me where you think the responsibility lies and why the employee with the most authority shouldn't be most accountable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, bcfcfinker said:

There are plenty of people on otib who claim to be in the know. And when pushed further for 'proof', the general response is 'trust me' or 'I've been right in the past', and believing that is enough 'proof' (conveniently skipping over the inconvenient truths of when they've been wrong). This is the typical MO of a tabloid journalist and I don't trust them as far as I could throw them.

I don't know @Harry. He might be a nice fella who has genuine first hand knowledge of City or he could be some anonymous WUM who knows how to push the buttons of angry people who will hang on his every word because what he says supports their personal views.

Come on @Harry, out your self. Come out of the closet and tell us how you've got all of the juicy gossip.
I'd understand why you'd be reluctant to do this.

Did you read his post, where he explained exactly what his first hand experience was? You can't get more in the know than working with the people involved I would think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I have, but I'm interested in your view. In referring to the club's statement on his appointment you said :

Can't argue with that. It would have been when he was CEO of Tactical Change. Doesn't alter the fact that laying all of the clubs ills at Ashtons feet is total bollocks.

Which doesn't tell me where you think the responsibility lies and why the employee with the most authority shouldn't be most accountable.

Does Ashton pick the team ?  And please don't respond with the old "no but he picked the manager" line because it is frankly tiresome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'm not clear on your point. The official club statement was unequivocal: he controls all day to day football matters. Which makes him the employee with most power.

Are you perhaps referring to SL being the ultimate authority? He is of course but is unlikely to sack himself.

Otherwise I don't see who has more power. Perhaps because I am an old sock.

The little distortions that you've introduced:
You said: '... he controls all day to day football matters. Which makes him the employee with most power'
What was actually announced was: 'Ashton assumes control of all day-to-day football operations...'

You distorted the announcement so things aren't as 'unequivocal' as you claim, but actually subtle changes that then allow you to create some illusion of an all mighty Mark Ashton mwah ha ha.

I think the old sock has a typo by the way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...