Diedhiou contract

[redrob]

9 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Being honest, as things stand & after his performance against Villa, I think there’s more chance of Palmer being gone before Diedhiou, even with his contract situation.

My one concern I currently have with DH in charge (And I actually expected the appointment from the beginning & have absolutely no issue with it), is that he is going to be too rigid with this 3-5-2 formation, so Paterson or Palmer (if he’s still here) being played in say a more 3-5-1-1 is unlikely. With the current situation of only really having the 3 central defenders, he’d rather play Rowe in the back 3 or Bakinson in there rather than playing a formation that would suit what players he has available.

There are ways of playing a 4 at the back without destroying the 3 central midfielders that he seems to prefer or is this formation built around the 3 central defenders & the rest of the team built around that? (I initially thought it was the 3 central midfielders so that he could fit Walsh & Morrell into the team without leaving them exposed) but now I’m not so sure because of his insistence of playing whoever he can to keep the 3 at the back & I fear that this could be a problem further down the line.

But I guess this is a different subject I’ve gone into now?

Personally I prefer DH to say this is the basis of our style (MA might call it our DNA). And I want players in the door who fit that style of play but who give me the flexibility to change the way a particular player focuses in that style (eg how Palmer was pushed further forward against Northampton and how at half time on Sunday Bakinson was asked to adapt his approach). At the moment I think this benefits the players who have not known if they are coming or going one week to the next in terms of what style or tactics we will adopt against teams. 

 

I like the way others put it when LJ was chopping and changing because of who we were playing in that 'for goodness sake can we not go out and play our brand of football and try to force the opposition to adapt to us rather than we always try to adapt to the opposition?' 

 

I think back to arguably what in recent times were our most successful periods and this is exactly what we did. 

In 07/08 under GJ we impressed our style of play on the opposition by running and passing them off the park. 

Under SC in getting promoted from L1 we had a style and set of base tactics which we looked to impose upon games. 

Under LJ in our run to the League Cup semi finals we adopted a high press with false 9s and (maybe through lack of options) 4 CBS across the back. Look where that got us until we ran out of steam a bit and LJ started playing around with it. 

Sure a time will come when we need the flexibility but I am not sure the likes of Famara and Elliasson fit in with the base style/tactics enough to warrant being in the squad on the wages they'll be on for the odd time we want to change approach and go to a more traditional 442 or 451 like we often did under LJ with Fam up top (perhaps on his own) and Elliasson out wide with an out and out LB covering his defensive frailties. 

[Tipps69]

22 minutes ago, redrob said:

Personally I prefer DH to say this is the basis of our style (MA might call it our DNA). And I want players in the door who fit that style of play but who give me the flexibility to change the way a particular player focuses in that style (eg how Palmer was pushed further forward against Northampton and how at half time on Sunday Bakinson was asked to adapt his approach). At the moment I think this benefits the players who have not known if they are coming or going one week to the next in terms of what style or tactics we will adopt against teams. 

 

I like the way others put it when LJ was chopping and changing because of who we were playing in that 'for goodness sake can we not go out and play our brand of football and try to force the opposition to adapt to us rather than we always try to adapt to the opposition?' 

 

I think back to arguably what in recent times were our most successful periods and this is exactly what we did. 

In 07/08 under GJ we impressed our style of play on the opposition by running and passing them off the park. 

Under SC in getting promoted from L1 we had a style and set of base tactics which we looked to impose upon games. 

Under LJ in our run to the League Cup semi finals we adopted a high press with false 9s and (maybe through lack of options) 4 CBS across the back. Look where that got us until we ran out of steam a bit and LJ started playing around with it. 

Sure a time will come when we need the flexibility but I am not sure the likes of Famara and Elliasson fit in with the base style/tactics enough to warrant being in the squad on the wages they'll be on for the odd time we want to change approach and go to a more traditional 442 or 451 like we often did under LJ with Fam up top (perhaps on his own) and Elliasson out wide with an out and out LB covering his defensive frailties. 

Maybe it’s just how ya as fans have perceived it? DH has only stated in public that he wants to play 3-5-2, maybe he has told the squad that we will adapt when required but if he isn’t going to do it against a League One club in the early rounds of a cup competition when we don’t have the ideal players to play that formation, then when will he change that base tactic?

Technically, I guess that formation only really leaves Eliasson & O’Dowda feeling like they have no place in the squad (as they really aren’t wing-backs), O’Dowda has already tried adapting to be able to play centre-midfield but with the current over balance in that position, I can’t see him getting an opportunity in there either.

So where would that leave us with being able to adopt a different formation? With technically no wide-midfielders / wingers? Unable to play wing-backs will leave us with no width? 
I just have a feeling that we will be putting all our eggs in one basket.

I want us to have our own identity & I want us to be able to play our own way to get the result but there are times when you have to admit that our style isn’t going to work & that we might have to change to give ourselves a chance, after all, we’re not Liverpool or such like where we can expect to beat every team.

Currently it’s not a big problem but teams can seldom go through a whole season without needing to change tactics or formation. We will need a Plan B & even maybe a Plan C, it’s only natural surely?

[Davefevs]

@Tipps69 the view I’ve often expressed is that Plan B & C don’t have to be far removed from Plan A.

Holden’s interview with GT was music to my ears.  Talk of a CB pushing into midfield if it’s 3 v 1.  Talk of going a bit more direct to go over the top of an opposition high press.

For me there lies a head-coach who sees simpler answers to problems than ripping up the system like LJ did.

In this season’s games we’ve seen that problem solving go unnoticed by the average fan (and possibly opposition manager too).

With regards to Fam, I’m sure DH would love to keep him around, he gives us a different option.  But if there budget constraints I would expect him to be one of the candidates to try to move on.  I think the same applies to others.

I suspect a few players might be having quite frank discussions with DH over the next week, as they must be wondering where they are gonna get their minutes from going forward.

[Tipps69]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Tipps69 the view I’ve often expressed is that Plan B & C don’t have to be far removed from Plan A.

Holden’s interview with GT was music to my ears.  Talk of a CB pushing into midfield if it’s 3 v 1.  Talk of going a bit more direct to go over the top of an opposition high press.

For me there lies a head-coach who sees simpler answers to problems than ripping up the system like LJ did.

In this season’s games we’ve seen that problem solving go unnoticed by the average fan (and possibly opposition manager too).

With regards to Fam, I’m sure DH would love to keep him around, he gives us a different option.  But if there budget constraints I would expect him to be one of the candidates to try to move on.  I think the same applies to others.

I suspect a few players might be having quite frank discussions with DH over the next week, as they must be wondering where they are gonna get their minutes from going forward.

Oh yeah, I get that but moving forward, I’ve got to be honest, I’m not enamoured by the idea of Rowe playing centre-half in a league game, so as things currently stand where would that leave us? Of course, we may get lucky & find ourselves with Kalas back & no injuries or suspensions to worry about

As regards the rest of the squad wondering where they might get minutes? I don’t think the majority will be too bothered, especially in the current climate. They are guaranteed their wages here, which is something that can’t be said for a fair few Championship clubs & below. And with a fair few out of contract next summer, I can see some being happy to let their contracts wind down & walk away for nothing next summer if they haven’t been given a chance here.

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Oh yeah, I get that but moving forward, I’ve got to be honest, I’m not enamoured by the idea of Rowe playing centre-half in a league game, so as things currently stand where would that leave us? Of course, we may get lucky & find ourselves with Kalas back & no injuries or suspensions to worry about

As regards the rest of the squad wondering where they might get minutes? I don’t think the majority will be too bothered, especially in the current climate. They are guaranteed their wages here, which is something that can’t be said for a fair few Championship clubs & below. And with a fair few out of contract next summer, I can see some being happy to let their contracts wind down & walk away for nothing next summer if they haven’t been given a chance here.

I guess we need to understand whether it’s a something we take the risk of trying to get through to Xmas, or whether the Baldwin’s and Towler’s ready for that risk.  Or do you hastily go into the out of contract market....which is probably gonna be a larger pool than normal, albeit no guarantee of quality.  Williams was a good recruit last year, but can’t be sure this year.

Once the international break is over plus window ended we will know much more.  There are 18 league matches before the window re-opens, 19 realistically with Brentford on 2nd Jan...and then a gap til PNE on 16th Jan.

We are light for CBs, but we also have Baker back, so bringing someone in has ramifications too.  Who’s be a manager.

It’s more the players on longer contracts like Palmer, O’Dowda and Nagy that are more concerning to me.

[AshtonRobin21]

Contract news incoming...... 

[Will b11]

What’s happening with him then , Holden says there’s more contract news to come and with the international window closing on Monday will he still be here or be gone , what do people think ? .

[Tipps69]

16 minutes ago, Will b11 said:

What’s happening with him then , Holden says there’s more contract news to come and with the international window closing on Monday will he still be here or be gone , what do people think ? .

To be honest, it doesn’t really bother me in the slightest, if he stays great, the four strikers it would leave us with would give us great options should we need them & if he goes, it saves a little bit of money but we won’t get anything ground breaking in terms of football finances.

For what it’s worth, I still expect him to sign a new contract but that’s with no inside information.

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

To be honest, it doesn’t really bother me in the slightest, if he stays great, the four strikers it would leave us with would give us great options should we need them & if he goes, it saves a little bit of money but we won’t get anything ground breaking in terms of football finances.

For what it’s worth, I still expect him to sign a new contract but that’s with no inside information.

I don’t see what he gains (football wise) from signing a new contract. If everyone’s fit , he doesn’t start as Martin is a much better player for the system we play. He doesn’t suit playing in a two as he doesn’t seem to forge partnerships with anyone. A lot of money for us to lay out on a contract for a player that won’t play as much as before. 

[Tipps69]

43 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I don’t see what he gains (football wise) from signing a new contract. If everyone’s fit , he doesn’t start as Martin is a much better player for the system we play. He doesn’t suit playing in a two as he doesn’t seem to forge partnerships with anyone. A lot of money for us to lay out on a contract for a player that won’t play as much as before. 

And where was he after 5 games of last season? And where did he finish last season?

What happens now can be very different to what happens between now & May, there are still 43 league games to go!

By signing his new contract I assume he gets to stay at club he’s happy at, in a city he seemingly loves while probably getting himself a pay rise. The grass isn’t always greener elsewhere & with the current financial situation, he could move to another club that aren’t as stable as us & suddenly find he’s not getting paid at the end of the month.

I’d suggest there’s a lot to gain from signing a new contract here but if he isn’t going to get that pay rise & he isn’t happy at the club or in the city then I guess he would be pushing for a move, which by all accounts he isn’t.

[steviestevieneville]

9 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

And where was he after 5 games of last season? And where did he finish last season?

What happens now can be very different to what happens between now & May, there are still 43 league games to go!

By signing his new contract I assume he gets to stay at club he’s happy at, in a city he seemingly loves while probably getting himself a pay rise. The grass isn’t always greener elsewhere & with the current financial situation, he could move to another club that aren’t as stable as us & suddenly find he’s not getting paid at the end of the month.

I’d suggest there’s a lot to gain from signing a new contract here but if he isn’t going to get that pay rise & he isn’t happy at the club or in the city then I guess he would be pushing for a move, which by all accounts he isn’t.

Completely different to last season imo . The way Holden sets up doesn’t suit fam imo , he doesn’t bring our midfield into the game the way Martin does. I’m looking at it more from a club perspective really. If we got a few million for him , that could well go towards the financial deficit we’ll face due to covid , plus I don’t think we have to replace him. If he stays , he stays . It bother me if he went either though .  

[Tipps69]

16 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Completely different to last season imo . The way Holden sets up doesn’t suit fam imo , he doesn’t bring our midfield into the game the way Martin does. I’m looking at it more from a club perspective really. If we got a few million for him , that could well go towards the financial deficit we’ll face due to covid , plus I don’t think we have to replace him. If he stays , he stays . It bother me if he went either though .  

Diedhiou didn’t necessarily get back into the team last season because of his own ability, he got in because of an injury to the player who came in & took his place.

And even after Afobe’s injury, LJ seemed to prefer to give Semenyo the opportunity ahead of Diedhiou but within a few weeks / months Diedhiou was back in the team & he basically stayed there & even went on to win our player of the year!

And this season we are looking at playing two strikers every game where as last season it was predominantly one so an injury to Wells or Martin (or both) & a suspension & we’ll be looking for who’s playing up front & hoping Semenyo is able to perform consistently at a level that he hasn’t managed before which I would suggest is far from ideal, especially if we’ve cashed in on Diedhiou for about £2m (seeing as that’s the rumoured fee for Eliasson & their contracts run out at the same time), so would it really be worth being left short upfront because we might get £2m? I’d suggest not & as games will be coming thick & fast this season because of the later start to the season, injuries & suspensions aren’t beyond the realms of a possibility.

And I’m sure you still remember back to the winter of the 2007 season when we were doing ok & we were all crying out for us to strengthen up front so that we gave ourselves every opportunity to get promoted? We didn’t exactly strengthen & ended up fading away, I wouldn’t like to see us throw another opportunity away.

It’s easy for me to say as it’s obviously not my money but I’d rather keep Diedhiou, even if he isn’t going to sign his new contract rather than pocket about £2m! The potential rewards far outweigh that sort of transfer fee.

[redsquirrel]

he is also good at defending corners should we get more problems at the back

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

Diedhiou didn’t necessarily get back into the team last season because of his own ability, he got in because of an injury to the player who came in & took his place.

And even after Afobe’s injury, LJ seemed to prefer to give Semenyo the opportunity ahead of Diedhiou but within a few weeks / months Diedhiou was back in the team & he basically stayed there & even went on to win our player of the year!

And this season we are looking at playing two strikers every game where as last season it was predominantly one so an injury to Wells or Martin (or both) & a suspension & we’ll be looking for who’s playing up front & hoping Semenyo is able to perform consistently at a level that he hasn’t managed before which I would suggest is far from ideal, especially if we’ve cashed in on Diedhiou for about £2m (seeing as that’s the rumoured fee for Eliasson & their contracts run out at the same time), so would it really be worth being left short upfront because we might get £2m? I’d suggest not & as games will be coming thick & fast this season because of the later start to the season, injuries & suspensions aren’t beyond the realms of a possibility.

And I’m sure you still remember back to the winter of the 2007 season when we were doing ok & we were all crying out for us to strengthen up front so that we gave ourselves every opportunity to get promoted? We didn’t exactly strengthen & ended up fading away, I wouldn’t like to see us throw another opportunity away.

It’s easy for me to say as it’s obviously not my money but I’d rather keep Diedhiou, even if he isn’t going to sign his new contract rather than pocket about £2m! The potential rewards far outweigh that sort of transfer fee.

Yes , I know how the season panned  out mate , I watched it. 
Fam won player of the year on the back of his improved performances since Christmas + a lack of any real competition. What I’ve stated twice now , is he doesn’t really suit the way we play as he doesn’t forge any partnerships with other strikers and his hold up play is nowhere that of martins . I get the numbers thing ie strikers but I’m sure the club would like to get some money back on him if possible . Like I said if he goes he goes , if he doesn’t he doesn’t. 
With Williams nearly fit as a box to box  midfielder , that also frees up wiemann to play up top. That’s still four strikers . 

[Dolman_Stand]

45 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

he is also good at defending corners should we get more problems at the back

He is but if we are resorting to picking strikers on the basis of their defensive abilities from set pieces it highlights bigger issues in the team

[Swede]

5 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Yes , I know how the season panned  out mate , I watched it. 
Fam won player of the year on the back of his improved performances since Christmas + a lack of any real competition. What I’ve stated twice now , is he doesn’t really suit the way we play as he doesn’t forge any partnerships with other strikers and his hold up play is nowhere that of martins . I get the numbers thing ie strikers but I’m sure the club would like to get some money back on him if possible . Like I said if he goes he goes , if he doesn’t he doesn’t. 
With Williams nearly fit as a box to box  midfielder , that also frees up wiemann to play up top. That’s still four strikers . 

This is a great point. Afobe pre injury showed the way we need to play to get to the next level. If you look at the contribution Chris Martin has made since arriving it only highlights it even more.

[Tipps69]

23 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Yes , I know how the season panned  out mate , I watched it. 
Fam won player of the year on the back of his improved performances since Christmas + a lack of any real competition. What I’ve stated twice now , is he doesn’t really suit the way we play as he doesn’t forge any partnerships with other strikers and his hold up play is nowhere that of martins . I get the numbers thing ie strikers but I’m sure the club would like to get some money back on him if possible . Like I said if he goes he goes , if he doesn’t he doesn’t. 
With Williams nearly fit as a box to box  midfielder , that also frees up wiemann to play up top. That’s still four strikers . 

Ok, no need to discuss it any further obviously.

[steviestevieneville]

20 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

Ok, no need to discuss it any further obviously.

Don’t want rake over old coals and this is slightly off tangent but , it’s quite interesting what pato says on the in-house interview with him. Talking about Chris Martin and his hold up play. I’m paraphrasing slightly but he says. “He’s got such good quality , when it goes into him that I’ll make runs off him because I know it’ll come back with quality.

This is the main reason fam won’t get a look in as long as martins fit.

[mozo]

21 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

he is also good at defending corners should we get more problems at the back

With Bakinson and Martin adding height and physicality, and potentially Williams coming in to midfield too, I think we're much better placed to defend set-pieces now. Those 3 added to 3 CDs and we're not the pushovers that we used to be.

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

With Bakinson and Martin adding height and physicality, and potentially Williams coming in to midfield too, I think we're much better placed to defend set-pieces now. Those 3 added to 3 CDs and we're not the pushovers that we used to be.

 

Martin has assumed the role of attacking the set piece to the near post.

[BLRed]

I see nothing but a fam sale. There has been no reason not to sign a new deal unless he is waiting for offers from elsewhere. Reckon we’ll be forced to accept a pitiful offer on deadline day or lose him for nothing. Something is better than nothing when we have Martin, Wells, weimann and semenyo who are all good enough. Semenyo already with 4 assists and a goal this season.

bye fam and thanks for the effort and memories but time to move on.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

I see nothing but a fam sale. There has been no reason not to sign a new deal unless he is waiting for offers from elsewhere. Reckon we’ll be forced to accept a pitiful offer on deadline day or lose him for nothing. Something is better than nothing when we have Martin, Wells, weimann and semenyo who are all good enough. Semenyo already with 4 assists and a goal this season.

bye fam and thanks for the effort and memories but time to move on.

It’s telling that Semenyo has come on as sub ahead of Diedhiou in the last couple of games.  If Holden was trying to convince him to sign then he’s not doing it by giving him “sympathy minutes”.

[Meh]

Fam has never shown he can play in a two whilst Wells, Martin and Semenyo have shown they can with quick, fluid movement.

In the meantime we have Wiemann who brings that ability to do some sort of job in several positions and can start in midfield but switch to forward position if needed.

Fam has been a great servant and he is such a nice guy but I feel he needs to go for whatever we can get.

It frees up space on the bench for broader options particularly when 3 of the remaining 4 forwards are currently starting. 

[Wolf Island]

I can see him going to Al-Rayyan or another big Middle East club maybe

[DT The Optimist]

Well !  Wilder says that £20 Million will only buy you a teenager !  

Well BCFC can save you some Wonga here !  Bristol City have a striker in his prime at a bargain  and i reckon you might prise him away for a bargain £15M !  Fill your boots Blades &  Mr Wilder 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/54387864

[Magicdaps]

Odd display from the bench from Fam.  Looked disinterested for the first time that I can remember.

[ReggyRed]

Not sure you can judge him on a ten minutes we were under the cosh. Made a couple great defensive headers

[BCFC Rich]

6 minutes ago, ReggyRed said:

Not sure you can judge him on a ten minutes we were under the cosh. Made a couple great defensive headers

Agree. One of the only times we got the ball to his feet in an attacking area he had 4 defenders around him and no passing options. Didn't do a lot, but given how the game was going when he came on he didn't really have a chance to. + As you say some really good defensive work. 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

33 minutes ago, Magicdaps said:

Odd display from the bench from Fam.  Looked disinterested for the first time that I can remember.

Won a great defensive header within 30 seconds of coming on.

[Magicdaps]

24 minutes ago, ReggyRed said:

Not sure you can judge him on a ten minutes we were under the cosh. Made a couple great defensive headers

Less of a judgement and more of an observation.  Fam is certainly in credit when it comes to such matters so to be clear no aspertions are being cast.  One thing you can normally guarantee with Fam is blood, thunder and endeavour and it was noticeably lacking today IMHO.  Granted it was over a pretty small sample size in circumstances that were hardly ideal when we were swimming against the tide but perhaps that why it was no noticeable as normally he'd be tireless and relentless in those kind of scenarios.  That's the one thing you could always pretty much guarantee with him.